Anwig Salade

[Armando]

Re: Anwig Salade

The pet haste is worthless because you just can't get enough of it on them (unless you're a PUP with a turbo charger, then it's absolutely worth it but this is a BST thread)

No. It's still 5% more pet damage. The difference is that if your pet magically had 15% Haste to start with, then adding 5% more haste increases the pet's damage by 9% instead of 5%. Regardless, I don't know what world you live in but in my book 5% more damage and TP gain is not something that can be dismissed as worthless.

Whether that's better than increasing your own damage is another topic entirely and depends on the situation and the pet job in question. BST could increase its own damage by more than 5% with a different augment, but I understand that there are circumstances where it's better to increase the pet's damage than your own due to hate issues when solo.

[Malacite]

Re: Anwig Salade

Where are you pulling 5% damage increase from?

Haste doesn't even start to show any noticeable damage improvements for players until around 22~23% where you're attacking approx 25% faster. Kirschy over at BG made a very detailed chart showing haste progression in effectiveness, and going by that chart 5% on a pet won't do diddly shit.

I'll take pet damage down and the omgwtfpwn WS boost.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Anwig Salade

Where are you pulling 5% damage increase from?

Maybe the fact that the pet is attacking about 5% faster than it was previously?

Haste doesn't even start to show any noticeable damage improvements for players until around 22~23% where you're attacking approx 25% faster.

Okay, A) it takes exactly 20% Haste to attack 1.25 times as fast as your delay, the Haste formula is actually rather simple and has been known for a while now, and B) considering that the pet isn't sacrificing anything significant to get the Haste (like a player choosing a piece of Haste gear over a piece of Accuracy gear, for instance), it's still a straight 5% damage boost no strings attached. The only part that "isn't noticeable" about that are Haste's infamous increasing returns to scale, as 5% (1/20) Haste actually allows one to attack exactly 1/19 times more often, which is obviously nowhere near as drastic a difference as, say, 20% (1/5) Haste for attacking 1/4 times more often.

The only trade-off that's being made is, as has been said already, more pet damage versus more player damage, which is obviously a question of playstyle.

[Malacite]

Re: Anwig Salade

OK fair enough.

I still wouldn't take the pet haste though. The damage down 10% can have *huge* implications for BST, especially when using a kiting strategy (lv 75 C.C. is already a monster when it comes to soaking damage) and yes, there are other options (like O.hat, Maat's cap etc) to swap out for WS gear.

I just don't see the justification for the 5% haste as you can't exactly neglect your own performance for the sake of your pet (unlike PUP and SMN who rely on their pets far more than BST and DRG do in terms of defending themselves or DD)

I'd have to see it in action in all honesty. Admittedly I don't really use my BST a whole lot anymore but I have been 75 for a while now and from my own experiences, I'd rather have more haste, evasion or accuracy on myself if using a charmed pet, or more offensive stats for myself when using a jug as Snarl pretty well assures my safety. Being able to transfer all your enmity instantly is incredibly powerful, and it would be nice if BST could find their way into more end game events because of it.


Also, I'll say it again; I'd love to see a PUP with this and haste augment on Mirke;


Turbo Charger (with 3x wind) is 25%, plus this & Mirke would add up to what, 33%? Wonder how that would compare to Coiler (39~40% DA) with pet DA mods...


hmmm... actually, how would the DA on the pets stack vs Haste? Yes haste beats DA the more you have, but the most you can get from ACP and MKD is 8% if I'm not mistaken, vs around ...



OK nvm crap, there's no pet haste from ACP or any DA from MKD... well so much for that. A decent amount of DA for BST pets would have been interesting to compare because if I'm not mistaken, the DA trumps haste at the very low levels depending on how lucky you get with procs.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Anwig Salade

STR +4, Weaponskill Accuracy +15
Accuracy +3, Pet: Haste 5%

I see this as the way I'm going to go about it. Simple reason is most likely its going to replace wyvern helm and that WS Accuracy +15 kicks the shit out of the wyvern helm for rampage.

Accuracy so I get some smidge of accuracy out of the deal and if I'm going to full time this at the expense of using Walrha Turban, then at least give the pet the Haste since I can still grab a fair bit of Haste elsewhere.

[Armando]

Re: Anwig Salade

I just don't see the justification for the 5% haste as you can't exactly neglect your own performance for the sake of your pet (unlike PUP and SMN who rely on their pets far more than BST and DRG do in terms of defending themselves or DD)

Well that's fine and dandy but remember that some people just want to solo. Sure, I see it as a waste of potential in every other area, but it's not my place to judge their "lifestyle."

OK nvm crap, there's no pet haste from ACP or any DA from MKD... well so much for that. A decent amount of DA for BST pets would have been interesting to compare because if I'm not mistaken, the DA trumps haste at the very low levels depending on how lucky you get with procs.

Nothing ever trumps an equal amount of Haste unless you're working at Flash levels of Accuracy or Lv.60 PUP levels of Attack. Haste is the Alpha and the Omega. DA comes close at low amounts of both, and Crit Rate is tantamount to Attack; the bottom of the barrel.

I should burn you at the stake for doubting the almighty Haste.

[Romyro]

Re: Anwig Salade

Sure, I see it as a waste of potential in every other area, but it's not my place to judge their "lifestyle."

For my 'lifestyle' I don’t really see putting all augments on my pet as a waste. I have a decent melee/ws set but in all honestly, I don’t like to melee much on BST. The majority of NMs I solo or do in our PetLS don’t allow for much meleeing.

Luckily for me I guess, I don’t need to try and satisfy other jobs. I leveled BST, SMN, BRD and almost finished with PUP. Then I'm probably done XPing for a while (with the exception of some sub jobs). I hate playing Brd so I didn’t care to upgrade that job at all. I like Bst slightly more than SMN so I went that route when choosing ACP armor. I happened to notice after the fact that pup can use as well. So double bonus ^^.

Going to stick with it decking out my Bst pets.
My pets/puppets will soon have...

+15 Atk, +15 R.Atk (MW)
+15 Acc, +15 R.Acc (MW)
+30 Def (Tamer, P-shield & Dirs)
+5% Def (Beast Bazubands (not sure if 5% is totally accurate))
+1 Magic Acc (an augmented earring)
-10% Damage (new helm)
+5% Haste (new helm)

All that looks hawt to me ><

I just hope the final mission allows for a Bst to join up. ACP's final mission basically gave Bst the middle finger imo.

[Malacite]

Re: Anwig Salade

I should burn you at the stake for doubting the almighty Haste.

Love you too =3

[Esoa]

Re: Anwig Salade

The pet haste is worthless because you just can't get enough of it on them (unless you're a PUP with a turbo charger, then it's absolutely worth it but this is a BST thread)


I'd go with Option 1 or 2. 4 STR and 15 WS accuracy is godly and can be used on multiple jobs while still specializing for BST. Besides, if you're soloing wouldn't O Hat be better for when you start taking the heat? Or W. Turban for TP/shadows.


EDIT: Just want to reinforce that PUP is the only job with any business taking pet haste from these mini-expansion armors and even then it still fails compared to the other pet buffs. Though I admit it would be interesting to see an automaton hit the haste cap...

Increasing your pet's damage by 5% is useless? Posts like yours make me wonder wtf some people did playing BST to 75. BST has no business making a "hybrid" PT DD hat out of this piece. If you want to use it for another job or compromise that's fine, but you're waaaay off saying 5% pet haste is bad for BST.