pty rant/ethical question

[Pompous]

So I'm lvl 44 and have found that my favorite place to exp at this lvl is the nest beetles in crawlers nest. I tried the other places and simply haven't liked them as much. I realize that this is a common exp pty camp, and have been very courteous about not jumping in and ruining a ptys exp if they were there first. Now here comes what happened yesterday...

I logged on mid-afternoon to try to exp. There was an exp pty there. Nuts. No exp for me now. Oh well, I have other things to do anyway.

I logged on later that night. The camp was open. Huzzah! Now I can exp without feeling like a jerk! I got about 1500 exp, then a pty came running in and camped on top of me. They started pulling mobs and exping like I wasn't there. I talked to the leader and pointed out how I had left earlier so his exp pty could kill stuff without my interference (he was in the pty that afternoon as well). He thanked me, said it would work if we shared and continued pulling. Fine...if sharing works sharing works. We'll see...

Next thing you know there are no mobs for anybody to kill. I managed to get a kill about every 6-7 minutes. Not worthwhile. I decided to defend myself, to see to it that their exp was so bad they would leave and go to Altepa. I started charming any beetle that popped and using it to fight the next beetle that popped. If they get 0 exp they will decide it's best to leave, right?

That's when I started getting /tells and /shs of people telling me to stop being a jerk and leave. Telling me to "learn how to do my job" and so on and so forth. End result: nobody was getting exp and, according to this pty of 6 and their PL, it was all my fault.

I eventually got fed up and logged off.

I see this not as me being a jerk, but as them being a bunch of jerks. They came in and ruined my exp session, then had the gall to insult me for ruining THEIR exp. Sure taking all the beetles was kind of jerky but I was trying to keep what they were trying to ruin.

So here's my question: did I do anything wrong? I see my actions as only defensive trying to coerce them into showing me the same respect I showed them. What are your thoughts?

Sorry this got long, but asking the question would be pointless I didn't give you the information.

[KoukiRyu]

Re: pty rant/ethical question

I don't think you really did anything wrong, I mean you talked to the party leader and everything, and of course things didn't quite work out, I mean it's like 2 parties camping in that small zone, and that doesn't work normally. Although what you did in the end was a little jerky, you were just trying to defend yourself and get them to leave...in the end, I think you weren't doing anything wrong, but maybe could have tried working with the party leader again

[Aeolus]

Re: pty rant/ethical question

I'd say its your fault for assuming a PT wouldnt be like that and exping there anyway.

[avhmia]

Re: pty rant/ethical question

Honestly, the exp PT was in the wrong for camping on you. Personally, though, I don't bother fighting with exp parties over camps. It never works out in the end and always leaves me just feeling rotten.

[Bov]

Re: pty rant/ethical question

If you don't want stuff like this to happen, then don't camp in common party xp locations. Only the kindest most BST-friendly party would not camp on top of you, and they would quickly be replaced by another party.

[eikichi]

Re: pty rant/ethical question

I believe what you did was the right thing to do. Even though you're a 1-man party, you are a party nonetheless. If people camp on top of you and start killing everything, you get more aggressive on pulls. It's the same concept in a regular xp pt.

You shouldn't pay attention to what parties say to you. I find it funny that it's ok that 2 PTs can compete with each other on xp mobs w/o harsh words being /sh'd across the zone. Yet, when a BST enters the area everyone and their mothers' jump on the BST.

[Celeal]

Re: pty rant/ethical question

It is a lose/lose situation for both parties. That camp can support either 2 parties if both are average (below chain 3), or 1 good party (chain 4 ~ 5 most of time). Having a BST claims one mob + fights one, and a party fights one, which result of using 3 mobs at the same time, the camp would "dry" very quickly. I am not saying which side is right or wrong, it is natural that you will say the other party is "stealing" your mob, while the other party will say you are "stealing" their mob. Even for two standard 6-ppl party in this situation, either they respect each other, or you will see /tell + /sh + insult throw across the camp.

[Murphie]

Re: pty rant/ethical question

While you weren't in the wrong here, it's not really a suprising situation. I mean, Crawler's Nest? For serious? I was leveling my WHM through there the past few days, and between other legit parties and the one gimp RMT party that was there 24/7, that camp just wasn't worth it. Thankfully I got one group to move to Gustav (much better exp), and another to Western Alteppa Desert (even better exp - 2 levels in that party).

There are definitely other places that you can go as a BST where you won't have to worry about parties butting in. So while I empathise, you kind of brought the frustration on yourself there.

[tdh]

Re: pty rant/ethical question

I've tried to always be very friendly to BSTs when I see them wandering around doing their thing. I've slowly taken up BST with a friend, and I have a few BST75's in my LS that are really great people, and I respect them immensely. They'll drop what they're doing to come help you do something, and have solo'd AF3 mobs, or Mission NMs quite a few times.

However I have run into problems finding camps due to BSTs, or sharing camps with BSTs. Couple of years ago there still used to be camps that nobody went to except BSTs. So if you went when there weren't any BST around, you could rake in EXP hand over fist. Well now there aren't really any BST only camps because we've all wandered into them and snatched them from under their noses.

The Camp at the Altepa Out Post comes to mind. Goblins by the Oasis there used to be damn near extinct due to BST Duo & Trio parties, but if you could get there when the BSTs were asleep, you can Chain #5 & 6 with no breaks. Now - every time I OP Warp out there, I see two full parties at the OP, and no BST in sight. Where can all the BSTs go these days that aren't already taken?

What gets me is the selfishness of people/parties. OR maybe it's laziness. People go to camp and find that there's already a party there because they didn't search to see how many people were in that area. Go to an area to camp and knowing it's a 1 camp area, and camp there anyway. The mentality of "we'll just force them to leave by killing faster," just astounds me.

[Murphie]

Re: pty rant/ethical question

What gets me is the selfishness of people/parties. OR maybe it's laziness. People go to camp and find that there's already a party there because they didn't search to see how many people were in that area. Go to an area to camp and knowing it's a 1 camp area, and camp there anyway. The mentality of "we'll just force them to leave by killing faster," just astounds me.

This absolutely makes me crazy. And as you mentioned, it's not just with 6 man parties vs. BST. It's everyone vs. everyone. Party leaders don't take the time to search and see how many other parties are in the zone, and rather than move, they just decide to came there as well, and then exp sucks for everyone, and no one has a good night. It's ridiculous.

[Lilani]

Re: pty rant/ethical question

I'm with you on that one, that party was way out of line EXP'ing on top of you. They had no right to brush you aside, and they had to be stupid for trying to camp over a BST.

Most parties I get into avoid being around BSTs, because it hurts both us and the BST. Mobs are gone quickly and everyone is screwed. I don't know what their idea was thinking that if they boot you out it would be better. You were there first, and they should have respected that and left you alone. It is just as bad as forcing an entire party out, if not worse.

My BST is only level 3, but I still have respect for them. It's hard soloing and getting your EXP drained from the pet, unless you want to spend the gil on jugs. It takes a lot of time and patience, and more people need to learn to respect that. BSTs can't just get parties and laze about, relying on others to fix or cover up their mistakes, they have to rely on themselves.

[Esoa]

Re: pty rant/ethical question

I don't get why BST camp in overcrowded zones to begin with. I was in the dunes yesterday and 2 BST were killing in the same area with 2-3 other PT's. Ever hear of buru peninsula? The luxury of being a BST is that you can pretty much go anywhere. In a 6-man PT it's often a huge ordeal to travel and also to replace PT members, which is why people flock to areas like CN, VD, GC, etc.

Yes the PT was wrong but you were simply asking for that situation to occur.

[Xiaran]

Re: pty rant/ethical question

I don't get why BST camp in overcrowded zones to begin with. I was in the dunes yesterday and 2 BST were killing in the same area with 2-3 other PT's. Ever hear of buru peninsula? The luxury of being a BST is that you can pretty much go anywhere. In a 6-man PT it's often a huge ordeal to travel and also to replace PT members, which is why people flock to areas like CN, VD, GC, etc.

Yes the PT was wrong but you were simply asking for that situation to occur.

No reason a party cannot go to there either having to travel is no excuse what so ever, if they are too lazy to go there then they are in the wrong game!

And as a bst you will see this many times so just get on with it, my advice if they want to be nasty to you just use the great tool .... /blacklist add [moaning party guy] i found it to be awesome ^^ then just carry on about your business

[Gman]

Re: pty rant/ethical question

I've always tried to avoid party spots. Sometimes utter lack of leveling spots forced me and my duo partner into party places (GC basement for example), also donut room of CN in the low 50's.

We tried lots of places though, but tried to avoid party level spots if we could. If we did end up in a party area, most times it wasn't really an issue and we made it work. That nest beetle camp is horrible, because there are way too many noobs that can't think out of the box, and are way too lazy. "Oh these workers are giving us teh suxor exp now, lets move to nest beetles... screw the bst" (or screw the other pt leveling there). Like others have said, it's just not worth the hassle to camp in a place like that. It will rarely be deserted, and if it is, it won't be for long. Do yourself a favor and find a new camp.

Places not to camp, IMO:

Valkurm beaches (maybe secret beach if deserted)
Qufim tower, pug canyon
Kahzam entrance
Yhoator (any mandy camp near zone)
East Altep- beetles near zone to W altep
Garilage- near zone, basement stairs
Crawlers nest- ball room (unless liz vs liz), secret room, nest beetle room
Gustav- at bottom of hill
Kuftal - pretty much anywhere theres crabs or RMT
Boyhada - avoid spiders, crabs, crawlers
Terrigan - Caves leading to VoS

At this point you would mostly be targetting different mobs than a party anyway.

Good places to level:

Ordelles
Buburimu
Onzozo
Quicksand caves
SSG
Remote areas of jungles
Terrigan
Banishing gate 2 in GC
Zi'tah
Sky (72+ pick an island and set up camp)
Boyhada (at higher level)
Crawlers nest in exoray hallway (if noone hunting mold)
E Altep outpost (maybe not so hot anymore- parties catching on?)
W altep- pick a spot
Pso Xja (sp?)
Fei'Yen
Ifrit's
Bost (tabkey)
Toramail Canal

Basically anywhere where parties don't often go, that have charmable mobs in your level range. I like somepage.com for it's searchable mob database. Give it a try.

[Aeolus]

Re: pty rant/ethical question

A party that searchs a zone isnt always going to know if a Bst is going to be there. Most Bsts are anon and tbh I simply dont know what lv they should be to exp at what camps, so if I see a 65 bst how am I supposed to know where he is camping in the zone? (Where as with PTs you can pretty much tell if you know the spots). I always search first when Im leader even if its just because I personaly dont want crap exp. If theres a bst exping in a 1 PT area then Im not going to leave because funnily enough every other Bst has managed that lv somewhere else where as more ppl are in PTs and other spots can be heavily over camped as well. My friend is a bst atm and has managed to get to almost 60 very quickly without ever having to exp in a PT spot or compete with other bsts to exp. I know its not fair, I know you have every right to exp where PTs do but I mean its just a waste of your time trying to compete with a PT if one shows up anyway so why bother.