They threw me in jail!

[Eohmer]

Re: They threw me in jail!

Sure, maybe it was harrassment, but who cares? SOMEONE needs to teach jerks a lesson in this game.

I'm sure you would if you got cought doing the same thing...

Do you REALLY think they will "learn" any lesson here?

[Hamlet]

Re: They threw me in jail!

if a party is repeatedly taking Mobs a BST had gotten to 25% HP their intent was clear they were harassing the BST intentionally.

I agree, and I agree that he was harassing the pt in return by holding the mobs.

I think the GM's reasoning, whether conciously or not, was that stealing at least benefits the party, whereas holding the mobs doesn't benefit the bst, it's more clearly done purely for harassment purposes.

[little ninja]

Re: They threw me in jail!

Murph Why does it always have to boil down to the victum walking away from a situation time an time again? An even though this is just a game, what message do i send to another player/players?
Do you in real life practice what you preech? i mean if a bully is tormenting you. do you just walk away in hopes it will stop? That the bully himself will come to his senses? Are you the type who see's it happening to another person, lower your head an keep on moving.

Call it my stubborn belief. but i never let it happen to me much in RL, yeah there were a few times. til i realized there would be no help from outside autorities, an so i had to act on my own behalf. so it probably transfer into the same mentality ingame.

There intend was still obvious from the first mob i fought was when they started it. an i dont know if you guys know this. but you cant get full exp for any mobs you steal from another person. i know in lower lvl parties when they all die, an you nab their mob. you wont get full exp. so im willing to bet they werent even gettin full exp from the mobs i was fighting.

[Kholdstare]

Re: They threw me in jail!

I'm gonna have to side with the OP, though his methods of going about it were less than stellar. the GMs mentioned were completely biased towards BST in general, from the looks of it. They'd probably have jailed you for fighting Aquarius, ffs.

Really, the OP's motivation was not being walked all over, and getting some justice for jackass players. The aforementioned party did it for greed and so they could instigate a fight.

If BST is gonna be the black sheep of FFXI, they're gonna have to do things for themselves, even defending territory and rights. I'd rather be jailed for being too much competition for someone than run off with my tail between my legs.

[little ninja]

Re: They threw me in jail!

I'm sure you would if you got cought doing the same thing...

Do you REALLY think they will "learn" any lesson here?

My friends say after i left, they tele'd out thinking i d/ced. another friend went to take my place to see what would happen. they did nt steal his mobs. was ita dispute they had with me that forced them to do it? or did they now realize that the grey shell of the Bsts was something to not take lightly???

Honestly its a glitch on S.E's part they dont want to fix. When bst first came out there was a mass email sent to get the claiming tweaked for bst. Why on one occasion can you release a pet an a mob will follow you to the other end of the zone red. you do the exact same thing next fight. an it goes unclaimed as it follows you to the zone. i tried everything to keep the mob red as it finds me. sometimes it works other times it dont. i melee it a few times to get hate. i cast dia on it. in the end it still doesnt stop it from goin red til it hits me, or going unclaimed til it hits me.

[Ziero]

Re: They threw me in jail!

No matter what happened, if the OP said just once 'lets take their mobs and ruin their exp' or anything ever REMOTELY close to that, then what the GM did was 100% correct.

It shows his intent to harass others. If he said that he wanted to ruin their exp and the PT didn't then it's clear why this happened. One must also question as to whether or not the OP has any prior marks on his record which may have been taken into account. Then there's the way the OP talked to the GMs in question, as well as the party, seeing that it may have affected their decisions.

The first group was wrong to do what they did. That's not the debate and no one is siding with them. But if they didn't show intent in any way then the GM was right in his decision.

And as for everyone who saying they should be 'taught a lesson' what exactly did they learn? They weren't the ones who had their night ruined, they were still there Exping when the OP got jailed. In the end all your actions 'against' them turned out to be little more then a slight inconvienece while you ended up in jail.

I don't think you taught them anything.


Edit: After seeing the last few posts an idea occured to me. Maybe they just didn't like you. Perhaps they had something against you for whatever reason and decided to screw you over. With your vigilante attitude it's easy to assume you took out your aggressions on many other people in the past and this might have been something that came up and bit you in the end.

As for Bst being the 'Black Sheep of FFXI, many earned that title through their actions against others. I've had Bsts come into camps where I was Exping in a Pt for hours and try to MPK us because we 'took their mobs' that they niether attacked or charmed. Bsts aren't always the innocent victims.

[Rai]

Re: They threw me in jail!

I'm gonna have to side with the OP, though his methods of going about it were less than stellar

How so? First he placed a GM call, then when the GM failed to use any sort of reason or logic in his interpretation of the rules, the OP called upon his friends for help.

I don't go looking for trouble, but sometimes trouble finds you. There are 2 things you can do Fight or Flight. Those are the natural responses to a hostile situation. He fought back and he did it because BSTs have to put up with a lot of this BS, parties showing up and trying to force them out.

I have never as a BST or a member of a party started a pulling war, but when I've pulled and tried doing so with a Ranged weapon had others run up and voke my target, they just started somthing I sure as hell will finish.

[little ninja]

Re: They threw me in jail!

No matter what happened, if the OP said just once 'lets take their mobs and ruin their exp' or anything ever REMOTELY close to that, then what the GM did was 100% correct.

It shows his intent to harass others. If he said that he wanted to ruin their exp and the PT didn't then it's clear why this happened. One must also question as to whether or not the OP has any prior marks on his record which may have been taken into account. Then there's the way the OP talked to the GMs in question, as well as the party, seeing that it may have affected their decisions.

The first group was wrong to do what they did. That's not the debate and no one is siding with them. But if they didn't show intent in any way then the GM was right in his decision.

And as for everyone who saying they should be 'taught a lesson' what exactly did they learn? They weren't the ones who had their night ruined, they were still there Exping when the OP got jailed. In the end all your actions 'against' them turned out to be little more then a slight inconvienece while you ended up in jail.

I don't think you taught them anything.


Edit: After seeing the last few posts an idea occured to me. Maybe they just didn't like you. Perhaps they had something against you for whatever reason and decided to screw you over. With your vigilante attitude it's easy to assume you took out your aggressions on many other people in the past and this might have been something that came up and bit you in the end.

As for Bst being the 'Black Sheep of FFXI, many earned that title through their actions against others. I've had Bsts come into camps where I was Exping in a Pt for hours and try to MPK us because we 'took their mobs' that they niether attacked or charmed. Bsts aren't always the innocent victims.

1. Im in an all bst Ls. Its pretty much common sense what i was asking them to do. without actually admiting to anything. i didnt even bitch about that in chat or tell. just said " So anyone wanna come exp with me down here". lol the keyword in the phrase is exp. since everyone 72+ refer to normal exp as merits. the word exp means cause trouble. i highly doubtr a GM would know that.

2. Nope this is the first time ive seen this jail. I havent even been warned before. i dont even really call G.Ms unless i can prove outright what im contacting them for. stuck in dynamis windy, fallen off the bridge in Kazaam. watching a gil seller warp onto the top of a krag.

3. they did show intent. i mean they started to steal my mobs on the first one i fought. they then did it on the next 2 before i asked them to please stop. they showed what their true intent was from the start. GET THE BST THE HELL OUT OF HERE. pretty obvious to me.

4. Maybe they didnt like me, though i dont reconize any of the names. an im rarely around other players for long periods of times. then again maybe i hurt a friend of a friends feelings. LOL but then again doesnt this just prove they had motive for what they did?

How so? First he placed a GM call, then when the GM failed to use any sort of reason or logic in his interpretation of the rules, the OP called upon his friends for help..

lol i asked them to stop stealing my mobs as well.

[Ziero]

Re: They threw me in jail!

Well in that case it's most likely number 4

They came and harrassed you and once you were gone they left

[Macht]

Re: They threw me in jail!

As far as the situation went the first half was alright it's the second half that went wrong. In it's entirety none of the actions were good one bit.

If you were to take this to actual life and law enforcement, this would of been wrong. It falls in the same nature of an agressor attacking you and you not only disarm him but shatter his ribcage, break his wrist, and fracture his skull and on top of that a Black Belt in martial arts. You will be taken to court for it to judge weather your actions were excessive, just because the guy attacked you gave you no right to beat the crap out of him.

There is a difference between defending and down right beating the crap out of. The best action you could of taken is to call for another GM, since GMs are basically law enforcement and the ToS is a guideline for them (it is looser then actual law, but it does have it's own boundaries) then each GM is likely to act and respond differently to a players behavior and frustrations.

Really the situation you were in the best you could do was to negotiate, either with the GMs to get something of a reasonable action or with the party in hopes of coming to some sort of agreable understanding.

Otherwise to take the defending standpoint, that would be having another BST partied with to properly maintain claim. That or another method that would help to prevent a party from taking it from you. The game itself and GMs behavior really isn't for solo intent, just the players made it that way and saw the viable potential for it.

Other then that like Caspian said keep it civil, don't start attacking eachother suggesting one to be a jerk or idiot for their POV.

[little ninja]

Re: They threw me in jail!

Well in that case it's most likely number 4

They came and harrassed you and once you were gone they left

My other friend said at first they looked like they were gonna steal his mob, then he equipped our shell. He says when they saw the grey shell, they turned an kindly waited for the next mob to pop.

To be honest i think there intent was to force me to leave. they prob figured, since there wasnt any AoE deaths anymore, or any real way i could mpk them. they figured they could just bully me out of the area. i think when they saw i had 5 more endgame bst showing up they realized. that just maybe they didnt do such a smart thing.

[Omni]

Re: They threw me in jail!

Oh Ziero is here to wave the moral finger around. Watch out.
I love this one...
[quote]The first group was wrong to do what they did. That's not the debate and no one is siding with them. But if they didn't show intent in any way then the GM was right in his decision.
quote]
What? You are omitting the details lil_nin gave and you just said they were wrong, what do you mean there's no intent? If you just said they are wrong, doesnt that imply they have bad intent?

Taking a mob from a bst on a pet swap IS intent. Get that through your head.

Even better...

With your vigilante attitude it's easy to assume you took out your aggressions on many other people in the past and this might have been something that came up and bit you in the end.

You have just unbased your whole argument. You are justifying the exact same thing you are condeming lil_nin for doing.


This is the exact same thing I explained in a previous thread. I posed the same question the GM and they told me it was OK.

Liberal TOS interpretation is great isnt it? Its never ok for a bst to take up all the mobs, but for a pt to harass 1 player, not a problem.

[Rai]

Re: They threw me in jail!

If you were to take this to actual life and law enforcement, this would of been wrong. It falls in the same nature of an agressor attacking you and you not only disarm him but shatter his ribcage, break his wrist, and fracture his skull and on top of that a Black Belt in martial arts. You will be taken to court for it to judge weather your actions were excessive, just because the guy attacked you gave you no right to beat the crap out of him.

I think the better analogy would be he was in his yard playing a boombox at an acceptable volume and his neighbors (the party) went and moved their stereo outside to drown him out. He in return called the members of his band and jammed at volume 11. Thus the police were called and he was cited with disturbing the peace.

[Eekiki]

Re: They threw me in jail!

Aye, I think I would've probably asked them to move first, then after they /laugh at you and /slap you, that makes it obvious (even for a GM) to see that they're just there to grief you. Diplomacy first, even though it always fails. At least you have the CYA factor then.

[Macht]

Re: They threw me in jail!

I think the better analogy would be he was in his yard playing a boombox at an acceptable volume and his neighbors (the party) went and moved their stereo outside to drown him out. He in return called the members of his band and jammed at volume 11. Thus the police were called and he was cited with disturbing the peace.

Eh, both work. Similar ideas point is Person A was violated by Person B, Person A then down right tries to destroy Person B (Be sound, physical health, etc..). In that case even though both were wrong Person A will be penalized because his aggression was unessisary.