They threw me in jail!

[Murphie]

Re: They threw me in jail!

Be sure to post another thread ommiting critical details asking if you were right or wrong when you do that too.

[little ninja]

Re: They threw me in jail!

....you're joking right?

You were both farming mobs for MONEY?

You KNEW that the mobs you were charming dropped rare, expensive, WANTED items and that the other party of people there also wanted those items yet claim they were intentionally harrasing you? No one exps on EM mobs with an party of six, any claim otherwise is a blatant lie. They were there for the drops, just like you. They were after the ITEM. Yes in this situation Yellow is fair game. When you lost claim they gained it and killed the mobs in an attempt to get drops. Not to cause you grief but to gain the item these few rare monsters drop.

Not EXP

Not Merits

Not revenge

They wanted the Gil

There are only five (5) Monsters in the ENTIRE game that drop those items and you were selfish enough to complain that other people tried killing them? Yes these things can be considered NMs, they are the only source of that specific item in the game. Prevent those monsters from dying and respawning IS holding mobs. They weren't 'harrasing' you because you were a Bst, they were trying to get the drops. It had nothing to do with you, your job, your 'exp' or anything about you.

I had a situation just like this a while back. A Bst would come up and steal *my* mobs while I was farming Goobbues in Zi'Tah because of the faults in the new claim system. I didn't call my buddies to come lock down the zone, I moved to a new area and kept farming because in the end what he did, though rude, was perfectly legal.

But you calling your friends to specifically HOLD all five (the only five mobs that drop these items) IS harassment. There is no question now, both GMs were right, the PT did nothing wrong and you were just being as greedy, if not more so, as them.

It was funny of you to 'omit' that major part of the story though. For a while I almost sympathized with you and thought that the first GM was wrong. He wasn't though, neither of them were. I bet if you included that lil tid bit of info in the first post then this 'discussion' wouldn't have gone on so long.

You were competeing for gil drops, alls fair when things are yellow. You halting the respawn of these few mobs is actively holding rare and special mobs *is* clearly against the ToS. You have no right to complain about any negative stigmata Bst have because you personally help perpetrate it.

Sure they are money mobs, but i wasnt farming them for money. i was farming them for a couple ls mates who needed the eyes for their cluster. i figured since they helped me out, that i would help them out. i figured if i got lucky with more then 2, then i could make some money.

Sorry you think you have everything figured out. But your as clueless as a virgin on prom night, i do farm mobs that are E.P for money items, i also farm them for exp. i was getting 30-40 a kill. over time especially for things that sucks for dops it really adds up. but above all other things. its another easy way for me to pull in KS an BS seals.

Im sorry but if you feel its right that they can take monsters i was fighting because they went unclaimed. then im sorry to say i have a right as a player of this game to charm any mob that is not claimed by another party. you have a probelm with it. thats to damn bad, take it up with S.E make them fix it so that PSO mobs drop eyes. biotch to S,E to fix it so i cant charm money mobs like the eye mobs.

So its against ToS prove it. an then when you prove it i will give you about 1k names who violate ToS ingame as we speak. like the taru a hole in sandy with his casino. guess what thats against ToS, but hes still doing it. the same 6 people are in ulli camp for the 100 straight days. yeah if that aint monopoly i dont know what is. Go look at the sales of certain items on our server. more proof of a monopoly. jump off the ToS will ya,

Double Post Edited:

Be sure to post another thread ommiting critical details asking if you were right or wrong when you do that too.

Well it is in a bst forum to be discussed amongst bst. not any joe smoe of a mage. should i go post in the mage forums about your guys job ingame i have no clue on?

is easy to be a judge when youve yet to experience the problem first hand.

[Murphie]

Re: They threw me in jail!

It's on the FFXIO forums, meaning that it can be discussed by anyone here. And I've leveled BST before, so I do have a general idea. I just have a different way of dealing with situations.

[Balodoth]

Re: They threw me in jail!

I think he's upset everybody is being logical.

little ninja, everybody agrees it was unsportsmanlike for the other party to finish off those mobs after you had already claimed them. They may point out the legality and reasoning behind it, but they still agree it was in poor taste. Please quit pursuing it. Just because you got a raw deal doesn't make your retaliation right.

Sometimes ethics and contracts don't match up. I'm sorry the party ruined your gaming experience. I'm sorry you felt you needed to react as you did. And I'm sorry it ended up with you in jail. Now you can continue to complain about this as if we aren't validating your emotions, or you can accept that what's done is done and figure out a better action to take in the future.

By the by, have your friends got the eyes you were helping with yet?

[Ziero]

Re: They threw me in jail!

You were farming these mobs for the same reason they were.

The items they drop.

If this was a 'real' NM and someone 'stole' it, you wouldn't be able to call a GM on them either. You *knew* other people were there for the items. Whether you planned on selling it or giving them to friends, you *wanted* those items just like they did. Their intention wasn't to harrass some 'innocent' Bst while he was EXPing, their intention was *exactly* the same as your.

But when YOU decided to hold the monsters, you broke the ToS. Clearly. There is no sympathy for you, you weren't a victim of some random jerks you were competeing for CASH DROPS. I know what you told me, and everything you have said shows that you both wanted the items. And while they were working within the ToS you stepped outside it because you didn't get your way.

It's nice you brag about how your friends and you have special 'keywords' which tell each other that you want to harrass people, as such I'm sure it's not the first time you did it. That means that you're no where near as innocent a Bst as you made yourself out to be. You are the reason Bsts are looked down on.

Edit: I will admit it was rude for the other PT to finish off the mobs he started fighting. I know I wouldn't do that or condone others to do it. And yes the party was rude to do it. But it was *not* against the ToS. That's the major point that has to be made, he called a GM who told him it was all fair and because *he* decided the GM was wrong he took matters into his own hands. Then after breaking the ToS himself, he came here to complain and try to get sympathy as a 'mistreated bst'.

[little ninja]

Re: They threw me in jail!

I think he's upset everybody is being logical.

little ninja, everybody agrees it was unsportsmanlike for the other party to finish off those mobs after you had already claimed them. They may point out the legality and reasoning behind it, but they still agree it was in poor taste. Please quit pursuing it. Just because you got a raw deal doesn't make your retaliation right.

Sometimes ethics and contracts don't match up. I'm sorry the party ruined your gaming experience. I'm sorry you felt you needed to react as you did. And I'm sorry it ended up with you in jail. Now you can continue to complain about this as if we aren't validating your emotions, or you can accept that what's done is done and figure out a better action to take in the future.

By the by, have your friends got the eyes you were helping with yet?

Naa im not ticked off about getting jailed. To me its been the double standard of this game. ya knwo one minute its like they force the holy heck out of the ToS. then the next 3 months they dont do anything about anything.

as for my friends. 4 endgame bst, an the 2 69 bst went there today to farm for them. we had all 6 of us in the little room, with 2 scorpions, an 4 bats. i feel bad for anyone who felt like showing up. today we actually got them pretty fast. under an hour we had 2 an on to finish off the last 2 eyes in Infrits cauldron.

[Gman]

Re: They threw me in jail!

THE THOUSAND EYES ARE NOT NMS! No matter how much you think they are, they are not. An NM cannot be charmed. Obviously Thousand Eyes can, or little woudn't have spent time in jail. They check as EP, not Impossible to guage. Just because they drop something no other mobs do, does not make them NM. Your point is valid, but your wording is not. FYI Stroper Chyme isn't NM either. Go check it sometime. ZOMG it dropped Archer Ring, it HAD to be NM... nope, sorry it wasn't. Same goes for Ooze in Beadeaux, and a long list of other mobs that have drops that are desirable.

Yes, he was there to hunt items, just like they were, but the fact remains, they should have been focusing on claiming new pops, not stealing his when he went to pet swap. That is just dirty, and morally wrong. And just to fuel the fire, they had the nerve to taunt him with /slap emotes after stealing his mobs. In those situations, I get personally offended, and immediately look to retaliate. He took the high road at first by contacting a GM. That GM chose to let him continue to get screwed over, and he took matters into his own hands, not realizing it would come back to bite him. Bad luck, I say... had he gotten different GM's it might have been the other party in jail. Also, for issues where you are holding mobs, be it NM's or whatever, USUALLY a GM will come give you a warning before jailing you. It's pretty lame that he went right to jail with no warning at all. If you are holding an HNM or something, a GM will send you a tell to start killing it, or go to jail. Had little ninja been given that ultimatum, I'm sure he would have released it...

What little ninja COULD have done in retalliation to not get in trouble, is throw the charmed Thousand Eyes at a Spartoi Warrior, let it die, then zone. A GM can't do shit about that. It's not holding, but you are preventing the other party from killing it too.

*evil grin*

[Ziero]

Re: They threw me in jail!

Um, the fact that it doesn't check as ITG does not mean it's not a special mob. And even if it's a normal mob, anything that goes yellow *can* be claimed by other people according to the ToS. The fact mobs go yellow when the pet that was fighting them dies is so that bst can't hold claim on two mobs at once by having the pet fight one mob while they fight a second. It's a feature to prevent abuse BY bsts against other players, not a glitch in the game. The first GM was absolutely right in not doing anything, no one broke the ToS in ANY way. Yes it was rude, but the ToS does not enforce behavior based on 'rudness'. And according to his story, the other pt didn't say or do anything to him until he told them to leave.

But when him and his friends charmed and HELD each and every single monster that drops that one specific single item to prevent OTHER players from getting the chance to fight for claim, he broke the ToS. The second GM was correct to jail *him* because he intentionally stopped the flow of this one specific mob and it's one specific item. Whether it checks itg or not, it has a unique item and he prevented others from getting the *chance* to claim it by not killing the things he claimed.

It was never about people being mean to Bsts, it was about people wanting the same item as the Bst dumb enough to lose claim on a one of kind item dropping mob and then getting mad at it. He knew exactly why they were there and he knew exactly why they were 'taking his mob' and there was nothing 'unfair' ever done to him.

[little ninja]

Re: They threw me in jail!

If its a special mob, then S.E would give it special properties. like being unable to charm it. they seem to have done that with the LoO placeholders. but they have not done so, so S.E concludes these mobs dont warrant it. Second its not being held if you are actively using your pet. just like your not holding a hnm, if your actively ingaging it an doing damage. truth of the matter we were fighting skeletons an undead dogs with them. so technically no holding was ever done.

well guess what both parties stopped the flow of the game for each other. they felt the need to stop my flow of pet swapping, an felt the need to stop the flow of my release into rampage for full exp , an hopes on a drop. so why is their situation ok, yet mine isnt. dog eat dog word. just so happens my bite was bigger i guess.

Yeah your right i was wrong the party did nothing wrong. umm its under ToS its called griefing. Annoyance, frustration,Trouble or difficulty. So break it down. was their stealing my monsters annoying (yes) did they do it to frustrate me into leaving (yes). guess ToS boy. they were doing the same thing.

[sevenpointflaw]

Re: They threw me in jail!

They did give the mob special properties. They gave it a drop.

[little ninja]

Re: They threw me in jail!

They did give the mob special properties. They gave it a drop.

All mobs drop something. so technically i cant charm anything.

[sevenpointflaw]

Re: They threw me in jail!

Well, argue the point that way if you want, but we all know that charming/holding all of the mobs that drop a specific item is something that GM's do not tolerate. Its the same reason you can get RMT in trouble for monopolizing an NM or other high-profit, low yield mobs. High-profit, high-yield mobs aren't included because they are high-yield.

And yes, you can get RMT in trouble for that, I've done it several times. Not that it did any good (new RMT showed up before next pop).

I suppose that like everyone else I agree that that it was dirt-bagish to "steal" your mobs, and I agree with you that it was griefing - assuming that the un-claim is in fact a bug. I would point at how SE handled HNM battles and claims going yellow mid-battle as to how SE feels about the situation (or at least, should feel, and consistantly, instead of picking and choosing)

However, I can think of a couple ways to keep the mob from going yellow on pet swap that I'm pretty sure would work (I'm not going to say how until actually -testing- it myself to verify, I'll edit later tonight). In which case the mob going yellow isn't a bug - and therefor not an exploit of a bug - and therefor not griefing, but rather friendly compition.

At least, I'm assuming thats how the GM interprated it and what the Developers say (though honestly, I'm all for mob stays red when you decharm your pet and swap, cause its friggin' stupid.)

[Gman]

Re: They threw me in jail!

There's no way to stop it from going yellow, unfortunately. It will stay red up until you hit your 'fight' macro to get your new pet to attack it. Strangely enough, it doesn't turn yellow when you use the charm macro on a new pet, but when you hit fight, boom, goes yellow until your new pet gets a hit on it. The new claim rules are SUPPOSED to prevent stealing like this, but I guess a provoke had more hate than little ninja had, since his first pet had most of the hate.

The mob will also turn yellow for a brief instant when you release your pet to finish the prey off. Like that 0.5 sec before rampage goes off, it will be yellow. Not much time to voke it, but if the party is waiting there like a hawk on a dead rat, they will have time.

Which brings me back to my point about that party harassing the BST. Instead of waiting on the next pop and trying to claim it, they chose to PURPOSELY wait for his mob to go yellow so they could get a free kill, and take away his hard work. I'm not sure how little ninja explained that to the first GM, but they CAN and WILL enforce that kind of thing due to griefing. Just gotta get a GM who isn't a total moron.

[little ninja]

Re: They threw me in jail!

I did point it out to a GM. i told them what was going on, an how they were waiting for it to go unclaimed near the very end of the fight. to get a cheap steal an kill. then as the conversation switched to the "hey yellow is fair game" bit. i asked if it was not a form of griefing. after a certain point GM's become a broken record.

.5 is a long time, especially when it involves certain things. Its not hard for a Nin at +6 eminity to voke an hold an unclaim mob from a bst long enough for their sam to Ws it. an what can i do as a bst with around -14 eminity, this causes my damage output to be insanely high with little worries of turning the mobs. yet it still goes yellow constantly

I still dont see why it does what it does. ive seen the mob stay red for the whole time. pet swap an all. with me doing 0 damage, an no sic. to it going unclaimed when im meleeing it an hit my leave macro. they need to tweak a bsts charm, an its leave.

[Omni]

Re: They threw me in jail!

Instead of waiting on the next pop and trying to claim it, they chose to PURPOSELY wait for his mob to go yellow so they could get a free kill, and take away his hard work.

Thanks Gman for trying to explain why this irritates a bst. Apparently many players dont know why bsts get all uppity over this. What I quoted is exactly why bsts get upset.

assuming that the un-claim is in fact a bug.

... how can you argue this whole time and all the while not knowing that this is what happens when a bst swaps pets? that's just amazing. This has been the bane of bst for the longest time.