They threw me in jail!

[Tomatoes]

Re: They threw me in jail!

Rai, you're like the little kid shouting about addition while everybody is discussing algebra. It's already been established that (A) the PT stole his mob and (B) they were wrong to do so (assuming little ninja is telling the truth, which I actually do think he is, just that he's omitting certain things to make his story look good). Not a single person in this thread disputes A or B, so take your capslock and I dunno... not feeling really patient atm, so for lack of a better phrase, shut up.

What is being disputed is what constitutes harrassment. Imo, harrassment and stealing are not the same thing. You can quote Merriam-Webster or whatever you want. The GMs don't care. As far as their decision-making goes, they care only about the TOS and their jobs (although, it's hard to say they care even about those two things these days). And like I've said here, and the two other same topic threads that popped up recently, intent is a big issue in how the GMs treat us.

Believe me, I don't give a shit about acting like a "scholar of all things." I do however get fairly pissed off when people are dishonest with themselves and towards others. Yes, even if they were wronged first. I had guessed it was haku eyes, but to hear you actually confirm it finally after 3 pages of back and forth is stunning. That said, I seriously hope you aren't referring to Blubber Eyes ("all 5 mobs spawn in a small circular room."). One CC should be able to tear through all 5 of the pops with ease as a 75bst. You shouldn't have to use more than 1 jug for all 5 of them, let alone having to petswap for a single one. But nevermind that. The kicker is that you actually told the GM you and your buddies were "meritting" off haku eye mobs? For what, 20xp a kill? Even GMs are not stupid enough to swallow that kind of lie (well, most GMs anyway).

Yeah, it is pretty funny/sad that sometimes people can get away with stealing and we can't get away with retalitation. But it's just as pathetic when you realize this, go ahead and exercise your "tricks of the trade" anyway, and proceed to whine about it on a forum like it was a big surprise. If you can't distinguish how intent factors into harrassment/TOS, well, your loss. Have fun playing with your dictionary.com the next time you end up in Mordion. And thanks for perpetuating the myth (or is it reality?) of BST being the "problem child" of FFXI.

P.S. To be fair, in light of how screwy the claim system has become, I do think the first GM should have jailed that PT or warned them at least (for stealing, rather than harrassment). Did the GM actually witness them steal it from you and gave you that yellow-is-fair line? Also, what's his name? lol if it's Wtnite.

[little ninja]

Re: They threw me in jail!

I am actually telling the truth. an i am leaving nothing out. if you think i am or arent. Mention it, an maybe i can clear some of it up. LoL just dont go saying something ive already covered like a few other posters have. Honestly i didnt think the area was in question. just the behavior of the players. thus why i never mentioned it.

your second paragraph only supports what my original statement said. Is this game based on a double standard. Why is one thing aloud, yet not another. why throw me in jail at all, an not just warn me/talk to me over tells. why nothin is said to the other group. ToS is something S.E needs to word better.

Actually have you ever merited while farming eyes, Next time you reach 0. go farm some eyes somewhere an tell me how many merits you actually have when you walk out with 2-5 Hak eyes. i actually got 5-8k before. lol sure you can get lucky an get 2 on the first few ya killed, but im never that lucky. 20exp is good. but anyways what you think those peeps were getting off my stoloen mobs for exp 9 mazybe 10.

"If you can't distinguish how intent factors into harrassment/TOS, well, your loss" i can. an i dont deny what my intent was. it was to ruin their chances from getting exp an drops. Yet dont you aggree that this was also the intent of the party itself.

its just funny someone would claim me the harasser. yet im only doing what the party is doing. Stealing there exp an drops. childish, yes, but its only fair.

P.S if you go past the room you will find some dead doggies, an some skeletors. lol sorry just what i always call them ingame, but yeah they con Vt to me at 75. trick is to go thru the tunnel you came in an build some tp with your pet, then head to the next room. the eyes paralyze move, + on or 2 casting flare equals good night Vt.

P.S.S i dunno i invited the G.M down to take a quick look while i was fighting. he didnt reply. a few mins later it was jacked again. so he came on few mins later an said yellow was fair game. yet did he witness it, or was he just responding to an earlier question i dont know. But then he went on to say yellow is free game to whomever. i said even to charm an use as pets? he said yes if its unclaimed, then said good day any other ?? i can ask, but was gone before i could respond.

[Kailea]

Re: They threw me in jail!

yellow is fair game, its the risk you take when fighting something that you need multi pets for... use jugs or soemthing, I dont play BST, but really, youcould have used a jug, you take the risk of it being stolen when you use charmed pets, and have to charm another one, yeah they should not have stolen it, but yellow is fair game, its how the clame system works

and yeah yeah I know "jug pets are not as strong as charmed ones" well bring more -.-

[Grizzlebeard]

Re: They threw me in jail!

It's a such a shame that people are so blinded by political correctness and fairness towards people who openly steal mobs and ruin the enjoyment of other players to the point they feel they have to take matters into their own hands because the game is designed so badly and certain GMs are inept. It's interesting to watch FFXI mirror real life with regards to the whole focus on the criminal's rights over those of the victim's.

[Hamlet]

Re: They threw me in jail!

So, were you suspended for this? If so, how long?

[Altae]

Re: They threw me in jail!

Well, Little Ninja, it's still similar to what I had been trying to talk about. The neighboring party still benefits from taking a weaken monster and killing it for easy, effortless exp/drops.

[little ninja]

Re: They threw me in jail!

yellow is fair game, its the risk you take when fighting something that you need multi pets for... use jugs or soemthing, I dont play BST, but really, youcould have used a jug, you take the risk of it being stolen when you use charmed pets, and have to charm another one, yeah they should not have stolen it, but yellow is fair game, its how the clame system works

and yeah yeah I know "jug pets are not as strong as charmed ones" well bring more -.-

Jugs are ok on them, but the mobs tend to spam flare very often it seems. my C.C actually got hit with flare at the biginning of the fight, an then the middle. Its sad im gonna have to resort to spending 30k a stack of C.C an 20k a stack of epison just to not be stolen from on every mob.

Double Post Edited:

It's a such a shame that people are so blinded by political correctness and fairness towards people who openly steal mobs and ruin the enjoyment of other players to the point they feel they have to take matters into their own hands because the game is designed so badly and certain GMs are inept. It's interesting to watch FFXI mirror real life with regards to the whole focus on the criminal's rights over those of the victim's.

an they still fail to call this sort of action harrassment. go figure,

Double Post Edited:

So, were you suspended for this? If so, how long?

Not sure 24 hours im guessing, but i left to go visit my parents, friends an family. so your guess is as good as mine.

Double Post Edited:

Well, Little Ninja, it's still similar to what I had been trying to talk about. The neighboring party still benefits from taking a weaken monster and killing it for easy, effortless exp/drops.

Maybe i was to drunk when i read your post. but i thought you kept refering to the party stealing my former pets. an not the actual mob i was fighting. do you know what you get for exp for killing my monster i was fighting. depending on the HP, an lvl of mob. im guessing below 10.

[Karinya]

Re: They threw me in jail!

I am actually telling the truth. an i am leaving nothing out. if you think i am or arent. Mention it, an maybe i can clear some of it up. LoL just dont go saying something ive already covered like a few other posters have. Honestly i didnt think the area was in question. just the behavior of the players. thus why i never mentioned it.

Do you honestly expect anyone to believe that you really thought that a party was fighting thousand eyes for exp, and the fact that there are only 5 spawns for them in the whole game and they drop a 50k+ item that is required for hakutaku eye cluster just wasn't important?

Exactly how stupid do you think we are?

your second paragraph only supports what my original statement said. Is this game based on a double standard. Why is one thing aloud, yet not another. why throw me in jail at all, an not just warn me/talk to me over tells. why nothin is said to the other group. ToS is something S.E needs to word better.

Well, before I saw that it was thousand eyes, I thought the first GM was in the wrong (although the second was clearly in the right). But considering those things are camped like NMs to begin with, I think the first GM's stance was entirely reasonable.

I *do* think the claim system should be adjusted so BST don't lose claims as easily. But there are other options for dealing with that, including choosing targets you can kill with only one pet (or one pet and NPC, or one charmed pet, one jug pet and NPC, etc...) or just choosing a less contested area. Everyone (who didn't just buy their burning eye out of someone's bazaar) knows how fierce the claim competition for thousand eyes can get. You don't have a "right" to them.

And knowing which mobs were involved, it's not hard to picture the behavior the second GM considered "holding" - 5 bst each charm one thousand eyes and then go kill some undead. The eyes can't repop while they're alive.

Anyone want to defend that behavior now that you know the details?

Actually have you ever merited while farming eyes, Next time you reach 0. go farm some eyes somewhere an tell me how many merits you actually have when you walk out with 2-5 Hak eyes. i actually got 5-8k before. lol sure you can get lucky an get 2 on the first few ya killed, but im never that lucky. 20exp is good. but anyways what you think those peeps were getting off my stoloen mobs for exp 9 mazybe 10.

But they're there for eyes, not exp, and you're not stupid enough not to know that. The fact that you can get 1k/hr doesn't make you an exp party.

Is it rude to grab a monster with valuable drops when someone else loses claim (and is still alive)? Sure. Is it exploiting a bug? Arguably, in this case (maybe SE made BST declaims for a reason, I don't know). Is it against ToS? SE says no.

"If you can't distinguish how intent factors into harrassment/TOS, well, your loss" i can. an i dont deny what my intent was. it was to ruin their chances from getting exp an drops. Yet dont you aggree that this was also the intent of the party itself.

Not at all. Their intent was to get the drops for themselves. Your intent was to prevent anyone from getting them by keeping the eyes alive and charmed.

If you just came down there, charmed a bunch of bats and outvoked them on the eyes, killing them as fast as they repopped, the second GM wouldn't have done shit even if you got every eye that popped for an hour. He certainly wouldn't have jailed you for "holding" common monsters nobody cares about.

But that's not what happened, was it?

[HarlockQ]

Re: They threw me in jail!

this is the difference from how the GM saw it and i felt the same way when reading this, you decided to go and charm monsters, and playing their game, which means you lowered yourself to their level, and perhaps even worse because you were taking on 4 mobs one for your pet, one for your friend and then the mobs you were fighting see? in reality it does seem wrong, but this shit happens its life oh well

[little ninja]

Re: They threw me in jail!

Kar good points across the board i aggree. Your best point is about the fixing of the bsts claim system. I only say this because it itself is inaccurate. one minute the mob is red chasing me down. the next minute its unclaimed chasing me down. an i did the same exact thing for both monsters.

So the hak eyes are a valuable mob. they doesnt give any player the right to steal it from another player why they are still alive an with 1400 hp. its a dirty tactic an is uncalled for. especially on a mob with a very fast respawn time. its not like a 12 hour ulli pop or something. What do you do within the set rules. since there is no rule that states they cant claim an unclaimed mob. so again there is no rule that states i cant have pets that drop rare expensive items. Thus now when you punish 1 for playing by the "ToS" rules, an not punish the other one for playing by the "ToS" rules. youve no made a double standard.

An i dont know about you but i have joined a few skill up parties, an a few Ws parties to get back some exp i lost from earlier events.

Double Post Edited:

this is the difference from how the GM saw it and i felt the same way when reading this, you decided to go and charm monsters, and playing their game, which means you lowered yourself to their level, and perhaps even worse because you were taking on 4 mobs one for your pet, one for your friend and then the mobs you were fighting see? in reality it does seem wrong, but this shit happens its life oh well

Once again, Show me the ToS rules that say i cant do what i did.

1. mobs i charmed where not placeholders for any nm.
2. monsters where not engaged, an where popped unclaimed,
3. nowhere does ToS state i cant charm a mob for which items drop from it. Because half of Vana deil would be uncharmable.

So instead of screwing them over 10 fold like i was doin. what should i have done?

[nazlfrag]

Re: They threw me in jail!

1. mobs i charmed where not placeholders for any nm.
2. monsters where not engaged, an where popped unclaimed,
3. nowhere does ToS state i cant charm a mob for which items drop from it. Because half of Vana deil would be uncharmable.

1. They are in effect NM's if there are only five of them in the entire game.
2. Monsters who were claimed by the party were also unclaimed at the time.
3. Harrasment - you and your buddies claim and hold every mob of it's type in the game, it is the same as claiming and holding an NM.

Metaphor time! I looked at it like it's like an ice hockey game, where one team fouled and got away with it, so you fouled them back and got the sin bin. You both deserved the sin bin, but the ref made a bad call on the first foul and only you got pinged. If the ref called the first foul correctly, you wouldn't have fouled back and wouldn't be in the sin bin.

That said, it seems they were farming, not exping. Their intent seems to be to compete with you for drops, not harass you. If you are in tight competition for mobs like this, yellow is fair game.

Well, before I saw that it was thousand eyes, I thought the first GM was in the wrong (although the second was clearly in the right). But considering those things are camped like NMs to begin with, I think the first GM's stance was entirely reasonable.

Well put. So the ref did make the correct call the first time, and you're not happy with the decision. Instead of playing on by the rules, you deliberately foul . You deserved the punishment.

Now the claim system may be broken, but it's the only one we have. Next time, bring a friend from the start so you don't lose claim perhaps?

[little ninja]

Re: They threw me in jail!

1. They are in effect NM's if there are only five of them in the entire game.
2. Monsters who were claimed by the party were also unclaimed at the time.
3. Harrasment - you and your buddies claim and hold every mob of it's type in the game, it is the same as claiming and holding an NM.

Metaphor time! I looked at it like it's like an ice hockey game, where one team fouled and got away with it, so you fouled them back and got the sin bin. You both deserved the sin bin, but the ref made a bad call on the first foul and only you got pinged. If the ref called the first foul correctly, you wouldn't have fouled back and wouldn't be in the sin bin.

That said, it seems they were farming, not exping. Their intent seems to be to compete with you for drops, not harass you. If you are in tight competition for mobs like this, yellow is fair game.Well put. So the ref did make the correct call the first time, and you're not happy with the decision. Instead of playing on by the rules, you deliberately foul . You deserved the punishment.

Now the claim system may be broken, but it's the only one we have. Next time, bring a friend from the start so you don't lose claim perhaps?

I loved the Hockey metophor. especially since i played it growing up leagues, highschool. an that reminds me, i really miss the old days of hockey. where the guy would make it a point to go after the guy who slashed him. an if it was a bad one you can bet your backside the team was head hunting him the rest of the night, lol ok anyways back to the metophor. to be honest who hasnt been cheap shoted, an later on tried to get away with one only to be busted. i know i have. then again there were always those time i did.

Funny i never knew charming mobs that were ep, were also considered nm's. i guess this means My bst friends are basically holding mobs all the time. ya see they like to kill the optical hat nm, using only the eyes that spawn in that area. i guess we all warrent a few night in the slammer. lol

Whos to say they werent doing a little of both. they were a party of 60-62. an if im not mistaken those eyes are 60-62. so they could have easily been there for some decent exp as well. 10 mobs to them is basically what it costs for a reraise2. i do it to make money an get cheap exp.

1. Actually there are 18-20 total spawn points for the thousand eyes. Pso' x has them as well. so you see there are more then 5 in the entire game.

2. exactly, so if they felt the need to claim,my mob that went unclaimed. then i pretty much felt the need to ckaim a mob, they were tryin to claim.

3. Nope like i said theres actually 18-20 in the entire game. go explore a little, maybe exp outside of the same few areas. maybe kill some different mobs instead of the same 10.

Sadly the claim system for bsts is broke. for some odd reason ive never seen this happen to a smn or a drg. an i know cause a few of them ticked me off, an i never seen them go unclaimed.

[Gman]

Re: They threw me in jail!

1. They are in effect NM's if there are only five of them in the entire game.

What a ridiculous suggestion. There are a but-load of mobs in the game that only have a few spawn points. Does that make them all NM's?

For the record, the Thousand Eyes in PsoXja do not drop Haku eyes, but it certainly shows there are more spawns. There are also Blubber Eyes in Sacrarium if I'm not mistaken (just so no one thinks they can only be found in SSG). Our PM 4-3 party ran into a couple, forcing some charm->familiar tactics from the BST we had there.

Comment towards this issue... calling in the posse to help secure the mobs was a bad idea, and likely what landed you in jail. Curious how it was just you and not your friends that got jailed though. I mean, assuming you were getting the short end before your LS mates got there, that party must have been pretty amused and content with how things were going. Why would they call a GM? Once your buds arrived, and they saw what they were up against, they call a GM and ONLY YOU get jailed? Why? Me thinks details are being left out.

Also, the Cutlass scorpions should have no problem finishing a Thousand eyes if you fight with it. However, in response to Tomatoes, I think suggesting a carrie can rip through 5 of those spawns is pushing it. With pet food, and a little luck I guess it would be possible. I've never tried though, since I had scorpions handy that were more than capable.

[Ziero]

Re: They threw me in jail!

....you're joking right?

You were both farming mobs for MONEY?

You KNEW that the mobs you were charming dropped rare, expensive, WANTED items and that the other party of people there also wanted those items yet claim they were intentionally harrasing you? No one exps on EM mobs with an party of six, any claim otherwise is a blatant lie. They were there for the drops, just like you. They were after the ITEM. Yes in this situation Yellow is fair game. When you lost claim they gained it and killed the mobs in an attempt to get drops. Not to cause you grief but to gain the item these few rare monsters drop.

Not EXP

Not Merits

Not revenge

They wanted the Gil

There are only five (5) Monsters in the ENTIRE game that drop those items and you were selfish enough to complain that other people tried killing them? Yes these things can be considered NMs, they are the only source of that specific item in the game. Prevent those monsters from dying and respawning IS holding mobs. They weren't 'harrasing' you because you were a Bst, they were trying to get the drops. It had nothing to do with you, your job, your 'exp' or anything about you.

I had a situation just like this a while back. A Bst would come up and steal *my* mobs while I was farming Goobbues in Zi'Tah because of the faults in the new claim system. I didn't call my buddies to come lock down the zone, I moved to a new area and kept farming because in the end what he did, though rude, was perfectly legal.

But you calling your friends to specifically HOLD all five (the only five mobs that drop these items) IS harassment. There is no question now, both GMs were right, the PT did nothing wrong and you were just being as greedy, if not more so, as them.

It was funny of you to 'omit' that major part of the story though. For a while I almost sympathized with you and thought that the first GM was wrong. He wasn't though, neither of them were. I bet if you included that lil tid bit of info in the first post then this 'discussion' wouldn't have gone on so long.

You were competeing for gil drops, alls fair when things are yellow. You halting the respawn of these few mobs is actively holding rare and special mobs *is* clearly against the ToS. You have no right to complain about any negative stigmata Bst have because you personally help perpetrate it.

[little ninja]

Re: They threw me in jail!

Sometimes the scorpions have no problem finishing off the thousand eyes. other times they struggle. do to early paralyze an flare. you know how it goes sometimes.

yeah i got thrown in jail because i was the ring leader. when i asked if my shell mates were gonna be taken next. the GM said no. later when i asked my friends they all said they had left after i did. at first they thought i d/ced when they werent lookin. then they were shocked when they found out i was in jail.

Prob not the smartest move. but we were fighting mobs with the pets. i cant help it if flare aga spells, as well as its paralyze are goldy. lol note to self, next time bring 30 bst an have them charm bats an scorpions then stand in the room.