They threw me in jail!

[Rai]

Re: They threw me in jail!

There is a world of difference between physical violence and actions that are at most irritating and annoying. To equate them as being the same trivializes the more serious one.

This is a game. Yet as in real life we have to deal with people who do thoughtless or worse malicious things against us. I have found that in life when a person attempts to deliver misery upon me simply shrugging it off only invites more misery. Likewise acting merely in a mannor to match there actions leaves room for them to retaliate. Therefore I believe that when a person attempts to deliver misery upon me my best response is to overwhelmingly retaliate to discourage escalation.

As a Martial Artist is annoys me to no end to have people spurt out improbable scenarios involving acts of violence and always tack on to the end oh and he was a black belt to boot. I was once attacked in a parking lot after seeing a band play at a bar, my response was instantaneous but controlled. If I could have killed the guy with one hit why would I beat him to excess?

There is a very clear difference between physical violence and any other situations of aggravation/annoyance. Do not confuse the two.

[Tomatoes]

Re: They threw me in jail!

If the PT was just trying to kill all the mobs of that type, then it's considered _stealing_ not harrassment (also wrong, but that's a whole other issue).

If the PT made no attempt to kill anything, except for mobs the BST was already engaging during a swap or some other loss of claim, then it would be considered harrassment.

I find it really disturbing how many of you are so willing to gloss over critical details to blindly support "victims' rights."

When you get your buddies with the primary intent lock down a camp (not to farm, not to xp, not to pretend to farm/xp), it's harrassment.

Is it subjective? Yes, often it is. But when you take the details into account, you go from "liberal interpretation" to "logical deduction." Unfortunately, most of our GMs are incompetent and try to be as hands-off as possible, unless something is blatantly obvious (i.e. just sitting on mobs and not doing anything or much with them, when it's _obvious_ it's just to piss people off).

If you all don't want to take the details into account, and just revert into RA RA BST Power mode, then you really aren't any better than the shit GMs and players you're complaining about.

[Macht]

Re: They threw me in jail!

There is a world of difference between physical violence and actions that are at most irritating and annoying. To equate them as being the same trivializes the more serious one.

This is a game. Yet as in real life we have to deal with people who do thoughtless or worse malicious things against us. I have found that in life when a person attempts to deliver misery upon me simply shrugging it off only invites more misery. Likewise acting merely in a mannor to match there actions leaves room for them to retaliate. Therefore I believe that when a person attempts to deliver misery upon me my best response is to overwhelmingly retaliate to discourage escalation.

As a Martial Artist is annoys me to no end to have people spurt out improbable scenarios involving acts of violence and always tack on to the end oh and he was a black belt to boot. I was once attacked in a parking lot after seeing a band play at a bar, my response was instantaneous but controlled. If I could have killed the guy with one hit why would I beat him to excess?

There is a very clear difference between physical violence and any other situations of aggravation/annoyance. Do not confuse the two.

I only stated end results, taken in the view of what other people and law is likely to see it as when they get there. Not by the view of it in process and what your actions are during which. I was stating postfactum and by 3rd part view not occuring and by 1st party view.

In the end view what others would see you overwhelmingly retaliating to discourage escalation is not tangible proof.

As for your example with the parking lot, that is not the same example as I was stating. See in yours the defined difference is you controlled yourself.

Reason I placed in the stuff about Martial Arts and Belt is because in some states it is Law that you register yourself as a martial artist and what belt you are. If the police find someone badly beaten or with broken bones and you were involved, that record will show your a martial artist and so the situation also takes on the dimension of were your actions within law or not.

I know this from living in Texas (required to register as a Martial Artist) and in Arizona (not required). To boot on top of which Arizona's law in defending yourself and Texas are completly different.

[little ninja]

Re: They threw me in jail!

We will never know what their true motive was. First off we were both facing the pop camp. the spawn area was clear cause id had been the only one there pawning them. so the first mob pops. Dia doesnt work due to the new claim system since theres a pause, second dia lands. an i start to fight. i have dia on the mob an i manage to land 4 atks. later on do to some poor pet pops. i was forced to switch pets. the mob now goes yellow an they claim with a ninja voke.
So i head back to claim the next mob witch i do. same atk setup as before. this time when i go to release my pet i cast heel, thus the mob is following us into the area i pulled the pets from. they follow me in an nab it again.

So TomTom i fail to see what your actually talking about. If this isnt harrassing a bst. then to be honest i dont know what is. to actually follow me into another part of the zone to steal it. yeah your right its stealing, an stealing from someone is also a form of harrassment.

[Tomatoes]

Re: They threw me in jail!

Do you think they might have been following the mob, not you? Why do I even have to ask this question?

From the way you tell it (which seems to get modified with each post), they're interested in the mob, not you. Mind disclosing what mob/zone this is? Or do you wanna keep doing this sitcom style, adding episodes periodically?

Stealing isn't the same as harrassment as far as we're talking about in-game terms. You're just trying to blend them together to cover your bases.

[Omni]

Re: They threw me in jail!

He said they were taking the mobs he was fighting. So, as a bst, this would mean they're taking his mob on pet swaps. That's how I read it.

Claiming a mob that spawns is not harassment. You have that right.
Claiming a mob during a pet swap is. Yea technically it is yellow, but you of all people have said the whole yellow is fair game thing not to be taken too literally.

I dont think they would be following a mob that had been claimed unless they were there to tag it during the swap.

[Tomatoes]

Re: They threw me in jail!

He said they were taking the mobs he was fighting. So, as a bst, this would mean they're taking his mob on pet swaps. That's how I read it.

Me too.

Claiming a mob that spawns is not harassment. You have that right.

Stating the obvious. However, do you have the right to claim and just sit on the mob? Sometimes, but not in all circumstances, and definitely not when your underlying intent is to screw with other people. But then, I've said that already. Multiple times.

Claiming a mob during a pet swap is. Yea technically it is yellow, but you of all people have said the whole yellow is fair game thing not to be taken too literally.

...

I dunno if you're just reading selectively or being stubborn, especially when I wrote in the post just above yours:

Stealing isn't the same as harrassment as far as we're talking about in-game terms. You're just trying to blend them together to cover your bases.

[Magnus V.]

Re: They threw me in jail!

Stating the obvious. However, do you have the right to claim and just sit on the mob? Sometimes, but not in all circumstances, and definitely not when your underlying intent is to screw with other people. But then, I've said that already. Multiple times.

Well actually he wasnt sitting on a mob... he used it to kill the other mobs, its not like he was charming them then /point /laughing at the party...

[Omni]

Re: They threw me in jail!

ok, lets take it slow. since it might help you understand.


How is he holding the mobs? Their charmed pet is considered holding? Go rethink what you just wrote.

However, do you have the right to claim and just sit on the mob? Sometimes, but not in all circumstances, and definitely not when your underlying intent is to screw with other people.

Now lets reread the OP.

were not holding anything. they are pets we use for expin merits. then he goes on to say we are ruining the gaming experience of other players in that area.

It's their pets AND they are using them to fight other mobs for merits. What holding are we talking about? Resting inbetween fights while still having a pet is not permitted? Come guy, you got to come up with something better than that to accuse someone of holding. If they all charmed mobs and sat down and didnt do anything, that might be a case of holding. Which wasnt the case here.

Stealing isn't the same as harrassment as far as we're talking about in-game terms. You're just trying to blend them together to cover your bases.

You're claiming that stealing at any time, is ok. I'm saying taking a mob, specifically on a pet swap from a bst is not just stealing but harassment also. Stealing/taking mobs any other time is just competition.

I dont know why its so difficult for you to grasp, being a bst yourself. You know how pet swaps work and if your mob is taken repeated during one, that's harassment. Apparently, you must be above all that. I only wish every other bst can play with the patience and light heartedness as you.

Double Post Edited:

Well actually he wasnt sitting on a mob... he used it to kill the other mobs, its not like he was charming them then /point /laughing at the party...

Thank you for pointing that out to him.

[sevenpointflaw]

Re: They threw me in jail!

This thread amuses me. I wonder, what was it exactly that the OP said to his BST friends to get them to come? I'm willing to bet it went something like this...

BST: Doo-dee-de. Killing away.
Party: Hey, lets go skillup/exp/farm
Party: Yay! Allright!
BST: Hey, stop stealing my mobs!
Party: LOLZnewb!/slap
BST: Mr GM! THey are harassing me!
GM: W/E. GTFO, newb.
BST: /l ZOMG! WTF! This GM is JPonry! He let party steal my mob!
BST2: /l ZOMG! I knew it!
BST: /l Get your butts down here, lets charm everything and kill it all so they can't do anything
BST2: /l wewt!
BST3: /l Finally sweet action!
BST4: /l LOLz 4$$hats!
BST5: /l Huh? XP? Ok!
Party: WTF? Where'd the mobs go?
Party: That stupid BST called the pase!
Party: GM! He's harassing us!
GM: W/E... oh shit... Look at those CHAT LOGS <-- Exhibit A
*warp*

Okay, so despite my silliness, i'm sure you get the point. A bst and a party coincidentally camping in the same spot does not mean dick or shit. Its not harrassment. Hell, I persnally don't even think it is any more rude than when a BST camps where my party is. Its just friendly compitition.

Until you "/l Hey boys! There's an asshat here!" (this can be either the BST or some one in the party, btw), and call your posse. It seems to me you (the OP) actively planned to ruin the game for the party. As in you talked to your friends and said "There are people here who are Jerks, lets take all thier mobs" and the GM investigated and saw those chat logs.

OK: Hey guys, anyone want to duo?
Not OK: All your mob are belong to us!
OK: Having a hard time with claims, anyone want to help?
Not OK: Lets claim everything and kill it all so they can't xp!

All your mob are belong to us... Tee-hee! I like that.

[Tomatoes]

Re: They threw me in jail!

ok, lets take it slow. since it might help you understand.


How is he holding the mobs? Their charmed pet is considered holding? Go rethink what you just wrote.

Now lets reread the OP.

Yeah, let's reread it:

Soon after i had a few bst. enough to take out the spawns so they would get nothing. So we all stood around an picked them off 1 at a time. an not kill them. but we charmed them.

It's their pets AND they are using them to fight other mobs for merits. What holding are we talking about? Resting inbetween fights while still having a pet is not permitted? Come guy, you got to come up with something better than that to accuse someone of holding.

I don't need to come up with anything better. You need to not skim so fast, or whatever it is you're doing that is making ignore key points in the thread.

You're claiming that stealing at any time, is ok.

Actually, what I said was this:

If the PT was just trying to kill all the mobs of that type, then it's considered _stealing_ not harrassment (also wrong, but that's a whole other issue).

Bolded part of it, so you don't miss it. Now where in that did I say or even remotely imply that "stealing at any time, is ok?"

I'm saying taking a mob, specifically on a pet swap from a bst is not just stealing but harassment also. Stealing/taking mobs any other time is just competition.

It isn't, because the intent isn't to harass, it's to steal the xp/drops/whatever. It's tragic, yes, but you're mixing the two.

[Rai]

Re: They threw me in jail!

Do you think they might have been following the mob, not you? Why do I even have to ask this question?

It seems to me you (the OP) actively planned to ruin the game for the party. As in you talked to your friends and said "There are people here who are Jerks, lets take all thier mobs" and the GM investigated and saw those chat logs.

Did either of you read through the thread? Do you have any idea of what you dare to be talking about? When a BST fights a Mob with a pet and the pet dies, the Mob goes unclaimed. Now if the BST is standing there Meleeing the Mob his next swing claims it but if he is waiting on claiming a new pet or resting for MP the Mob will be unclaimed.

HE WAS FIGHTING MOBs AND GETTING THEM TO 25%HP or LOWER WHEN HIS PET WOULD DIE and THE MOB WOULD GO UNCLAMED! NOT JUST ONCE OR TWICE BUT THREE TIMES OR MORE THAT PARTY THEN CLAIMED THE MOB WITH LOW HP BEFORE HE COULD.

There do you comprehend it now? Do you get it through your head that they started the entire incident? Do you realize that they will not get full EXP for the stolen Mob, otherwise BSTs could PL people. SO the party was either killing it for a drop or killing it to drive off the BST or both. Any way you slice it they were F'ing with him first!

[little ninja]

Re: They threw me in jail!

Do you think they might have been following the mob, not you? Why do I even have to ask this question?

From the way you tell it (which seems to get modified with each post), they're interested in the mob, not you. Mind disclosing what mob/zone this is? Or do you wanna keep doing this sitcom style, adding episodes periodically?

Stealing isn't the same as harrassment as far as we're talking about in-game terms. You're just trying to blend them together to cover your bases.

Yeah they were following the mob ya big dork. how else they gonna steal it. Jedi mind tricks or the force. Yeah it was a stupid question..

How about Hak eyes, now add in common sense an what i stated you can nail the zone. dont wanna actually read what i wrote. all 5 mobs spawn in a small circular room.

Well since you want to act like your a scholar of all things. maybe you could define the word Harrassment. in fact let me just give you a quick meaning from dictionary.com.

n 1: a feeling of intense annoyance caused by being tormented; "so great was his harassment that he wanted to destroy his tormentors" [syn: torment] 2: the act of tormenting by continued persistent attacks and criticism.

Its funny running behind a single guy an stealing his mobs on pet swaps an releases isnt a form of harrassment. Yet me charming some mobs with my Bst friends is.
Seriously you can argue what ever bull ya want. well ya but your mob did go unclaimed. its not harrasment. my retort well the mobs popped unclaimed, an you as some others automatically say harassment. an for the simple reason im a bst. hell in the past i heard you guys say. well 6 players is more important then one. so ingame i grab 5 other friends to rule out. the " we have more, so were more important clause" an then you guys feel the need to label it immature, an another reason for me the be label the harrasser.

Double Post Edited:

It seems to me you (the OP) actively planned to ruin the game for the party. As in you talked to your friends and said "There are people here who are Jerks, lets take all thier mobs" and the GM investigated and saw those chat logs.
.

So i can tell you 2 things about what you said 1. if your gonna post your own OP thats fine. but you only make yourself look like an idiot when you comment on something i said earlier. ( that means actually read whats been said if your too lazy to do so, dont bother posting) 2. now you say unclaimed monsters are the sole property of the group of players over the solo bst.

Actually like i said, We keep it clean in our Ls chat logs because we know S.E will read them regardless if we know about it or not. so what i wrote earlier you refused to read over was.

1. Im in an all bst Ls. Its pretty much common sense what i was asking them to do. without actually admiting to anything. i didnt even bitch about that in chat or tell. just said " So anyone wanna come exp with me down here". lol the keyword in the phrase is exp. since everyone 72+ refer to normal exp as merits. the word exp means cause trouble. i highly doubt a GM would know that.

an really if the GM wanted to read a log. they could have read the other parties log. they could have saw some trash talkin about me, an what they were doing. an even see what the previous GM said to me.

[Altae]

Re: They threw me in jail!

In the end, it all really is just this: The party moved in and hoped to accomplish some goal, whether it be farming or exping. It seems they are not satisfied with the rate of pulls or monsters. So it has come down to taking weakened monsters abandoned by a BST.

Pet swapping isn't even something arguable here. The fact that you unclaimed and uncharmded a monster is fair game for someone else to take. Yes, you have a systematic use for those weakened monsters, but they are no longer yours once you lose possession on them. Like, a RDM could be trying to solo Aquarius, weakens it down to 35% HP remaining and dies or escape/warps out. Someone else comes by and claims it than finishes it off. Don't tell me both parties now have to go through some serious GM conflict about that. Despite it being a totally different situation, the arguement is the same: He/she took my monster. MY monster.

You cannot argue over the fact that the neighboring party began taking your "pet swaps." They were indeed yours at one point, but once you abandoned them, it's free for anyone to touch. It's not even harassment. How many people sit by and watch someone run infront of a goblin to aggro it, so they can pass by safely because someone else took that bait? How many people wait by a NM fight hoping the other party will wipe so claim can go to him/her? It's all a dirty strategy to get what they want.

With situations like this, and other related cases, it's just best to avoid conflict. Creating conflict will only allow chances for GM calls to spring up. Depending on which side is more wittier, proper manipulation can cause your arguement to backfire.

And the thing about calling other BSTs to claim monsters, that very well indeed is harassment. Why? I'll tell you why. It's harassment since you are actually taking action to interfere with the flow of killing and spawning within that area. Sure, the party can go somewhere else, but so can you. Sure, BSTs have a god-given ability to claim monsters as "pets," but if you have no business there, you can easily be accused of interfereing as easily as gilsellers can be. Don't sink so low next time. Sure it was a heated moment and probably not a whole lot of room was allowed for thinking, but your emotions told you to get revenge and thats what happened.

Think about gilsellers for a moment. How their goal is to reap in anything valuable in-game and sell it for high amounts of in-game money. Then sell that in-game money to a website for real money. To interfere by using Charm in such a way, that's is very much a similar thing to gilselling. For all the GMs knew, they could very well assumed you and those other BSTs were gilsellers. See what I mean? Who would the GMs favor now? Your argument or the neighboring party?

[little ninja]

Re: They threw me in jail!

In the end, it all really is just this: The party moved in and hoped to accomplish some goal, whether it be farming or exping. It seems they are not satisfied with the rate of pulls or monsters. So it has come down to taking weakened monsters abandoned by a BST.

Pet swapping isn't even something arguable here. The fact that you unclaimed and uncharmded a monster is fair game for someone else to take. Yes, you have a systematic use for those weakened monsters, but they are no longer yours once you lose possession on them. Like, a RDM could be trying to solo Aquarius, weakens it down to 35% HP remaining and dies or escape/warps out. Someone else comes by and claims it than finishes it off. Don't tell me both parties now have to go through some serious GM conflict about that. Despite it being a totally different situation, the arguement is the same: He/she took my monster. MY monster.

You cannot argue over the fact that the neighboring party began taking your "pet swaps." They were indeed yours at one point, but once you abandoned them, it's free for anyone to touch. It's not even harassment. How many people sit by and watch someone run infront of a goblin to aggro it, so they can pass by safely because someone else took that bait? How many people wait by a NM fight hoping the other party will wipe so claim can go to him/her? It's all a dirty strategy to get what they want.

With situations like this, and other related cases, it's just best to avoid conflict. Creating conflict will only allow chances for GM calls to spring up. Depending on which side is more wittier, proper manipulation can cause your arguement to backfire.

And the thing about calling other BSTs to claim monsters, that very well indeed is harassment. Why? I'll tell you why. It's harassment since you are actually taking action to interfere with the flow of killing and spawning within that area. Sure, the party can go somewhere else, but so can you. Sure, BSTs have a god-given ability to claim monsters as "pets," but if you have no business there, you can easily be accused of interfereing as easily as gilsellers can be. Don't sink so low next time. Sure it was a heated moment and probably not a whole lot of room was allowed for thinking, but your emotions told you to get revenge and thats what happened.

Think about gilsellers for a moment. How their goal is to reap in anything valuable in-game and sell it for high amounts of in-game money. Then sell that in-game money to a website for real money. To interfere by using Charm in such a way, that's is very much a similar thing to gilselling. For all the GMs knew, they could very well assumed you and those other BSTs were gilsellers. See what I mean? Who would the GMs favor now? Your argument or the neighboring party?

Never play Bst i presume. since you do not grasp the concept of the "Pet swap". Let me explain it in better terms. Pet Swap is where you leave 1 monster, to charm another. Its called a pet swap because generally most of it is done during battle. What is happening is im fighting Aquarius, So im charming, an swaping out near death mandorara for another one that has full health. What this party was doing, was waiting for my Aquarius to be at 3% or less, then when i go to swap a weak mandy for a full health one. the party comes in an kills Aquarius on me. the reason they can do this is for some odd reason S.E refuses to fix the glitch. the glitch being the monster Aquarius would go unclaimed when i go to switch pets. even though fight, sic, reward, heal an leave, all generate hate,

Actually players waiting for someone to agro a goblin, or hoping for someone to wipe on a NM is a game of chance. its not a dirty tactic. the chance being nobody may ever run by that goblin ticking you off. an maybe that party doesnt wipe on the nm.

i wont make another comment on your post because im afraid you mistaken the Bst term "Pet Swap"