Terms of Service?

[Omni]

Who does it really protect? What does it really uphold? Does it protect legit, friendly gamers? No. Does it uphold friendly gameplay between gamers? No. Does it keep the game fun for most players more so than less? No.

Now, I'm not trying to break down the ToS on every level and in every situation. Because obviously, theres always different situations that will yield different results.

I am getting the feeling that the ToS protects those who cause trouble more than those that try to enjoy the game. The ToS only helps those that are being troubled only when the people causing trouble take it to an extreme level. Anything less than extreme, they get away with it.

My adventures on saturday night and subsequent GM conversation have given me much frustration lately. After a full day of searching for a nice camp other than GC basement @58, I finally return back to GC after finding out that it has cleared out. Only a few lv. 33ish pts around and one lv. 50ish pt. I head to the 4 hellmines tunnel and start pulling away. 5 minutes later, a whm/bst shows up and starts attacking another hellmine. Note, he was anon but he was in Nobles/Zenith Gear, so these bombs have nothing to do with XP for him, merely searching for a key. I politely asked him if he could leave these 4 bombs alone and he can have all the undead and pots lying around. Of course, he ignored me. That's fine, I've delt with this before, I'll just take what mines I can and kill some undead inbetween.

When mines dont self destruct, it can take up to 3 pets to bring one down and in doing so, your claim on the mob might turn yellow turing a pet swap. As the hellmine I was attacking did, the whm casted holy on it and took claim. Ok fine be a jerk. Next hellmine I pulled I was pet swapping again, I mischarmed a beetle and casted Tame on it. Lost aggro, and while waiting for my charm timer to reset, the whm charms the beetle I just used Tame on and then claimed my hellmine that had went yellow during the proccess. This happens a couple more times before I place a GM call.

While waiting for the GM, an alliance of around 15 players decend upon the basement to get a coffer key for 1 lv 52 player. Not only killing all the key dropping mobs (skellies, ghosts, weapons, pots and mines) they start killing all the beetles and bats.

GM finally gets to me after about 20 minutes and I explain to him my situation and in true GM fashion did nothing but repeat "It's not a violation of ToS, if the mob is yellow its fairgame" I think he repeated that line about 5-6 times during our conversation.

I explained to him, this guy was following me around at times, taking my pets and mobs, causing me to nearly die a few times. He said what he was doing is OK. I understand the fair game rule. Yea that's cool if its yellow ok I get it, but the thing is BST gameplay is different than normal XP gameplay. The GM assured me that he knows how all the jobs play.

So I posed a scenario for him. If a group of lv. 75 players went to valkrum and provoked all those crabs away from the lv. 15 pt's as they are about to pull and ending all gameplay for 30 or so people, would that be ok? He replies: "Yes, there is nothing wrong with that"

Then I asked him what should I do in the future if I come across this sort of thing again. This is what leads me to believes that not all GMs know wtf they are talking about. He says "You can either use 1 pet or leave". I replied "Well, we used to use only pet but you guys effectively took that out with the mpk patch" He didnt have anything to say and asked "Is there anything else I can help you with today?"

To make things short, you can be an ass all you want and chances are, the GM will actually take your side than the person you are harassing.

[neighbortaru]

Re: Terms of Service?

ugh, that sucks to hear.

someone else posted something similar (but they were leveling their NPC fellow) and the GMs did nothing.

you used to be able to claim griefing in situations like this, but nowadays they'll just feed you the "yellow is fair game" line.

unfortunately there's nothing you can do when this happens other than log off and grab a beer.

Edited:
btw: haven't tried this before, but somepage lists some mobs in U Range that might be XP-able
http://ffxi.somepage.com/mobdb/list.php?zone=126

[Omni]

Re: Terms of Service?

yea i know there really isnt anything you can do but its such a load of crock. you can just ruin xp for everyone and its OK, not only ok, its GM approved.

[Thoronas]

Re: Terms of Service?

Bst's are particularly screwed when it comes to mobs going yellow. In order for us to exp we have to maintain the minimum hate possible on ourselves in order to pet swap like you were doing. This of course leads to the exact problem you were having, I feel bad for ya man. I couldn't get out of that hell-hole fast enough.

Do yourself a favour and go to Tor Canal in windurst. Just sic impish bats vs the undead, the exp isnt great but you are left alone and most bst know of several other spots deeper in if they find you already camped at the zone line. Just dont go anywhere near the undead with yellow hp

Edit: I'll add a little story of some of the BS I had to endure in that place. So I was in the exact same place you were after being exiled from behind gate 2 due to my own stupidity. Im doing fine for myself as it was kind of slow that night for exp pts.

Suddenly 6 taru blm with no subs, no ls and names like usushsushs show up. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out who they were. Whats worse they've decided to exp mana burn style on my pets. Im pissed off but I know that there isn't a damn thing I can do about it as I watch them nuke what was going to be my 2nd pet for a hellmine. So I release and pray I can find another one before they do.

As I am running around to find another pet I see the hellmine pass the blm pt. Just as it does one of them uses an aga spell and sure enough it hits the hellmine. What happened next had me laughing for over an hour. It proceeded to rape each and everyone one of those little gil sellings SOB's. Even better one of them turns out to actually have a whm sub and guess what he does... Curaga. So I sic my pet on it, which instantly claims it as mine but the pet has no hate so the bomb just continues to wail on them, by this point 2 of them are dead and the others are not far behind.

They eventually all die, HP and Im left to exp by myself again. But being gil sellers they tend not to learn from their mistakes so they return about 45 mins later. This time Im releasing pets near them while they rest and saying "[danger]" to cover my ass. They don't know whats going on until the beetle starts aggroing them and they dont have the mp to fight back. Out of all the bull shit I had to endure there, the fact that one night I got to totally own a party of gil sellers almost made it worth the hell that place is. But not really....

[Brodrik]

Re: Terms of Service?

The Terms of Service are there primarily to legally proctect Square-Enix in running the game as they want. Their intentions are to make the game enjoyable, but it's not simple to do so while also being fair to all players. Of course, you'll always think of the situation as being unfair. However, would you really prefer if GMs could just use their best judgement in situations such as this? How would things go for you when someone called a GM on you for some action or another and they got to use their best judgement. :p This is why GMs more or less have to stick to the Terms of Service -- written rules.

[Erci]

Re: Terms of Service?

Knowing what i do about the ToS and its enforcement by the GMs, I really don't bother
to do a Call unless it's something VERY Obvious, Obnoxious, and clearly against the ToS.
Preferably with easily readable evidence for the GMs to read. I have 0 calls made to GMs
in my stats from the adventurer appreciation event.

Making a Call otherwise is a waste of time otherwise IMO, there are plenty of other things
that I can do while waiting on an idiot or mildly malicious person to move on.

I've only seen 2 GM calls conducted, both MPK calls, both pre MPK-patch. One wound up
as a warning, the other I don't recall off hand, as it was a long time ago.

To put it simply: I would hate to be a GM, they are soooooo hogtied when it comes to
really helping the players. The fact that they would have to deal with a language barrier
possibly due to both the JP and NA populations in game is another complication, and
is somewhat unique to FFXI I think. I bet some of them REALLY hate their jobs being
restricted so badly thanks to the legal realities.

Basically, if someone ruins my day, I walk off and wait for them to finish, or find another
camp. Doing that with Garlaige currently... I'm avoiding it like the plauge, since it's such
a pain to get to the good camp, and impossible not to compete with the normies in the
basement.

I feel for you, and the futility of many situations makes it all the worse.

Nothing to be done however, unless you can make a game just like this, only with your
own rules.

[Bov]

Re: Terms of Service?

/console Omni

I'm sorry man. As was stated above the ToS is NOT intended to protect/help us...it's intended to protect/help SE. It's basically a long intentionally-complicated "No shirt, no shoes, no service" sign posted, so that they have something to point to when they suspend/ban someone.

The only thing that protects you from other players in Garlaige Citadel basement is common courtesy, which can be in short supply.

My advice is: get behind door #2 (much less drama there); find another camp in a different zone; or go get some ENM xp.

Here's a link to a lvl 58 camp thread, in which I posted some info on fighting worms and bats in Ullegurand Range. Other people have some good advice too.

[neighbortaru]

Re: Terms of Service?

Hmm, is there a particular ENM that we are good at?

[Omni]

Re: Terms of Service?

Thanks guys.

I actually have tried going behind gate #2 several times, but due to my own tardedness, something always happens and I get a free ride to my hp.

I've ventured to Ulegeurand Range on 2 occassions at 58 and nothing cons less than T there. I think I found 1 worm that was an EM. All hares, bats and such were T.

Well, I logged on last night to find another 58 bst in the basement. We teamed up and cleaned up the whole basement for about 6k in less than 2 hrs.

Yea, as nt said, which enm are we good at? is it one we can do solo?

taru edit: oh yea, im 4k into 59 now. i dont need that hell hole anymore. snowy paths and remote areas, here i come! (read: u. range)

[Bov]

Re: Terms of Service?

Nothing is soloable until Pulling the Strings at lvl 60. However the crag ENMs are pretty easy with a well-balanced group and maybe a couple animas. 5-6 BSTs with jugs destroy them, might be doable with less too. Those are 30 cap. Also, if you are on CoP 3-5 the Diremite ENM is cake. That one is 40 cap and gives 3k xp and a shot at a woodsman ring drop.

I personally haven't taken advantage of ENM xp as much as I should have. I'm currently trying to make an ENM static within my LS for these 4 ENMs. It's potentially 12k xp/week with chances and nice drops in each one.


edit: changed 40k to 40 cap