BST more party friendly?

[Armando]

Re: BST more party friendly?

Omni, I think I misinterpreted what you were arguing. I thought we were arguing about BST's ability to DD, but after the more recent posts it looks more to me like you were arguing about why a BST would want to DD in a party when they have so much competition and have to deal with every other hassle that can come with partying. If that's what you were arguing, then I'll give you that - being a DD and seeking for parties is never cool.

And please, please, please don't even bother comparing a normal Rampage to a Mighty Striked Rampage If all hits connect, Mighty Strikes can add 200-300 damage to the WS easily PLUS any Double Attacks that would also have been critical. And the BST wasn't subbing WAR? That's not a fair comparison either, because he's missing out on a massive attack boost (Berserk), an Attack+10 trait, and Double Attack I haven't seen a BST and a WAR do Rampages side by side but I just can't see where any overwhelming difference could come from. Given that they'd both have access to Attack Up (WAR gets only one,) Double Attack, and Berserk, and that they both have access to the same gear (RK/RG armor, thick armor, hauby/byrnie, etc.) the only thing the WAR would have on the BST would be Aggressor, and most people eat Sushi now so that would make the acc boost from Aggressor not be as significant for Rampage's damage as it would've been pre-Sushi, unless they're both trying it on some IT+++ mob, and even then...I just don't see it. WAR doesn't have some innate "I kick more ass than you" trait. A BST and a WAR using axes are practically the same thing. WAR can sub other things without sacrificing Berserk/Double Attack, but BST has a pet. And yeah NIN sub isn't that great for DDing...Dual Weild can't make up for lack of Berserk.

Now what I'd like to know is how much a jug pet can do on IT mobs and how does the total BST + Pet damage compare to other DDs. I can talk theory all I want but without numbers it's not really that meaningful

Also, Evangelion, Omni-Ragnarok isn't trying to put the job down, he's trying to look at it realistically.

[Macht]

Re: BST more party friendly?

Ok, now there a point in the threads were people seemed to start taking pot shots at eachother instead of making a sound rebuttal. I appreciate Omni-Ragnarocks willingness to take a serious look at the change, and if he's willing to make sound tests to show BST/??? in combination with other jobs that are stated to be good then I respect him for it.

Just he better be ready for me to pick that data apart to make sure we truely have covered every ground and situation

[Omni]

Re: BST more party friendly?

Omni, I think I misinterpreted what you were arguing. I thought we were arguing about BST's ability to DD, but after the more recent posts it looks more to me like you were arguing about why a BST would want to DD in a party when they have so much competition and have to deal with every other hassle that can come with partying. If that's what you were arguing, then I'll give you that - being a DD and seeking for parties is never cool.

Also, Evangelion, Omni-Ragnarok isn't trying to put the job down, he's trying to look at it realistically.

thank you. atleast someone reads what i say. this is what i have been saying all along. we go from having our own time to do whatever we want and however we want to being nudged into playing in a pt, and pushing ourselves to now have to compete with all the other decked out DD at that. i just cant take someone seriously when they talk out of their ass and dont try to read anything ive said let alone ask me if i have ever played bst. straight up retarded.

macht: feel free to make suggestions about other factors that might/should be considered.

wishmaster: i know that being at lvl 40 is not the ideal lvl to make an evaluation of bst. BUT this is the lvl i am at. this is the situation i am facing with this update. this is the lvl at which i need am being nudged to try pt's more. so this is all i can do for now. as tdh said, there might be some levels where the xp flew but after a certain range, it drops off dramatically for bst. anyhow, this is what i have to test.

i didnt have much time to test anything last night. dead tired from being at work 11 hours. but i got my pt gear in shape. double checked that my parser is functional and i'm ready to start seeking whenever i get the time to.

pt gear goes something like this:

barbaroi axe
combat caster's axe (/nin)
strike sheild (/war, /thf)
emperor hairpin
beetle earring+1 x2
spike necklace
ryl. sqr. chainmail
wonder mitts
nomad's mantle
ryl. sqr. breeches
wonder clomps
tilt belt
puissance ring x2
venerer ring
sniper's ring

i have bought 2 different types of food to use. sole sushi and mithkabobs.
depending on what the other melee uses, i'll match what they use so variances due to food will be at a minimum. note, i am also a taru so race variances might be a factor also. i am going to try to log several pt's worth of fights before i post any results. given my rl schedule and usual seeking time, dont expect anything instant. i will be as diligent as possible.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: BST more party friendly?

>.>;;; I know some melees who have multiple jobs post 70 that don't gear like that. Don't be suprised if there is an excessive amount of PWNage when you DD. And I suggest trying to form your own pts, and going as /anon

[Omni]

Re: BST more party friendly?

yea ill try forming my own but i usually only have 2-3 hours max on weeknights to play. weekends tend to be more haphazard. sometimes i can play all afternoon sometimes im not even home. i try to boost my attack/str b/c more often than not, melee i will be teaming with are not taru. just to make the fields even a bit. i do have acc gear to strap on but with the advent of sushi, ive never had all that much use for excessive amounts of acc.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: BST more party friendly?

< BST 5

Now would be a perfect time to raise BST, because, well, I have nothing to look forward to, so instead of 35levels of grinding gears, it's a resentful acceptence of the inevitable. At least I didnt have time to get spoiled =[

I'm gonna farm as a RDM75/BST37 and see how that goes, lol. I remember the fun I had as RDM60/BST1 when I charmed(after about 6 attempts) a tiger in Battalia and went nuts. I can't imagine how much fun farming would be with Sic and Leave and stuff. I wanna run around Qufim with the Kraken just to be imposing on the obnoxious undead.

See that, BST can still be fun! Chin up! At least you're richer than a good percentage of the players that arent sky whores or THFs ;.;

[Thoronas]

Re: BST more party friendly?

Some dmg parsing from higher lvl bst

On their own bst can't do as much dmg as some DD but they aren't THAT terrible from the numbers I've seen. The pet in many cases pushes us just that little bit further. Yes other DD have other things to offer but we still have ways of contributing to a pt. From some of the data people have presented, jug pets do better than a drg's wyvern depending on the pet.

I think bst is definately more pt friendly since jugs are no longer an exp leech. I'm curious to see how a fungaur jug would work in a pt at my lvl since they are like 800 gil a piece in kazham.

[Omni]

Re: BST more party friendly?

i read through that post earlier today and it does look very promising. some of the posters do explain that with equal quality equips war/nin or drk do pile on more of the dmg. also, when doing xping off deco weapons, high dmg is expected. looks very nice i have to admit. it does make us more friendly than before but i'd hate to say that this sort of scenario is not why most of us took up the job in the first place.

i am looking forward to seeing what my parse info has to offer to this discussion. i think a great analysis would be a bst in the 60s give some parse data. mid 60s is a nice meaty chunk of xp where jobs start to fully develop while mobs are still challanging and chain 5s take more effort than spamming ws and -ga spells.

[Armando]

Re: BST more party friendly?

Nice find, Thoronas ^^ Courier Carrie did about half the BST's damage overall, which is quite a bit. I've only parsed 2-3 parties that had DRG in them, but generally the Wyvern did around 1/3 of the DRG's damage (with some great accuracy, though, as opposed to Carrie's high damage and below-average acc.) CC is one of the "uncapped" BST pets though? And is it cheap enough for any BST to take advantage of?

[Omni]

Re: BST more party friendly?

CC is about 20k iirc on remora a stack. not too bad.
i have a few different jugs on me i currently want to test. CC, tigerFamiliar, antlionFamiliar and funguarFamiliar. CC is indeed one of the uncapped jugs. i think there are a few other, the only other one i can think off right now is the sabotender one. i think those are quite pricey though.

[Armando]

Re: BST more party friendly?

That's pretty affordable. Here's another thought: how do mob TP moves come into play in parties? Some mobs have TP moves with effects that are rare commodities for players (like Evasion Down from Bats and Beetles.) I know Sic is kinda random, but are there any jug pets with abilities that are valuable to the party?

[Omni]

Re: BST more party friendly?

each pet type has its typical tp moves associated with it.
there are the nice ones such as sickle slash, acid mist, jet stream etc. but there are also quite a few useless ones especially if your pet doesnt have hate. such as metallic shield, waterwall, eva up+, etc.

things like evasion down is great, but also can miss regularly on tougher mobs. i had bats miss evasion down quite a few times. all in all, the useful ones balance out the not so useful.

[Thoronas]

Re: BST more party friendly?

List of jug pets and what lvl they cap.
panzer galahad is another jug that caps at 75 but it is also a very high level jug. Its a HQ of a low lvl woodworking synth so I can't imagine it would be hard to make. I'm pretty sure the HQ antlion jug is lvl 75 capped. Some bsts on alla said chopsuey chuckey could actually SOLO maat so I'd imagine he's quite strong but he's also quite expensive.

From the way it sounds now, CC and maybe the funguar are the best jugs to use in pt when comparing price and results. I think the funguar would be better due to nice TP attacks but then again I haven't tried it yet. At higher lvls panzer may be good in parties as well because most of his tp attacks aren't aoe(Hi-Freq field being the only aoe).

[WishMaster3K]

Re: BST more party friendly?

Which are the newest jug pets added? I've read that they are grossly overpowered, lol

[Omni]

Re: BST more party friendly?

the ones at the top of the list are the newer ones.
i like antlion familiar ;p its funny to have a giant antlion following my taruself.