BST more party friendly?

[Armando]

Re: BST more party friendly?

Macht, it's good to know I'm not just being seen as some random guy who doesn't know what he's talking about Honestly my BST is just 15, so I can't back myself up with first-hand experience (though at least my WAR is 45 and I experimented a lot with dual weilded axes and great axe....)

Coinspinner, it could be that way. I mean, BST definetely has more innate tools to solo than to party, but I doubt SE would intend for BST to be completely excluded from the partying scene. SAM might've originally been a tank. I mean, when you have Rice Balls with +50 Attack *and* Defense, and enmity on your AF, and an AF piece that spikes TP occasionally when you're hit...not to mention Third Eye, which isn't anything huge, but it certainly doesn't hurt...plus, you could spam WS for hate...I wouldn't know but it seems feasable to me.

And Omni-Ragnarok, I understand that you could potentially have a better backup tank, but you won't always pick a WAR/NIN over another DD just because it can backup tank, would you? And according to Macht, if the BST/WAR can outdamage the often overhyped Rampage-spamming WAR/NINs, how is it a mediocre DD? The total damage is still very good, so the only excuse not to invite the BST would be because he doesn't fit in the skillchain. And Fuidama Rampage is about as good as Dual-Weilded Rampage, which is what every WAR/NIN fawns over. The only edge dual-weilded Rampage could have over a SATA Rampage would be whatever bonuses the off-hand weapon provides. Something doesn't add up. Either Rampage isn't as good as all the WARs make it out to be, or it really is that good and a BST could do similar damage.

Anyways, I'm looking forward to your jug pet data. I've been curious about their damage potential for a while now ^^

Lol...if pets could skillchain with their TP moves, wouldn't that mean links could skillchain with each other? XD

[tdh]

Re: BST more party friendly?

And Omni-Ragnarok, I understand that you could potentially have a better backup tank, but you won't always pick a WAR/NIN over another DD just because it can backup tank, would you? And according to Macht, if the BST/WAR can outdamage the often overhyped Rampage-spamming WAR/NINs, how is it a mediocre DD? The total damage is still very good, so the only excuse not to invite the BST would be because he doesn't fit in the skillchain. And Fuidama Rampage is about as good as Dual-Weilded Rampage, which is what every WAR/NIN fawns over. The only edge dual-weilded Rampage could have over a SATA Rampage would be whatever bonuses the off-hand weapon provides. Something doesn't add up. Either Rampage isn't as good as all the WARs make it out to be, or it really is that good and a BST could do similar damage.

I've seen a BST75 Vs a WAR70 during coffer key party. WAR's Rampage almost doubled the BST's Rampage. Both sub'd NIN. Through out 2 hours, the BST never came close to the WAR's damage with Rampage. I guess this could be chalked up to higher WAR STR, Attack, and gear. But 400-500dmg for BST, and 900-1300 for WAR seems like a big difference.

Lol...if pets could skillchain with their TP moves, wouldn't that mean links could skillchain with each other? XD

Now this would be funny. Orcs doing Skillchains on you in a train in Palborough mines. haha

[Evengelion]

Re: BST more party friendly?

rampage on /war im sure puts out some decent numbers but im sure your renkei partner has already been waiting for you by now. like i said, not bad numbers, just why not get a war to do it then? you get tankability too with war/nin. not to mention war/nin adding in bloodsword or some other +str/atk trait on your off hand coupled with the extra hit dual wield gives you on ws.

I am SURE you have never Played a Bst Let alone Party with one and also u have never parsed the dmg done by Bst + pet Have you?

The Dmg Output of say a Bst/War = to a one handed Warrior. we get almost the same equipment or better in fact if we go full str setup that is. this is minimal compaired that war can sub nin to get 2 attacks instead of one but are you forgetting our pet? lets just put jugs up instead. don't talk about EM mobs after this stupid patch that is another dmg potential up to "Another Player" if you parse the dmg u will know how powerful pets are even if it is a jug only problem is jugs have little hp compaired to EM mobs.

It was parsed by someone in Alla before that Bst are the most powerful DD's in game that is if they have a pet u seem to forget the dmg the pet dishes out so please check your numbers before you shoot you mouth saying Bst can't do jack when it comes to being a DD.

With correct Food and not to mention we are one of the richest jobs around due to easy farming and not much expensive Equipment to buy, we have access to expensive equipment your average War/nin cannot get in a shot time. we can easily out dmg your tankable war/nin you also neglect to forget if there is a need we can also charm links tame and save the party if the spot permits.

Please level Your Bst to a Good Level and Use a jug on a T/IT with someone else tanking and see if your pet dishes out good dmg in some cases you pet will even outdmg you. try a shroom pet or maybe a Tiger before u say anything.

Btw Omni-Ragnarok it seem every post you have posted in this forum u have doomed Bst to oblivion what do u have against Bst? cos we can level faster then u seeking all the time or is it you are jealous?

[Omni]

Re: BST more party friendly?

I am SURE you have never Played a Bst Let alone Party with one and also u have never parsed the dmg done by Bst + pet Have you?

are you sure? are you really really sure?

what do i have against bst? nothing. i love the job. I AM A BST TOO. not as high as you, but if you took the time to read anything ive ever posted or even the little siggy thing at the bottom of all my posts you would see that i am bst and i am deeply saddened at the fact that my ability and choice to solo has been narrowed down. i have played bst solo and in pt before. i have used my pet. as far as damning it into oblivion, its quite the opposite. please take the time to read the context of everything before you start making claims about me and what i say.

just to show you that you dont read here is what i said in this very thread itself:

as far as jug pets go. i will bring you some hard data to review. ill take CC, arguably the best or most versatile jug pet there is into a xp pt at lv. 40 and i will tell you how it goes. dmg done, dmg taken, accuracy, weaponskill effectiveness will be what i am looking for. if there is any other catagory you would like to add to how well the jug pet performs, let me know.

now how would i do this if i dont have a bst to do it with? cmon, use that head of yours.

why dont you check yourself before you start shooting off at the mouth. so why dont you come correct if you are going to come at all so you dont make yourself look like a fool.

[Evengelion]

Re: BST more party friendly?

The main reason that everyone regards Bst so low in the DD market is due to the fact that we are not party friendly as we tend to reject partying to begin with.

When you ask a bst to party they will say "Sorry i'm busy". So it is known to the Community that Bst is a SOLO job and can do jack shit in a party it is nothing to do with us being a lousy DD.

Let me ask you, would u like to seek for an 1hr setup party and hr and go to spot start leveling and getting about 6-8k an hr or to find pt sucks and get 2k an hr OR would u rather go to location 10mins and start getting 3k an hr That is Y bst Reject parties. In the First place How do u think we can make 3k an hr SOLO killing the SAME mobs you kill but at a slightly higher level? Becos our dmg output is high simple Logic.

I bet half of non-bst won't agree cos y everyone is ignorant about bst cos they are sooo arrogant they take your xp spots steal mobs from you MPK all these are all what people think cos they don't party with one so they assume it only.

[Omni]

Re: BST more party friendly?

The main reason that everyone regards Bst so low in the DD market is due to the fact that we are not party friendly as we tend to reject partying to begin with.

When you ask a bst to party they will say "Sorry i'm busy". So it is known to the Community that Bst is a SOLO job and can do jack shit in a party it is nothing to do with us being a lousy DD.

Let me ask you, would u like to seek for an 1hr setup party and hr and go to spot start leveling and getting about 6-8k an hr or to find pt sucks and get 2k an hr OR would u rather go to location 10mins and start getting 3k an hr That is Y bst Reject parties. In the First place How do u think we can make 3k an hr SOLO killing the SAME mobs you kill but at a slightly higher level? Becos our dmg output is high simple Logic.

I bet half of non-bst won't agree cos y everyone is ignorant about bst cos they are sooo arrogant they take your xp spots steal mobs from you MPK all these are all what people think cos they don't party with one so they assume it only.

omgosh, if you have READ ANYTHING in here, let alone the large topic that neighbortaru started called "That's all folks" you would know that this is what ive been saying ALL DAY LONG. here is even a link for you if you can find the time to read it: http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=52003

READ PLEASE

seriously, get your foot out of your mouth.

[Evengelion]

Re: BST more party friendly?

Omni-Ragnarok

From what i have read in the few Threads here you have been saying time and time again that There are soooo many other jobs IE every job in FFxi that does better dmg then us BSTs.
You claim you are a BST so Y are you condamning us? u keep saying they have sooo many Pro we have soooo many cons...
You are sooo pessimistic that u actually believe that we are so useless in parties that no one will choose us over a mnk a war a thf etc etc
Parse the data you claim to be gathering then come to this forum and boast about how high bst dmg is i am not saying the BIG numbers u get from SCs i am talking about RAW Dps our TPs might be slower but not that much as you so claim.

Unless the Community changes it's view on Bst however Getting That DD spot will be VERY hard it is not that they are better it is just that the community think that we suck that's all.

Double Post Edited:
You don't have to post the link COS I did post in that thread as well and i DID read that thread you have been saying we suck from that thread as well and basically even if you so claim NO.... i wasn't saying that You sure implied it in all your posts

[Omni]

Re: BST more party friendly?

ok you know what, you win. you're lack of understanding, reading and overall comprehension just baffles me. i told you to read what i have read, but you dont. i told you to look at the context at what i have posted these words, but you dont. dont say from what you have read, because you are lying through your teeth and by what you say, you demostrate you have read nothing.

we do have lots of pros. one of them being the only job with the freedom to go out whenever they want and however they want and get xp at a decent, sometimes great, rate. now that has been made even more difficult for us. i have worked really hard to get to 35, and was just beginning to enjoy playing bst till this update occured. like you said, why pt when you can solo for the same or better xp? thats what i have been saying all along. i also have been saying, that now we need to compete with war, mnk, thf, sam, drg, rng for that dd spot now. i also have been saying that we do decent dmg. but like you said, it is hard to get that dd spot given the community and the way bst have chosen to play. i chose bst b/c i dont have time to play ffxi as i used to. i love the job b/c i can be productive even given 2 hours of playing time. now, i'm being pushed to pt now, which is not the reason why i picked up the job in the first place.

anyhow, this doesnt matter anyways, since you will not read anything i say nor try to comprehend it. since this is the case, i have nothing left to say to you.

[lionx]

Re: BST more party friendly?

I've seen a BST75 Vs a WAR70 during coffer key party. WAR's Rampage almost doubled the BST's Rampage. Both sub'd NIN. Through out 2 hours, the BST never came close to the WAR's damage with Rampage. I guess this could be chalked up to higher WAR STR, Attack, and gear. But 400-500dmg for BST, and 900-1300 for WAR seems like a big difference.

Not to say you are wrong or anything but while that might be true BSTs in general do not have STR setups or anything refferring to DDing, so if they sub WAR and maybe got some more DDing type gear instead of CHR and other Charm stuff, it may be a little different. Just wanted to say that @_@ unless that person DOES have STR gear...

[Evengelion]

Re: BST more party friendly?

IT is not that i don't understand you view point but that is a Solo aspect of game play you are SO referring to but u do not see it in a Party Setup aspect that is what baffles me in all your post.

You keep insisting that it is us having problems with our job not the people having problems with our job. if u condition yourself we still become the ideal DD setup it is just it take alot of money to get there like every other job.

For us to have 2 types of gear also sucks cos we need SOLO gear and PT gear now so we are no longer a Cheap job to play it is not like what u say we can't it is we don't want to.

Yes The Developers made it Fooking hard to Solo now and seem like Forcing us to compete for the DD spot but u forget that it is the community and what we have done to Earn this reputation the job has.

What You should be doing is not Keep saying we are worse then every other job cos we can't do this we can't do that, we have our own skills that put us UP THERE. it is the Dps that gets us the spot not what we can do with our subjob skills.

Just Wait it out they might make us even more powerful then we are as of now. BUT This still Forces us to Party which sucks imo cos we are a job who is able to fit peoples schedules instead of party all the time.
Maybe IF we all combine and Make it know we have a VERY high DPS maybe we will be sought after like rangers but if u keep having the mentality that we suck it won't change anything.

[Omni]

Re: BST more party friendly?

IT is not that i don't understand you view point but that is a Solo aspect of game play you are SO referring to but u do not see it in a Party Setup aspect that is what baffles me in all your post.

no, that is the point. you dont understand what im saying. heck, you even thought i wasnt a bst. heck you even thought i didnt play bst solo or in pt. that is the point. think what you want. i love this job just as much as you do. i makes me very upset that we have to be changed to accomodate a few bad apples even though the mpk issue was necessary. this job has taken me to places in vana`diel i would have never seen with a normal pt. think what you will.

[tdh]

Re: BST more party friendly?

Not to say you are wrong or anything but while that might be true BSTs in general do not have STR setups or anything refferring to DDing, so if they sub WAR and maybe got some more DDing type gear instead of CHR and other Charm stuff, it may be a little different. Just wanted to say that @_@ unless that person DOES have STR gear...

I'll admit that I don't know the gear of the BST. But the WAR didn't have his Hauby at the time, and no Bomb core. I just know the BST had a SH on.

I thought about a BST going /WAR and letting the extra STR and Berserk & Warcry help out. And I'll admit that the 1300dmg Rampage was Mighty Striked, but most of the time it was a 2:1 damage ratio.

[Evengelion]

Re: BST more party friendly?

Bst Equipment is very similar to War equipment and definately Bst will have a lower DPS even with the same equipment becos they don't have the extra atk boost from higher war ability but it will hit somewhere maybe 3/4 of the war Not 1/1 But that is without taking into consideration the pet dmg. when u add pet dmg into this bst will out dmg the war also u get 1 pet SC atleast in almost every fight as well. this dmg slowly adds up slowly but surely. it is not like BLM doing 10k dmg in 3mins

[revoir]

Re: BST more party friendly?

by the way.. if SE did not change it.. you can skill chain with your pet's Sic...
i did it before.. after watching my lvl 75 bst friend skill chain with his Courier Carrie..
but rememeber which sic with which ws since its ages ago.. and i left FF for like nearly half a year.. but planning to come back

[WishMaster3K]

Re: BST more party friendly?

Omni, you're a great guy, honestly, you even have good grammer and things of that nature. But having you say things about BST from your point of view was like me at lvl 45 saying how much Refresh wasn't really needed and so forth and so on.

You obviously have multiple higher jobs, not taking that from you, but in this particular area (BST), you're not at the level where you can personally see your versatility. I JUST got to the level where, with a STR/ACC/EVA build, I can do some dangerous things as RDM/NIN. That's because of the gear available to me.

At the 40s, what can DDs get? Royal Knight's Chainmail at most? A BST with 1h Axe in addition to Hauby/Hauberk and a STR build is dangerous, Christ, look at the gear BST can get. . . Unless I'm mistaken, isn't the Thick gear WAR/DRK/BST???

I'm only NIN25, and it's hard, but I'm not basing my opinion of NIN tanking on what I've done, simply because I've seen so many NINs do so many different things over the course of the game. After NI(Which is FOUR shadows and like a 1.5 second cast time =^_^=) and NIN Eva/Parry really pulls away from the crowd and Eva gear and sushi and an entire wealth of factors comes into play, especially after mid-gamin 50s, NINs can be effective DDs as well as Tanks, AT the same time

I've seen a BST75 Vs a WAR70 during coffer key party. WAR's Rampage almost doubled the BST's Rampage. Both sub'd NIN. Through out 2 hours, the BST never came close to the WAR's damage with Rampage. I guess this could be chalked up to higher WAR STR, Attack, and gear. But 400-500dmg for BST, and 900-1300 for WAR seems like a big difference.

tdh, you're breaking my heart to say that ;.; Especially cause the Rampage was MSed. That's not a fair comparison, lol! Even gimp WARs do 400 on Rampage, and Leet Wars do above 900. Coffer PT where? I know that coffer mobs do not exceed the 66 lvl range, so they'd be DC to even the lvl 70WAR. But then again. 900 is possible, but it's also possible that the BST simply missed a few hits. With the SAME gear, not even the same Stats, gear-wise, BST and WAR (even being 5 lvls apart) should have comparable damage on DC mobs to the lowest member.

Oh and don't even mention BST/NIN, that's nothing in the way of DD. BST/NIN, maybe with a pet out could do comparable DoT to a WAR, but it's unlikely. You don't see a job like BST, that does not have it's own Atk boosts or abilities, sub NIN and expect to do anything compared to a WAR with Berserk, Warcry and the latent STR boosts? That's like comparing WAR GS skill to DRK GS skill post Spinning Slash. >.>