BST more party friendly?

[revoir]

Is BST a more party friendly job now with the new patch that makes jug pets takes no exp froms u .. meaning u still get 100% exp with ur jug pet out.. this way... BST can contribute more as a damage dealer to the party.. without being in an area with both EM and IT monsters

[Armando]

Re: BST more party friendly?

Not a BST, so I can't say much, but I was hanging around Kazham and saw a Yuhtunga party with three BSTs...wasn't parsing or anything so I can't talk about accuracy, but the jug pets were hitting for some respectable numbers.

[Delson]

Re: BST more party friendly?

ive noticed more bsts in partys lately

[little ninja]

Re: BST more party friendly?

party friendly? yeah right. maybe if there were no other DD on, an no other mage jobs would we be taken in a pt set up. just think of all the DD we'd be behind. blm,rng,war,sam,mnk,drk,thf,drg. then bringing up the rear BST.

now you want to know about jug pets. lets say your a poor bst. your prob running around with crab familars. basically these are D/C pets. in a party set up youd be sending them into battle against mobs IT++ an then some. witch means thats a bunch wiffs. ( a little story, i was getting my bst af armor, i sent my C.C at 2 quadav to get my coffer. i barely got my af an triggered my warp cudel before i was beat down on.

if bst wasnt ment to solo, whats with all the charm gear. if we were never ment to move mobs around freely. then whats witht eh + charmt he AF gives.

[Armando]

Re: BST more party friendly?

Just a thought: being able to possibly charm an IT or even just a T mob can save a party, be it a link or when needing to escape/fight a mob that's too strong.

Honestly, I know BST isn't designed towards DDing but you're not THAT behind. You gain access to good DDing armor, and yeah, you don't have Berserk or Sneak Attack innately, but neither do most DDs. Sub WAR for Berserk and you should be able to do at least decent damage. I haven't partied in the post-50 levels yet but I can see it being viable pre-50. I don't think money should be an issue, either. Many jobs have to pay a lot to party, and if BST soloes so much they shouldn't they have a Beastmen's Seal advantage over other jobs?

I'm not pretending to know a lot about being a BST in parties, or that BST is the end-all DD or anything like that, but honestly, I don't see a good reason why they can't. A Dragoon's wyvern does about 1/3 the damage of the DRG on IT mobs and yet it's still a meaningful difference.

[Omni]

Re: BST more party friendly?

lets not get into this again...

the ability to 'possibly' save a pt from an add isnt a good enough reason to have a bst in a pt.

/war= 1 axe + shield
/thf= fuidama doesnt really go that nicely with 1h axe ws.

a bst can dd. just like a smn can heal or a rdm swinging a sword, but you can find other jobs that will do the job more effectively and efficiently.

[little ninja]

Re: BST more party friendly?

lol their is no way in hockey town can we charm an IT mob. seriouslt now, im sitting around with chr 70+20 an a apollo staff, an theres times i mischarm a freaking D/C. a lets just say we do charm a link, not only do we lose exp if the pts fighting a mob, theres no way you could move it far enough away before it uncharms an rapes you.

[Armando]

Re: BST more party friendly?

You still haven't given a reason why they can't DD though. You just said others can do it more efficiently, without saying why. BST gets the same axes as WAR, sometimes better (Wrath Tabar, for example) and all Axe WS. They also get a lot of the good DD armor like Haubergeon, the gigas bracelet line, Royal Knight's Breeches, Royal Guard's Collar, Life Belt, thick set, adaman set, Optical Hat, etc. The pet should be able to do some damage, too. I can't see where the huge damage deficiency is supposed to come from?

[Omni]

Re: BST more party friendly?

/war you get one 1h axe. its decent numbers but others still do the job better. have you seen a war whip out 1 axe and sheild? its OK. i had a war who forgot to sub nin and had thf sub, but we needed him to start light. anyhow, it was mediocre dmg from what i recall. tp gain was slow also.

/thf, lose double atk, lose beserk, lose warcry, lose atk bonuses, still have 1 axe. all this for fuidama mistral? rather have a sam, rng or drg even to open light. cant pull hate if needed either. tp gain even slower.

/nin only for dual wield. no double atk, no berserk, warcry or atk bonuses. utsusemi would be useful for aoe but no way to pull hate if needed.

i didnt say they cant do dmg, just not as efficient as others imo. on remora, theres always plenty of war, sam, thf, drg seeking. why go with bst when you have those? when you want to merit or xp as fast as you can at 74-75, you want jobs that can pump out the dmg as fast as possible.

[Armando]

Re: BST more party friendly?

Dual Weild is overrated in my opinion, but I'll buy that. Just one more thing...what about Rampage?

[Omni]

Re: BST more party friendly?

fuidama rampage? 5 hit skill and fuidama isnt the best thing. slight bonus but nothing giant in my book. my set pt drk was doing fuidama guillotine and the only time he cranks out big numbers on IT+ is with soul eater ending a chain 5.

rampage on /war im sure puts out some decent numbers but im sure your renkei partner has already been waiting for you by now. like i said, not bad numbers, just why not get a war to do it then? you get tankability too with war/nin. not to mention war/nin adding in bloodsword or some other +str/atk trait on your off hand coupled with the extra hit dual wield gives you on ws.

[Macht]

Re: BST more party friendly?

One of the annoying things you'll have to get use to here Armando, is many of the members here love to compaire results by what you gain and loose. It's a commonality among many players as well. They ignore the fact that possibly a BST/THF with 1h Axe using the right WS could get say 800+ for SA+WS and by the time the 1 min. count is up to do again of gotten another 720 for the 12 hits or so of 60 each. Not to also mention having their pet doing 60-80 in that same min. for quite a bit of damage. Say the pet did 12 hits also that's an extra 720-960 damage.

In total if above was the case that is 2,240 damage a min.


Doing BST/WAR and say Berserk boosts his damage to 80-100 a hit for 1 min. and say it's 12 hits. Along with their pet doing 60-80 and say it happens to also be 12 hits in that 1 min. Then that's 1,680 - 2,160 damage a min.

Do WAR/NIN with 2 1h Axes (WS not being factored at the moment, simply because I lack data of what would be resonable damage for axes) 60-80 damage for 24 hits in that 1 min. 1,440-1,920 damage. Berserked to say 80-100 damage it is 1,920 - 2,400 damage. Now of course even though dual wield lets you hit twice at a time you are ofcourse not hitting at the same speed as a person wield 1h Axe so the amount you hit would be like 20 hits in that 1 min. which changes the berserked to 1,600-2,000.

There is so many factors you'll see the members here ignore and so much that even the parsers ignore that it's rediculous. As far what I just showed it seems to state that BST/THF and BST/WAR has the potential to easily outdamage a WAR/NIN as long as they have a pet.

Remember those numbers just ones I pulled out and thought to be logical enough for the demonstration. It's all mostly to point out that just talking about playstyles without hard data to back it stupid and futile.

[Omni]

Re: BST more party friendly?

i repeat myself for a 3rd time. damage is decent. it works. but when you have 15 other war, thf, sam, drg, mnk seeking also, why would you want a bst that has less attributes and less to bring to the table? when you have a better renkei partner, a better back up tank, a better dmg dealer. not just 1 better, but 10 other better seeking at the same time. when pt play has been so beaten to death that people know what works and what is managable. why would you bring a bst into the picture other than the sake of novelty or the fact that there are no other melee seeking?

as far as jug pets go. i will bring you some hard data to review. ill take CC, arguably the best or most versatile jug pet there is into a xp pt at lv. 40 and i will tell you how it goes. dmg done, dmg taken, accuracy, weaponskill effectiveness will be what i am looking for. if there is any other catagory you would like to add to how well the jug pet performs, let me know.

to be continued...

[Coinspinner]

Re: BST more party friendly?

I wonder if BST became SOLO ONRY the way NIN became a tank. Square's vision for jobs has often failed to work out in-game.

[tdh]

Re: BST more party friendly?

From Lv.49 to Lv.54 the same BST kept inviting me. Each time he went as BST/NIN. And one of the times, we had another BST/NIN in the group. They'd tame some bats, and just before the kill they'd release them. EXP flew by big time!

Now I know jug pets won't do as much damage as a T-VT mob joining in the fight, however damage would be in the same range as a Wyvern, right?

AS far as the BSTs damage? I don't recall the damage being off the charts, however it was pretty decent EXP. Those parties gained a lot of EXP in a short amount of time. I don't see a problem with leveing with a BST around Lv.50. But at Lv.60+ I don't see how a party would invite one. DRK starts to come more into their own. More jobs can sub SATA, and of course there's Light/Darkness starting at Lv.65. I just don't see it happening.

What they should have done was made it so BST could Skillchain with their pet's Sic. Much like SMN doing a Skillchain with their Avatars.