That's all folks

[neighbortaru]

Re: That's all folks

slight problem with that Bal, the released pets do not respawn at the same toughness (confirmed over on blue garter forums)... oh this is complete shit.

btw 2k/hour was before. now, with this crap, we'd be lucky to pull 1k...

Are you saying it's not the same with RNG and NIN because it really isnt the same, or are you saying that because you arent a RNG or a NIN and as such you only admit it when youre really the one being targeted?

It's not the same.

[Omni]

Re: That's all folks

Are you saying it's not the same with RNG and NIN because it really isnt the same, or are you saying that because you arent a RNG or a NIN and as such you only admit it when youre really the one being targeted?

actually balfree, i am a nin and a rng. i am a 74 nin and a 61 rng as well as a 40 bst. so actually no im not just saying that b/c im being targeted. i played thru the nin changes, rng changes and it did not affect my xp/hr b/c i have 5 other members helping me grind out the xp. this update DOES. please try to understand this.

as far as your plan, looks great in a cozy zone.
lets take this scenario then.

1) look for pet, find pet near west/east altepa zone.
2) look for mob. find a mob near altepa gc.
3) choose to pull mob and run it back to pets beginning habitat near zone? or fight there?
ok lets run him back to his habitat like you suggested.
4) run back, fight, release, kill. xp gained.
5) find same pet after reappeared, run back out to middle of altepa find another mob.
6) step 3 again? well wouldnt matter, chain has been broken. so i guess ill just run him back.
7) gain xp like i did before 35.
**mind you this is taking into consideration that it would take only 1 pet to finish off your mob. what then? oh i think i'll just get myself that ever so bst wanting pt.

edit: oh so now our pet that we took time to find (to find i mean, correct mob type and correct con strength) after disappearing is not the same con now? so meaning after step 4, it might or might not be the right mob, so i'm back to step 1 again.

[Balfree]

Re: That's all folks

slight problem with that Bal, the released pets do not respawn at the same toughness (confirmed over on blue garter forums)... oh this is complete shit.

uh uh... your pet doesnt disappear if your in his habitat, he will stay there, just like before, so the process is after releasing:

1 Call jug.
2 Tell it to finish your enemy while you go looking for a new mob.
3 Pull the new found mob yourself while your Jug is fighting... you can time it right i'm sure.
4 Run back to where your released pet is and tell your hopefully-living jug to hit it and let it die.
5 Recharm your fully healed pet (who never despawned because you did move to his habitat) and order it to fight your enemy.

There's still the issue of having to look for an enemy and bringing him back all the way so you can remain using your first pet AND keeping the chain alive, but honestly... i don't think that's so bad as you make it sound.

How about not overusing the same pet all the time just so you can move to different spot?

I am drawing a scheme to make it look a bit more like i'm invisioning... ill be back.

[Omni]

Re: That's all folks

uh uh... your pet doesnt disappear if your in his habitat, he will stay there, just like before, so the process is after releasing:

1 Call jug.
2 Tell it to finish your enemy while you go looking for a new mob.
3 Pull the new found mob yourself while your Jug is fighting... you can time it right i'm sure.
4 Run back to where your released pet is and tell your hopefully-living jug to hit it and let it die.
5 Recharm your fully healed pet (who never despawned because you did move to his habitat) and order it to fight your enemy.

There's still the issue of having to look for an enemy and bringing him back all the way so you can remain using your first pet AND keeping the chain alive, but honestly... i don't think that's so bad as you make it sound.

How about not overusing the same pet all the time just so you can move to different spot?

I am drawing a scheme to make it look a bit more like i'm invisioning... ill be back.

go lvl bst just for a little bit. even with out release. just try it out. at times i spend 2-3 minutes finding a EM (sometimes settling for a dc) pet in a large zone. then i need to find the mob to attack. add up the minutes, chain has long been broken. you make it sound that every bst lvling area is just filled with EM pets and T mobs. thats not always true. i face a lot of DC/EM/T pets vs T/VT/IT mobs all the time. having to sort thru them while keeping chain isnt hard but it does take time.

different lvling spot? sure, if its safe to fight, plentiful pets AND mobs. heck, i'll just use Call Area and pop up my own little lvling area when i dont have a decent one. through slow lvls, there might only be 3-4 viable mobs in the whole area. what then? find another place? i wouldnt be in the first place if i didnt think it was my best choice. so goto a more poor lvling area for my lvl?

you lack experience. you are just reaching for points to debate on.

[neighbortaru]

Re: That's all folks

lol why am I being quoted as Jei??? o.O

go lvl bst just for a little bit. even with out release. just try it out. at times i spend 2-3 minutes finding a EM (sometimes settling for a dc) pet in a large zone. then i need to find the mob to attack. add up the minutes, chain has long been broken.

different lvling spot? sure, if its safe to fight, plentiful pets AND mobs. heck, i'll just use Call Area and pop up my own little lvling area when i dont have a decent one. through slow lvls, there might only be 3-4 viable mobs in the whole area. what then? find another place? i wouldnt be in the first place if i didnt think it was my best choice. so goto a more poor lvling area for my lvl?

you lack experience. you are just reaching for points to debate on.

word

[Balfree]

Re: That's all folks

which is better than bashing SE's changes no? atleast i'm giving more thought to it than most BSTs out there, i am sure.

Double Post Edited:
So i made a lil chart...

There are still defining issues, such as the zones being too broad, such as you not being able to run back fast enough, such as Call Beast having a 5min timer and such as the layout of the field simply not allowing you to move around freely...

Although remember that if Call Beast isnt ready, you are still in your camp... so you can leave your pet and finish the mob yourself, quickly recharm the pet, tell him to pull, tell him to Heel and come back to get another green pet because that one is probably toast, by then if you successfully kill a third pet you will end up with chain 2, which is pretty good no?

Howwwwwwwwwwwever, like you said i am inexperienced, this is the tactics i use but i dont even have jugs let alone Leave, i do like to settle in a camp and charm the pets that spawn around me, but sometimes i am forced to move, be it by lack of pets or because something that agros and will kill me on sight popped there.

Another approach would be simply going into a camp with lots of pets of the same kind, they probably all pop around the same area meaning their habitat is pretty much focused there, charm, pull, fight, release, kill (with or without jug, jug=faster chain simply because you dont need to release), charm a new one of the same kind and tell him to pull and yadda yadda...

BAH.. i'm really trying here you know -.- Jei, don't quit you minute little twat.

[Omni]

Re: That's all folks

balfree, your example is ideal. i'd love to have all my lvling zones like that.
here is my current situation. lv. 40. i have a few choices to goto, ive tried attowha, gc and altepa. i choose altepa for the saftey, space to roam and close to a town with an mog and AH.
attowha is a bit too low for 40 now, i was there from 38-39. gc is just rough due to linkages, low hp aggro and 5 pts crammed into the entrance way.

excuse me for my lame visual aid but here goes.

1: area where i find lots of beetles and dhamels. possible pets.
(if there are no pt's here lvling off beetles and dhamels, then balfree's example is ideal, however, this isnt the case hardly)

A, B, C: all possible mob areas.

as you know, altepa is pretty vast. pulling fighting and running for a new mob in this scenario isnt as chain efficient as would be your example. this scenarios happens to bst often.

not to mention, your EM vs T mob does need help fighting. if you just let it straight up fight with a T mob, half the time you will end up with a dead pet, and a mob with ~30% hp left. that leaves you with staying with your pet and help it melee. this leaves no time for you to find that other mob to continue your chain. your call beast jug pet only buys you time it doesnt provide sufficient dmg.

[neighbortaru]

Re: That's all folks

balfree, i'm not Jei. Jei has not even touched this thread yet.

There are still defining issues, such as the zones being too broad, such as you not being able to run back fast enough, such as Call Beast having a 5min timer and such as the layout of the field simply not allowing you to move around freely...

these are big issues that make or break your plan. it's nice on paper, but rarely happens in game.
Edit:
btw, you know where such conditions can happen? in normal xp camp spots. I'm sure everyone would love that...

BAH.. i'm really trying here you know -.- Jei, don't quit you minute little twat.

I'll assume you are talking to me here
My schedule nowadays is less than ideal for grinding. My sole hope for getting anywhere in this game was lvling BST. They've effectively killed that off. What would be the point of me staying then...

[Hyrist]

Re: That's all folks

I'm sorry, I'm always a little cynical after an update like these. Everyone cry's wolf or says their leaveing because of what they conister to be a 'major' inconvience.

Let me try to perdict a set of events here.

A group of old players who liked bst the old way will get angry and leave the job right after the update. However, some more dedicated players will stick with the job and still try to make it work.

On the same key, the update brings courious players into the job field and a new breed of the class is born, one who never knew the way it was before and accepts it as is, as a good thing.

All the wile the ability to MPK someone has been signifigantly deminished in the game, and the days where people fear BSTs in high level areas is over.

Over all I think SE made a wise decission. I'm sorry that Bsts had to take a hit for everyone else out there, but its the convience of one class verses one of the most complained issues in this game.

I'm sure Beastmaster's will find a way to adapt to the change, and move on. To those who will not, I'm sorry you feel you have to leave the game because of the update. My personal complaint is that Red Mage is pretty much been ignored the past 2 years because everyone conisters it "Perfect". At least you got SOMTHING. (The Reward Regen and EXP effects).

Edit: here is an idea, why dont oyu just NOT releace the pet? Let charm wear off, you get agro, you can Recharm the pet. Keep rewarding it as often as you can to keep its HP up, and you use it over and over again. Instead of recycling pets to keep runnign exp, rest it like most jobs that have to solo do. You'll suffer an EXP/hr cut but you wont loose your pet pulled from far away.

Its either that or you find diffrent pets to charm/areas to exp in.

[neighbortaru]

Re: That's all folks

All the wile the ability to MPK someone has been signifigantly deminished in the game, and the days where people fear BSTs in high level areas is over.

actually, this is still a concern. MPKs by BST are not that much harder after this update as some ppl have discovered.

At least you got SOMTHING. (The Reward Regen and EXP effects).

which are both crap. Reports are the regen effects do diddly squat. Further, jug pets are not viable alternatives to EM pets.

[aegina]

Re: That's all folks

so, soppose you do as recomended above? in the zones where you xp far away from the spawn point of your pet, just don't release it? it won't be any fun, but it's certainly an alternative to quitting...

and btw, sorry you didn't like the update, nt...

[neighbortaru]

Re: That's all folks

so, soppose you do as recomended above? in the zones where you xp far away from the spawn point of your pet, just don't release it? it won't be any fun, but it's certainly an alternative to quitting...

if it is not fun anymore, what is the point of playing?

[Omni]

Re: That's all folks

Over all I think SE made a wise decission. I'm sorry that Bsts had to take a hit for everyone else out there, but its the convience of one class verses one of the most complained issues in this game.

i do understand why it was done, and i know it had to be addressed, but the way it was done, imo, was poor.

Edit: here is an idea, why dont oyu just NOT releace the pet? Let charm wear off, you get agro, you can Recharm the pet. Keep rewarding it as often as you can to keep its HP up, and you use it over and over again. Instead of recycling pets to keep runnign exp, rest it like most jobs that have to solo do. You'll suffer an EXP/hr cut but you wont loose your pet pulled from far away.

Its either that or you find diffrent pets to charm/areas to exp in.

reward is 1:30 min timer. max reward is 350 hp. you cant use it over and over and over again. it doesnt work that way. if you need to rely on reward to regen your pet, thats 6+ minutes to regen it full. xp cut? thats close to non existent xp.

you dont see the point of all our previous post. sometimes you CANT find different pets to charm in areas that are appropriate for your level. bst is very sensitive to mob level. its not like pt play, where like if you have a nin, 3 rng, a brd and rdm, you can goto onzozo early and rack up 300xp chains like nothing on toramas. a bst cannot goto a zone early, it has to be appropriate for the bst level. if we goto a zone early, we die or get chased out of that zone our very first battle. which is further xp loss.

so, soppose you do as recomended above? in the zones where you xp far away from the spawn point of your pet, just don't release it? it won't be any fun, but it's certainly an alternative to quitting...

?!

the best idea i heard so far was to not have the monster disappear but to have it walk back to its normal habitat non-aggressive. once it reaches its normal radius, it reverts back to its normal mob behavior. during its walk back, the mob is targetable.

[WishMaster3K]

Re: That's all folks

At least stop bitching and moaning -.- I have come, albeit reluctantly, to respect the opinion of Hyrist, because he does offer a contemporary view on a lot of old stigmas. THFs cried wolf when there was Fuidama change. DRGs and MNKs cried wolf when tp nerf. RNGs cried wold when the suck RNGs were hitting Genbu for 80 with sidewinder. Ninjas cried when news of the Shadow Nerf came and PLDs laughed.

The reason we are stating these relations are not the similarities in circumstances, they are similarities in responses.

I stated above, when a certain play style is interrupted, the general masses complain. And Hyrist basically restated "The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few."

Adapt or go home. Melees are still arguing over whether to go with an ACC build and eat meat, sans pre-sushi days, or go with STR build and eat sushi. Melees are still discussing whether or not sushi is viable in an exp pt where a BRD is prevailent.

There are bigger problems that extend past the realm of your control, and my above examples cite that the changes in the game have simply forced the better players to adapt. You got a long fine without leave for 35 levels. Sure it was slow, but it worked. Leave simply will allow you more dynamics in terms of versatility. You may lose half your exp, but leave is simply another tool of the BST.

For Altana's sake, the game will go on.

[Omni]

Re: That's all folks

/sigh.
it isnt the same for the umf-teen time.

respones that are 'i cant fuidama from the front now' or 'i was out of range and only did 300 dmg sidewinder' is not the same as 'my 2k/hr just got chopped into 1k/hr'