That's all folks

[Omni]

Re: That's all folks

OK guys... heres a thought....

QUIT BITCHING!!!!

Look at it this way, SquareEnix designed all jobs to be party based and no for soloing. Ninja was supposed to be a Damage Dealer and now its a tank. Beastmaster was supposed to be a Damage Dealer like DRGs but now they all solo. Now with this update people are bitching and complaining about how hard its gonna be to solo... NO SHIT! They are making things more strict for a purpose!

tell me where SE has said ALL jobs are supposed to be party jobs? tell me. if you can, i will never say a word about this bst update. you cant can you?

S-E made it so that the Jugs dont cut EXP.... WHY???? So that you can get a normal EXP party and use your freakin jug as a normal pet like a DRG does!

i dont know what rock you were under but drg dont use their wyvren in pts b/c they never get pts. >.> so if we dont get pts doesnt that mean we are still stuck trying to solo? great logic.

[Spazz]

Re: That's all folks

i get invites all the time as my drg and bsts.... bsts are not "stuck" solo'ing. You make that sound like you have no choice. Put your seek up and wait. I actually tanked a group that had a bst in it tonight. She used a jug and it worked out pretty well.

As for the proof of the whole "all jobs were made to party" thing, yeah.... ask any developer that worked on FFXI. They have said it in many interviews that unlike other MMOs that allow the players to play alone, FFXI is more community based and all jobs have a purpose in a group (a.k.a. different benefits). If you have ever played any other MMO you know that FFXI practically forces you to group in order to lvl up. That is something no one can deny.

I have many BST friends, most of which are extremely pleased with the changes. Granted, some of them are 75... but either way they are happy with the changes. I did ask them what they thought about the whole "dissappear/reappear" of pets and they said "Yes, it makes things harder... but its nothing I cant overcome." I dont know about the rest of you but that doesnt seem like someone who is pissed off at S-E for "ruining BST".

I can appreciate the skill and time a BST has to solo up to high lvls - being that I am a BST and that I have been helped on MANY occassions by BSTs. But please... stop whining about how square-enix fucked the bst community and just learn to deal with it. As you can see, there are still NIN tanks and RNGs getting groups. Obviously a little change doesnt hurt. So please, be frustrated but dont bitch.

[eriiko]

Re: That's all folks

I will often sub BST to farm or solo xp.
Note, that I cannot use jugs. It takes me long enough to farm as it is ~.~

[Karinya]

Re: That's all folks

tell me where SE has said ALL jobs are supposed to be party jobs? tell me. if you can, i will never say a word about this bst update. you cant can you?

Can you tell me where SE has said that ANY job was "supposed" to be able to solo IT? Or that BST were "supposed" to use 4 pets in one fight? In the era of blink tanking what does it even matter what any job is "supposed" to do?

BST can still solo EM-T better than 14 other jobs - hey, that's all of them!

Did you know some jobs can get killed by EM? Or even by DC with a bit of bad luck? *Those* are jobs that have trouble soloing. Even if Charm didn't exist or had a 5 minute recast, BST would *still* be one of the best, probably *the* best, soloer in the game. Get some perspective.

For that matter, can you tell me where SE said BST were supposed to make faster exp solo than a party? Is there any other FF game where soloing is optimal for BST (or anyone)?

i dont know what rock you were under but drg dont use their wyvren in pts b/c they never get pts. >.> so if we dont get pts doesnt that mean we are still stuck trying to solo? great logic.

Drg never get pts? Maybe on your server... I see them get pts as well as any other DD (admittedly, there is a glut of DD and always has been, but DRG are no worse off than anyone else now that RNG aren't God.) Or maybe you're just exaggerating and making things up. Hmm.

BST never (used to?) get into normal parties... because whenever you see one with /inv on they have a comment saying (|Beastmaster|)(|Party|)(|Yes, please.|) Hmm, what does that tell you about the previous state of BST, that they refused to associate with any other job?


It seems a bit early to say that the sky is falling. Maybe you should try adapting your tactics, or looking at new leveling spots? If you recall, RNG right after the update were saying that they were nerfed to half their old DPS, and RNG now are doing almost as much as before update - *using different tactics*. Ditto DRG (and others) and the multihit WS TP nerf - those jobs are still doing damage just fine and the only people refusing to invite them are idiots. This thread may be a rich source of comedy in a couple months...

I would have liked to see a buff to Call Beast pets (Existing ones! Don't just introduce stronger new ones and doom the old ones to permanent gimpness!) and/or shorter timer, if they really are as weak as some people say, but SE tends to work in small steps, it's rare enough to see two buffs for the same job in the same update. Plus, the same people who claim they're hopelessly weak are exaggerating and lying about other things at the same time, so...

At any rate, I'm sure that they are looking carefully at BST to see how it is affected, and further changes may be under consideration. SE is not Blizzard, they don't make changes at random or because they think it's cool.

But hey, if you want to quit, quit. Nobody on this thread wants to stop you.

[Kittyneko]

Re: That's all folks

Okay that was a great reply. Please, no more big conversations about this Dragoon-thing though. Just warning.

[Balfree]

Re: That's all folks

Can you tell me where SE has said that ANY job was "supposed" to be able to solo IT? Or that BST were "supposed" to use 4 pets in one fight? In the era of blink tanking what does it even matter what any job is "supposed" to do?

BST can still solo EM-T better than 14 other jobs - hey, that's all of them!

Did you know some jobs can get killed by EM? Or even by DC with a bit of bad luck? *Those* are jobs that have trouble soloing. Even if Charm didn't exist or had a 5 minute recast, BST would *still* be one of the best, probably *the* best, soloer in the game. Get some perspective.

For that matter, can you tell me where SE said BST were supposed to make faster exp solo than a party? Is there any other FF game where soloing is optimal for BST (or anyone)?

Drg never get pts? Maybe on your server... I see them get pts as well as any other DD (admittedly, there is a glut of DD and always has been, but DRG are no worse off than anyone else now that RNG aren't God.) Or maybe you're just exaggerating and making things up. Hmm.

BST never (used to?) get into normal parties... because whenever you see one with /inv on they have a comment saying (|Beastmaster|)(|Party|)(|Yes, please.|) Hmm, what does that tell you about the previous state of BST, that they refused to associate with any other job?


It seems a bit early to say that the sky is falling. Maybe you should try adapting your tactics, or looking at new leveling spots? If you recall, RNG right after the update were saying that they were nerfed to half their old DPS, and RNG now are doing almost as much as before update - *using different tactics*. Ditto DRG (and others) and the multihit WS TP nerf - those jobs are still doing damage just fine and the only people refusing to invite them are idiots. This thread may be a rich source of comedy in a couple months...

I would have liked to see a buff to Call Beast pets (Existing ones! Don't just introduce stronger new ones and doom the old ones to permanent gimpness!) and/or shorter timer, if they really are as weak as some people say, but SE tends to work in small steps, it's rare enough to see two buffs for the same job in the same update. Plus, the same people who claim they're hopelessly weak are exaggerating and lying about other things at the same time, so...

At any rate, I'm sure that they are looking carefully at BST to see how it is affected, and further changes may be under consideration. SE is not Blizzard, they don't make changes at random or because they think it's cool.

But hey, if you want to quit, quit. Nobody on this thread wants to stop you.

Quoted for EMPHASIS x 2.

I want your ofspring.

[Rai]

Re: That's all folks

here is my letter to SE I sent into the Comments and Suggestion this morning:


Due to the changes implemented in the December twelfth patch to Final Fantasy XI I am given pause to re-evaluate whether the game is still enjoyable enough to justify it's monthly cost.

As a Beastmaster I am severely distressed by the Final Fantasy's Development Team's ineptitude in the manner in which they addressed the MPK issue. The lack of forethought as to the adverse effect their implementation would have on the Job of Beastmaster leaves me feeling I am making a mistake paying one cent more for this game.

The ability of a Beastmaster to recycle pets is fundamental to the job. Beastmasters already have lower experience per hour than any other job. Beastmasters play the job because of the ability to solo and advice their characters through the levels. I work a full-time job and have other responsibilities which limit the amount of time I can devote to the game. Playing as Beastmaster was a solution that allowed me to continue playing the game without wasting my precious time in game looking for group.

It is common sense to simply modify the behavior of a MOB so that it is non-aggro non-linking until it returns to it's spawn area. Even World of Warcraft was able to figure this out! Final Fantasy's Development Team instead de-spawns the MOB. Thus crippling the ability of Beastmasters to recycle pets in order to attain Experience Chains solo.

If my enjoyment of the game is not a consideration of the Development Team then I am left with no choice but to consider canceling my account. I will turn my attention to games such as World of Warcraft and Guild Wars and evaluate whether they are better able to provided the enjoyment which is now lacking in Final Fantasy XI.

[Omni]

Re: That's all folks

i get invites all the time as my drg and bsts.... bsts are not "stuck" solo'ing. You make that sound like you have no choice. Put your seek up and wait. I actually tanked a group that had a bst in it tonight. She used a jug and it worked out pretty well.

As for the proof of the whole "all jobs were made to party" thing, yeah.... ask any developer that worked on FFXI. They have said it in many interviews that unlike other MMOs that allow the players to play alone, FFXI is more community based and all jobs have a purpose in a group (a.k.a. different benefits). If you have ever played any other MMO you know that FFXI practically forces you to group in order to lvl up. That is something no one can deny.

I have many BST friends, most of which are extremely pleased with the changes. Granted, some of them are 75... but either way they are happy with the changes. I did ask them what they thought about the whole "dissappear/reappear" of pets and they said "Yes, it makes things harder... but its nothing I cant overcome." I dont know about the rest of you but that doesnt seem like someone who is pissed off at S-E for "ruining BST".

I can appreciate the skill and time a BST has to solo up to high lvls - being that I am a BST and that I have been helped on MANY occassions by BSTs. But please... stop whining about how square-enix fucked the bst community and just learn to deal with it. As you can see, there are still NIN tanks and RNGs getting groups. Obviously a little change doesnt hurt. So please, be frustrated but dont bitch.

ask any developer? right, i think ill whip out my cell phone and just call the 3 i have on my speed dial right now to confirm this.

i ALWAYS xp bst with a seek flag on. just for the chance that someone might want to duo with me. in my first 40 lvls, ive been asked to pt in a real pt twice. 1 was b/c no melee was seeking at the time and the other was they mistaken me for a war/nin (was bst/nin).

if you cant distinguish debate from bitching then maybe you should look at yourself and get over it.

[neighbortaru]

Re: That's all folks

i get invites all the time as my drg and bsts.... bsts are not "stuck" solo'ing.

no we are not. that's a mighty fine observation you made there.

You make that sound like you have no choice.

Actually, that is the choice. To be able to solo OR party as i want.

Put your seek up and wait. I actually tanked a group that had a bst in it tonight. She used a jug and it worked out pretty well.

Now you've taken away my choice...

No BST i have spoken to in-game are pleased with the changes. They begrudgingly accept it because they can no longer do anything about it. Even the ones who thought the MPK changes wouldn't affect Leave (and voiced optimism about the changes) are hating it. Sure if you are 75 this doesn't hurt as bad, but those of us who are still struggling to get there are.

I can appreciate the skill and time a BST has to solo up to high lvls - being that I am a BST and that I have been helped on MANY occassions by BSTs. But please... stop whining about how square-enix fucked the bst community and just learn to deal with it. As you can see, there are still NIN tanks and RNGs getting groups. Obviously a little change doesnt hurt. So please, be frustrated but dont bitch.

Let's have SE stop manaburn parties and see how you feel. Yet again you all fail to see the difference between this and the NIN and RNG changes. Stop comparing this to that, it is not the same. It does not even affect the same things.

[Balfree]

Re: That's all folks

SE: We are sorry to say that we don't give a rat's ass! ^^ Everytime we change a job, people rip their hair off and bash our actions like enraged apes, what the people don't realise is that we don't NERF jobs, you really think we give a damn about those sort of commentary? Faced with 2 options in Real life: Kill all or Kill some, which will you choose, say, in a conscient state of mind? We addressed the MPK issue (yea we admit we failed anyway cus people have been MPKed near Serket AFTER the update, sry! ^^), we didnt nerf BSTs, can you get it through your head? Leave is not so you can heal your pet and recycle it for later use, it is for disposing of a pet so you can go get another one, you really think we added Leave so you could recycle your pet and get 100% exp? if that was our intent we would've created something much more feasible, unfortunatly players allways want it handed to them in a silver platter, that's why Rangers were point blanking, that's why a DD/Enfeebler job like Ninja became a tank and that's why Manaburn parties are being formed for Exp parties and quick success on BCNMs, but when players are faced with our reality, they twitch and complain, but do we REALLY care? so complain all you want because we have enough Gilsellers to fund our cause and we aren't intimidated when you say you will quit for WoW, because we know you will be back sooner or later


- Now i just wish SE would make it like in EQ and make it so the mob starts walking back unless provoked, be it agressive or not, not because BSTs will be able to Leave their pets freely, because i couldnt give a damn, but because MPK is still possible, and it's being done more than ever just for spite.

[neighbortaru]

Re: That's all folks

that's so very true Balfree

[WishMaster3K]

Re: That's all folks

I don't know what to day, other than that when a certain "norm" is "Accepted" as the "norm", and the Creators decide to change it, naturally there will be some anger. Perhaps this rage is stemmed from the fact that since day one, people thought BSTs were solo jobs, and ppl played BST like they were solo, so now when BSTs are being forced to party, there is contempt.

Please, BSTs the world over, look at this from the outside in. When you make a change, it is unlikely everyone will be happy. Not like SE added new instances (oh wait, Valkurm is Dynamis now? >.>) and hobbled back off. Even if you want to complain, maybe it's time you stopped being antisocial and decided to raise BLM for exp, like everyone else?

Ha, ok, that last line was a joke, I couldn't resist >.> Well be happy. You can still solo better than RDMs NINs and THFs, the etheral Trifecta of Triumph, when, upon being banded together, become unstoppable forces of destruction. No one is taking that away from you -.-

If I could solo half as well as a BST, hell, if I could make 2k/hour soloing, I'd be friggin estatic. Just look at it this way, it's something to do to kill time while you wait for an invite. So what if you go lfg for 8 hours? that's 16k exp. All the other melee jobs either have to lfg in jeuno and do nothing, or lfg while farming and miss the invite.

Eventually, someone will invite you if they want you bad enough.

[aegina]

Re: That's all folks

sigh...

one step foreward, three steps back...

[Omni]

Re: That's all folks

Can you tell me where SE has said that ANY job was "supposed" to be able to solo IT? Or that BST were "supposed" to use 4 pets in one fight? In the era of blink tanking what does it even matter what any job is "supposed" to do?

BST can still solo EM-T better than 14 other jobs - hey, that's all of them!

Did you know some jobs can get killed by EM? Or even by DC with a bit of bad luck? *Those* are jobs that have trouble soloing. Even if Charm didn't exist or had a 5 minute recast, BST would *still* be one of the best, probably *the* best, soloer in the game. Get some perspective.

For that matter, can you tell me where SE said BST were supposed to make faster exp solo than a party? Is there any other FF game where soloing is optimal for BST (or anyone)?

Drg never get pts? Maybe on your server... I see them get pts as well as any other DD (admittedly, there is a glut of DD and always has been, but DRG are no worse off than anyone else now that RNG aren't God.) Or maybe you're just exaggerating and making things up. Hmm.

BST never (used to?) get into normal parties... because whenever you see one with /inv on they have a comment saying (|Beastmaster|)(|Party|)(|Yes, please.|) Hmm, what does that tell you about the previous state of BST, that they refused to associate with any other job?


It seems a bit early to say that the sky is falling. Maybe you should try adapting your tactics, or looking at new leveling spots? If you recall, RNG right after the update were saying that they were nerfed to half their old DPS, and RNG now are doing almost as much as before update - *using different tactics*. Ditto DRG (and others) and the multihit WS TP nerf - those jobs are still doing damage just fine and the only people refusing to invite them are idiots. This thread may be a rich source of comedy in a couple months...

I would have liked to see a buff to Call Beast pets (Existing ones! Don't just introduce stronger new ones and doom the old ones to permanent gimpness!) and/or shorter timer, if they really are as weak as some people say, but SE tends to work in small steps, it's rare enough to see two buffs for the same job in the same update. Plus, the same people who claim they're hopelessly weak are exaggerating and lying about other things at the same time, so...

At any rate, I'm sure that they are looking carefully at BST to see how it is affected, and further changes may be under consideration. SE is not Blizzard, they don't make changes at random or because they think it's cool.

But hey, if you want to quit, quit. Nobody on this thread wants to stop you.

since when does bst xp faster than a pt? where are you getting your info? a bst does not xp faster than a normal pt. granted if u have a shitty pt, it might be faster but your garden variety pt xps much faster than your typical bst.

i dont know why people keep equating this change to the nin or rng changes. the nin and rng changes does not affect you from getting your xp. they arent even the same thing. the tp nerf, the dmg adjustment and the utusesemi change do not change the fact that you still get your xp. this update does. for the bst at 75 already, this has little or no affect on you, but for the many of us that are trying to get there, it doesnt look good.

the whole drg comment was sarcasm. i'm sorry you failed to see that. ive always been a supporter of the drg and changes for them. but you cannot deny drg have a harder time at getting a pt than other melee. given this, bst would be lower on the list than a drg now.

and as far as bst is meant to be in a pt, what happened to my choice? previous state of bst? do you know what you are saying? since when did bst b/c this undercover pt loving job? neighbortaru put it well. you just took away our choice. i took up bst for 1 reason alone. the choice to venture out into a quiet corner of vanadiel and slowly but happily grind out my xp. why did i choose this? i chose this b/c i work full time. 9-6, after i come home, i get gf aggro or i go out to dinner. after that? that leaves me with a couple hours to logon to a game i enjoy very much. if i can, ill venture out and xp my bst at my own pace. i dont need to wait for a rdm to show up or a tank to start seeking. i dont need to worry about sky being too full or poor melee. if you are telling me its PT or BUST then you just took my game away from me. i've done my share of grinding too. i know what it tanks to grind, i just cant now.

as far as quitting, i love this game that much that i cant. so quit putting words in my mouth and speak with some dignity before you begin speaking for me.

[Balfree]

Re: That's all folks

@ Jei: You're not being sarcastic?

Because i fail to see the big deal for the BSTs... i think you guys will just need to rethink your strategies and think about other places to exp, have you actually gone up to your favorite zone to exp and did you really find it troublesome? is it really this bad...? i mean if people were MPKed in the serket area, ... that's a pretty big area! do all mobs have the same radius or does it vary? can you not alter your strategies.. did you REALLY think through?

Step 1: Charm Pet.
Step 2: Tell it to Pull mob.
Step 3: Use Heel.
Step 4: Go back to your pet's "habitat".
Step 5: Fight enemy.
Step 6: Release your pet for exp or for it to recover.
Step 7: Use jug to finish off your enemy.
Step 8: While your pet-in-a-can is killing your enemy, go and try to find a next enemy for the chain.
Step 9: Hopefully your Jug pet survived and you can use him to pull, pull that next mob with it back to your first released pet.
Step 10: Let it die and recharm your first pet to fight the new enemy, you may need to use Dia or throw something at it... if you're good you can quickly re-charm your first pet and order him to attack, run off and cure yourself, go back and monitor your pet, release him and repeat the whole process until you feel like you need a rest.

What's the recast on Call pet again? THAT might pose a problem, but you could pull the enemies and call the pet's "habitat" radius your "Camp", remember that since the canned pets now give you 100% exp, you might use them for finishing your enemy so you can go find a new mob to keep up the chain, so maybe your released pet needs a big rest because it took alot of hits, with the regen effects on pet food, this even helps you more because your released pet will probably be ready for battle faster.

Maybe my plan isnt thought through and is undoubtely broken since i am not a full time bst, but honestly... is there really no hope?

Are you saying it's not the same with RNG and NIN because it really isnt the same, or are you saying that because you arent a RNG or a NIN and as such you only admit it when youre really the one being targeted?