An Elvaan Beast Tamer?

[Kamehameha_King]

Can this combination work? I am starting out as an Elvaan when my game finally works, and I was wondering if I should make another character to be a Beastmaster. I would obviously prefer that I not have to make another character just to make a Beastmaster, but I'll do it if necessary. I may not have played yet, but I've been doing 'research' on the game lately, figuring out what I want to be and how to accomplish it etc. I would think that Elvaans might have some trouble early in the game, but turn out alright end-game. Any suggestions as to what I should do?

Thanks in advance,
Kamehameha_King

[Mikeb]

Elvaan makes a very good BST.

They are tied for having the most CHR (with Humes and Tarus), and they have good VIT and the best STR (attack).

[Kamehameha_King]

Goodie goodie gumdrops! Now, to fix my computer! By the way, for an Elvaan Beast Tamer, should I have a Warrior Subjob, because the common mage Subjobs might not work as well with an Elvaan. Also, what about a Ninja Subjob? Hehe I have a lot of questions.

Thanks in advance,
Kamehameha_King

[tracert]

elvann bst is probably the best combination, buy an astral ring or 2 and youll have more HP and MP than a taru with better stats... sigh saying that makes me sad...

[Altruist]

Even if you can't afford astrals, you can just get by with your normal mp or use a pie.

[Lurch]

Yeah, you'll be fine with /whm, even as elvaan. I remember duoing with my elvaan bst buddy in korro.. with both of us in our respective RSE's, I had more hp than him, and he had more mp than I did. For the times that you're feeling like you don't have enough mp, pie works just fine.

[Kamehameha_King]

Ok. Thanks all you guys you've been a big help. I don't have any advanced jobs yet obviously, so what should I start as to go into Beastmaster? OR, alternatively, I could go with my original plan and go for a Dragoon before Beastmaster, so here's my question: Which advanced job should I try to raise first, Dragoon, or Beastmaster??

Thanks in advance,
Kamehameha_King

[tracert]

Originally posted by Kamehameha_King
Ok. Thanks all you guys you've been a big help. I don't have any advanced jobs yet obviously, so what should I start as to go into Beastmaster? OR, alternatively, I could go with my original plan and go for a Dragoon before Beastmaster, so here's my question: Which advanced job should I try to raise first, Dragoon, or Beastmaster??

Thanks in advance,
Kamehameha_King

well to be a decent DRG you will need tons of gil.. and BST get tons of gil from just leveling so... there you go

[Chroney]

Elvaan BST = Impossible to gauge

[Macht]

Elvaan BST/WHM has to be one of the strong combination that race can do. Elvaan has the highest in STR and MND, so with BST/WHM they have good attacks and good healing potential which helps to conserve their limited MP even more. Not only that but like already stated they are among the 3 highest in CHR so their ability to charm monsters is very good.

[tdh]

I would say go WHM to Lv.30, solo the BST quest, and then level BST.

People are right when they say BSTs make a ton of gil. From there you can level any other job you want. Only issue is you're going to have some rough times at a lower level as an Elvaan WHM. Especially with out a subjob. Hell, with a subjob it's not easy doing Cure Monkey duties in Valkrum Dunes. But if you find a good party at Lv.15 don't let that sucka go until you're ready for Qufim. At that point you'll be Lv.30 in a few days.

Save your gil, buy lots of Pies and Yagudo Drinks.

[Tomatoes]

Elvaan BST is great. Taru BST is the worst imo, simply because of HP. Also, I believe it is easier/cheaper to boost MP than HP.

That said, I still love my Taru BST and can't wait to finish off my AF.

{Screenshot} XD

[Gman]

Originally posted by Tomatoes
Elvaan BST is great. Taru BST is the worst imo, simply because of HP. Also, I believe it is easier/cheaper to boost MP than HP.

That said, I still love my Taru BST and can't wait to finish off my AF.

{Screenshot} XD

Cheaper to boost MP than HP? I'd say about the same after level 40. Pre-40, you need hairpins (which take away def and HP) or Astrals, which are running like 600k each now. Compare a physical earring (25mp-25hp 5k) to an astral ring (25hp-25mp 600k)... um...

I'm not gonna argue against Elvaan being the best. It certainly makes a strong case for it, but to say taru is the worst... uh... I just have to wonder what you base that on?

Having lowest HP means...what? If HP actually matter then you've done something terribly wrong. As a level 61 Taru BST in full AF, I have about 940 HP. That is MORE than enough for anything I need, and it will only continue to go up as I level. If I get into a situation where 940 HP isnt enough, then trust me, the Elvaan with 1100 HP would probably die as well.

As far as STR goes, it does not matter in the least. All that matters is that you hit the mob and get TP for a WS to finish it. After level 55 Rampage is your bread and butter, and its damage is accuracy based, not strength. Taru can hit the target better than Elvaan, assuming the same gear is being worn.

Lastly, the MP pool of a Taru allows us to never have to wear MP gear, meaning we can allocate those slots to better items like STR, ACC, HP, DEX, CHR, or whatever. More MP means less downtime. Heck, an Elvaan at my level without MP gear would barely have enough MP to cast Protect 2, blink, stoneskin.

If you had to pick "worst" races for BST, you would have to go with the lowest CHR races which are Galka and Mithra. To fairly pick the best BST you have to ignore subjob, which hurts Taru because MP is not a factor.

This would be my order with no subjob available.

Elvaan
Hume
Taru
Galka
Mithra

If you sub WHM on your BST (which most do) it changes to this:

Taru
Elvaan
Hume
Mithra
Galka

[Tomatoes]

Originally posted by Gman
[B]Cheaper to boost MP than HP? I'd say about the same after level 40. Pre-40, you need hairpins (which take away def and HP) or Astrals, which are running like 600k each now. Compare a physical earring (25mp-25hp 5k) to an astral ring (25hp-25mp 600k)... um...

Yes, but MP is far more valuable than HP at those levels. Not even Taru will will wear Physical Earring. Looking at ratios instead of just flat out numbers around LV40:

(estimates w/o Astrals)
Taru - 600HP / 100MP
Elv - 800HP / 75MP

(estimates w/ Astrals)
Taru - 550HP / 150MP ... HP-8.25% vs. MP+50%
Elv - 750HP / 125MP ... HP-6.25% vs. MP+66%

By pure numbers, I think I would take the 25MP hit to have 750HP. But, what equipment is out there that would boost my HP by 50% or even just 150HP? None.

You are only looking at 2 items in the example you provided. There are alternatives for HP boost that are more expensive than Astrals, just as there are MP boost items that are much cheaper than Astrals. (i.e. Bloodbead and Pigeon earrings 1mil+, Electrum rings)

Also, there is no item equivalent I can think of for MP recharge that matches the usefulness of Dark/Pluto staff.

By numbers, yes, the HP Boost vs MP Boost items seem not so different in overall effect, though I still maintain that the Astrals are far easier on the wallet than those HP earrings I mentioned. But looking at percentages, we can see that boosting MP has a far greater impact and is much easier to achieve than an HP boost of similar magnitude.

I'm not gonna argue against Elvaan being the best. It certainly makes a strong case for it, but to say taru is the worst... uh... I just have to wonder what you base that on?

Having lowest HP means...what? If HP actually matter then you've done something terribly wrong. As a level 61 Taru BST in full AF, I have about 940 HP. That is MORE than enough for anything I need, and it will only continue to go up as I level. If I get into a situation where 940 HP isnt enough, then trust me, the Elvaan with 1100 HP would probably die as well.

Yes, in those mass mischarm + link situations, we all die. Race will not matter in those instances. However, in the mid-level crisis situations, more HP = greater survivability. For example, double mischarm + Tame missed + double crit. There are also other factors like spell interrupt, limited running terrain, or unable to run because of links in the path. There are things you can prevent of course. The spell interrupt for instance. Don't time your cast incorrectly with the mob's attack timing. However, there are still time where you may have lived had you had more HP.

Think of how many close calls you've had going from 1-60. Our job tends to run the gamut of success and failure hundreds, even thousands of times through. So even the ultra-careful BSTs will inevitably encounter the mid-level crisis situations that I tried to describe, where HP makes all the difference.

Another thing is chaining. Let's say I'm at low MP and my HP is around 500/700. I am forced to make a decision between charming another mob to continue chain and risking being in a bad situation if I mischarm. What do I do? Some days I play it safe (pun intended w/ Darksday and all). Some days I play riskier, because mistakes can be fun. XD

Now for the other side of the story. Let's say the Elvaan is at 800/1000 and low MP. It's a no-brainer for the Elvaan, because he can survive 2-3 mischarms in a row with that HP pool, so he/she will opt to continue the chain and rest after the mob is engaged. Throw in Dark Staff and putting off healing for the Elvaan is almost a non-issue.

As far as STR goes, it does not matter in the least. All that matters is that you hit the mob and get TP for a WS to finish it. After level 55 Rampage is your bread and butter, and its damage is accuracy based, not strength. Taru can hit the target better than Elvaan, assuming the same gear is being worn.

I agree to an extent here. However, especially in earlier levels, many BST are unable to build enough TP to spend at the end of the battle due to various factors and must be content with normal attacks to finish off the mob. This is another situation where higher HP is of great benefit.

Lastly, the MP pool of a Taru allows us to never have to wear MP gear, meaning we can allocate those slots to better items like STR, ACC, HP, DEX, CHR, or whatever. More MP means less downtime.

Well, I believe I provided an example above where more HP means less downtime. BST also time their downtime to coincide with a mob already being engaged, so this is not such a great factor imo, especially after you get Dark Staff.

To be honest, even as Taru, I swap in a hairpin when I'm /healing so that I can have a semi-free Blink or Pro2 or whatever when I get up.

If you had to pick "worst" races for BST, you would have to go with the lowest CHR races which are Galka and Mithra. To fairly pick the best BST you have to ignore subjob, which hurts Taru because MP is not a factor.

I disagree here. Galka at my level has like 300 more HP than me. And as with other jobs Gear > Racial Difference. And with CHR as fickle as it is, I don't think it makes much difference. The Galka can easily supplement his CHR and MP. Even with infinite Gil, there is no way I can make up the HP advantage he has over me. And to pick the best BST, you can't ignore subjob. You have to consider all factors.

For me, Beastmaster is not so much about that singular moment of rolling the CHR dice, but about persistence over long periods of time. There will be many upswings and downswings for Charm success that are seemingly out of our complete control. But our persistence is our own and will always ride out the swings and prevail. That is one reason why I put so much stock into the importance of HP.

Though at times I get reckless and do things "terribly wrong," I'm not a newbie BST. I consider myself a good player and I know quite a few tricks of the trade that I try to pass on when I can. So what I say about Taru BST is not meant as an insult to my fellow Taru BSTs. I'm just pointing out my observations and opinion that HP pool can be a considerable difference maker.

[Gman]

estimates w/o Astrals)
Taru - 600HP / 100MP
Elv - 800HP / 75MP

Taru bst/whm lvl 40 no gear 545 hp, 109 mp
Elvaan bst/whm lvl 40 no gear 717 hp, 67 mp

Yes, with equipment mods, Elvaan is statistically better for HP/MP numbers. Their HP pool is large enough that they can convert HP to MP and still come out ahead of the Taru, but it ~is~ expensive up until electrums at 40 are available. I had a Pigeon earring. It cost me 120k and I sold it for 200k since price went up. Not sure where you get the 1 mil pricetag. (maybe for pigeon +1 or the bloodbead?)

HP and MP are both important for a /whm bst. Why bother subbing whm if you dont have enough MP to make it effective? Galka may have 300-400 more MP than me, but I have 80 more MP. Blink is 20 mp. I can cast 4 blinks extra then the galka. Each blink absorbs 2 hits. 8 hits from a tough-VT mob at level 61 = 560 dmg (assuming 70 dmg per hit). There goes the Galkas HP advantage. He's sitting on an empty MP pool and cant cast it, while I can. Through smart use of MP, you give yourself more survivability. Barwatera against crabs cuts down damage from bubble shower, stoneskin gives you one free hit.

I fully realize that the Galka can make up some MP through gear and still come out ahead with HP. Difference is that I'm using those gear slots for other things to make me even better. They cant, since they are stuck with MP gear there.

Though at times I get reckless and do things "terribly wrong," I'm not a newbie BST. I consider myself a good player and I know quite a few tricks of the trade that I try to pass on when I can. So what I say about Taru BST is not meant as an insult to my fellow Taru BSTs. I'm just pointing out my observations and opinion that HP pool can be a considerable difference maker.

HP is nice, I wont argue. I wish tarus had more HP then they do, but I havent died in a long time. My last 2 deaths could not have been prevented by HP. Once was because I got a spider link and my autotarget went to a spider behind me and it wouldnt let me Rampage to finish off the almost dead spider I was fighting. (more the game mechanics fault than mine, but i've since turned off autotarget) The other was when we were fighting aquarius, and I released my pet when it had hate, making Aqua come to me and nail me for 400 dmg (I was low on HP from a tough deathcap becoming uncharmed and linking with 2 others to beat on me)

Other than those 2 times, havent died in solo or duo exp'ng for a while. Closest was a sickle slash for 600 dmg with blink down, right after the spider had double hit me, one being a critical. Took me from 939 HP to about 100. I already had a pet on it, just hadnt grabbed hate yet.

I guess my main point is, I've adapted to having lower HP than the other races. I'm sure they've adapted to having lower MP than me. I cant picture going to a BST race with < 100 mp now. If you do things right, HP should never be a concern. Then again, neither should MP because theres usually time to rest while your pet is fighting. On a good night, my HP wont go below yellow once. Theres no reason for it to.