jugs

[poppipo]

Im having a really hard time understanding jugs...like how powerful are they to other pets? how much money do jugs cost? do u lose exp if u use them? if i was bst/nin with all +str equipment and never charmed anything, and just used jugs, would they be just as powerful without any +charisma? Because if i was bst/nin with 2 axes(bsts have a A in axes) with all +str and just used broth pets i would basically be dragoon with a stronger pet, could wear better equipment, and the dual weilding axes would deal as much, or better dmg than a DRG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DRGS SUCK

[hoboman]

my friend! you are correct... DRG are useless

[Altruist]

. . .
First of all DRG do not 'suck' they are a viable damage dealler, albeit they are lacking in some areas, and against particular monsters. They do awesome damage against birds and orcs, not so good against most other things.

Secondly, as a bst you have less chance of getting a PT than a drg. You will loose exp if you have a jug pet out, and you won't get jug pets til 23. Jug pets are nice, I use them when some drk farms up all my pets . . . You do have a reuse timer, iirc it's like 3min between using jug pets.

Basic pets do about the same damage as a DC mob, HQ do better. Basic pets are generally cheap, a few k for a stack, or a couple hundred for rabbit pets.

If you don't go for CHR, you will not be able to solo at all. This is not a warning this is the truth. Although I'm only level 27, I do know that when I don't have my monster signa I don't charm as much. Jug pets die too quickly and are absolutely slaughtered on anything above a DC, unless of course you use HQ pets, I think CC is 10k-12k a stack on my server.

If you want to be some "uber 1337 mad skillz I ownz u with 2 axe and pet" guy, your are going to have a hard time getting a PT. When you do you will get an exp loss since your using jug pets. At least until 35, but with a 3min timer you will have issues. You can switch out equipment though if you do try to charm something, most beasts have 2 sets, one for melee and one for charming. BTW, you actually want +dex not +str. Your not a taru, so you don't need to worry about +str. Be for-warned that every DD will hit more than you w/o a pet given similar equipment.

[WickedSteel]

Originally posted by Altruist

Secondly, as a bst you have less chance of getting a PT than a drg. You will loose exp if you have a jug pet out, and you won't get jug pets til 23. Jug pets are nice, I use them when some drk farms up all my pets . . . You do have a reuse timer, iirc it's like 3min between using jug pets.

Basic pets do about the same damage as a DC mob, HQ do better. Basic pets are generally cheap, a few k for a stack, or a couple hundred for rabbit pets.

If you don't go for CHR, you will not be able to solo at all. This is not a warning this is the truth. Although I'm only level 27, I do know that when I don't have my monster signa I don't charm as much. Jug pets die too quickly and are absolutely slaughtered on anything above a DC, unless of course you use HQ pets, I think CC is 10k-12k a stack on my server.

If you want to be some "uber 1337 mad skillz I ownz u with 2 axe and pet" guy, your are going to have a hard time getting a PT. When you do you will get an exp loss since your using jug pets. At least until 35, but with a 3min timer you will have issues. You can switch out equipment though if you do try to charm something, most beasts have 2 sets, one for melee and one for charming. BTW, you actually want +dex not +str. Your not a taru, so you don't need to worry about +str. Be for-warned that every DD will hit more than you w/o a pet given similar equipment.

hey, I resent that "uber 1337" talk :mad:

I think of jug pets of more like a life savor when you dont have anything to back you up at a bad time. Sure they are good 'sometimes', but imho its best to deffinitely have two sets of gear for charming/fighting.

As far as BST/NIN is concerned, its hard, but more expensive than the /whm over time. As an Elvaan, my MP blows, so I solo with /NIN and do just fine. Just have to time things right, if you don't then it could mean your ass. Whatever though, I like the challenge.

As far as +str and +chr gear, like i said you'll want both for sure. For fighting I have Spike Necklace, 2x Beetle Earings +1, and 2x Balance Rings. On hot key I have 2x Hope Rings, Noble's Ribbon and keep the earrings in while switching out the necklaces for either Bird Wistle "anytime" or Beast Wistle "solo" for the VIT boost.

/NIN is decent in the dual axe department, but its not great. The delay is generally 2 seconds less than Scythe, but will still do less damamge over time since you dont have the same attack bonuses as other melee classes do. However, pair this with Utsusemi, and timeing and you wont get hit once before you push down your mob. The only thing that sucks is that utsusemi doesn't each certain special attacks like Bomb Toss and Cursed Sphere.

In reply to your comment about DRGs, they are good, and when played right are "ok" damage dealers, but post 50 they kinda lose alot, we however maintain our damamge output as long as we have a pet with us.

As for what Altruist said about losing xp, do not let that discourage you. For once you hit 35, you can release you pet, tame it and you will be fine with your xp. Up until then it will be a tad hard to find parties, and you WILL have to use jugs if you party in places like INNER Quicksand Caves where charms are few and far between.

All-in-all, you can party, but if you're going to beast, you will need to solo more often than not. Alot of people don't like us. I understand why. So we get booted, hated and flamed most the time lol.

Keep both whm and nin subbed just if you want. Might be wise though. Good luck with mastering beasts!

/farewell

[sudo]

ok enough of the drg bashing.

Drg don't suck at all actually.

Compared to a bst, they have quite a few advantages and more simular than you might think

IF you learn how to use your wyrven well, it's actually better than a dumb pet sometimes. But only if you play the job smartly instead of only looking at the damage dealing from that flying little blue guy.

Drg/whm can solo. All in all, I'd say 3rd best in the game but usable only in certain areas. If you think I'm pulling this out of my ass, then go talk to some drg's that actually have a mage sub lv'ed up.

Their claim to fame is that when they get low in hp's, they can cast dia or something and their pet wyrven will use healing breath for a cure 3. Hey, that's like a 7 mp cure for 180. When the wyrven gets low, use spirit link and then cast dia and repeat.

I have seen lv 50 drg's solo EM's. They can do it just fine. On top of that, they can actually get pt invites. That's a bit load off of their shoulders. I as bst can um.. get pt invites.... ok I can't ever get one. No one even tries really. When in a group, I don't have jump to offer nor can I be a trick partner for thf since I don't have super jump. They get TP quite a bit faster than bst since jumping gives TP as well as all their accuracy up traits and polearm.

And FYI, at lv 58, I pt with a bst/nin and another bst/whm. The bst/nin is galka and I'm taru using a scythe. The other guy has wrath tabar and darksteel axe. I can pull hate from him even as bst/whm and we all just do the same things in a pt.

Drg playing style is more complicated than just a melee with a pet role. Plz stop all the drg bashing. Espically on the bst forum. They have a much more fun time in pt than we do I think. I found out the other day while doing AF quests with LS that when I'm in a pt. All I can do really is automelee. I want jumping at least!

[WickedSteel]

Originally posted by sudo
ok enough of the drg bashing.

Drg don't suck at all actually.

Compared to a bst, they have quite a few advantages and more simular than you might think

IF you learn how to use your wyrven well, it's actually better than a dumb pet sometimes. But only if you play the job smartly instead of only looking at the damage dealing from that flying little blue guy.

Drg/whm can solo. All in all, I'd say 3rd best in the game but usable only in certain areas. If you think I'm pulling this out of my ass, then go talk to some drg's that actually have a mage sub lv'ed up.

Their claim to fame is that when they get low in hp's, they can cast dia or something and their pet wyrven will use healing breath for a cure 3. Hey, that's like a 7 mp cure for 180. When the wyrven gets low, use spirit link and then cast dia and repeat.

I have seen lv 50 drg's solo EM's. They can do it just fine. On top of that, they can actually get pt invites. That's a bit load off of their shoulders. I as bst can um.. get pt invites.... ok I can't ever get one. No one even tries really. When in a group, I don't have jump to offer nor can I be a trick partner for thf since I don't have super jump. They get TP quite a bit faster than bst since jumping gives TP as well as all their accuracy up traits and polearm.

And FYI, at lv 58, I pt with a bst/nin and another bst/whm. The bst/nin is galka and I'm taru using a scythe. The other guy has wrath tabar and darksteel axe. I can pull hate from him even as bst/whm and we all just do the same things in a pt.

Drg playing style is more complicated than just a melee with a pet role. Plz stop all the drg bashing. Espically on the bst forum. They have a much more fun time in pt than we do I think. I found out the other day while doing AF quests with LS that when I'm in a pt. All I can do really is automelee. I want jumping at least!

I guess thats good your pulling hate from the axe weilding galka. I never said dual axe is "uber" or anything, but i didnt say it was decent for a little quick death damage if the mob is only 2 axe hits from death (solo). As for Scythe, yeah i also said that it was stronger, still 2 seconds slower though. Those 2 seconds dont make a huge difference, and Scythe IS still better, was just pointing it out to him.

I was merely stating what a few dragoons have told me about their experience as dragoons. They do good damamge compared to us, especially at lower levels with jumps and their weapon. At 51 i noticed that I was doing double dragoon dmg without "powering up" my dark knight abilities. Maybe thats what threw me off. Again though, they can play it if they want, they arent gimped by any means. Yes, they do get parties easier than us, but they sure do still have a hard time.

Good for them that they can solo too. /clap.

Alright I'm done. >_>

[poppipo]

I just dont get how a dragoon can be better than a bst in a party Becus....

-dragoons cant wear alot of equipment that gives alot of good melee bonuses

-iv heard alot of drgs say that their pet dies alot, with a bst yu can just keep callin another one with a jug or charm another one

-2 really good axes that have +str +att etc, will outdamage a polearm.

-bsts could charm a pet if they see one and do WAY more dmg than a dragoon's pet, and if the bst uses familiar and uses pet food, they will have an even match pet with them for 30 mins!

-the bst could charm a pet or use familiar when the party is in trouble and just let it die(of course the bst will have a huge exp penalty but the party will love u)

-the only thing that drg has in favor of bst is that their ws's are probably alot stronger, and can use super jump to shed hate

[poppipo]

I just dont get how a dragoon can be better than a bst in a party Becus....

-dragoons cant wear alot of equipment that gives alot of good melee bonuses

-iv heard alot of drgs say that their pet dies alot, with a bst yu can just keep callin another one with a jug or charm another one

-2 really good axes that have +str +att etc, will outdamage a polearm.

-bsts could charm a pet if they see one and do WAY more dmg than a dragoon's pet, and if the bst uses familiar and uses pet food, they will have an even match pet with them for 30 mins!

-the bst could charm a pet or use familiar when the party is in trouble and just let it die(of course the bst will have a huge exp penalty but the party will love u)

-the only thing that drg has in favor of bst is that their ws's are probably alot stronger, and can use super jump to shed hate

[jaby]

Simply because everyone thinks BST in PT = exp loss.
Until everyone smartens up, we'll never get picked over DRGs.

[Starcrossed]

WS

Actually, we do get a lot of great WS. No other job offers high skill in both axe and scythe as needed, aside from warrior (and they won't have scythe, like ever).

In the scythe department, I just reached 55 and unwrapped my precious DemonSlicer scythe. Damn thing hits 200 damage criticals, always makes me get aggro, but I like the way it looks on top of the gross damage. But we were talking about WS...

In an exp party, scythe is desirable once you get access to Vorpal Scythe so you can chain with thieves to make their big distortion. Also, in terms of big hits, most bst prefer bst/war with scythe if they pt anyways.

Axes... we get all the goodies here. Most of the Axe WS are fairly basic 1 hit, damage varies with TP kind of things. The damage can get fairly good once you learn Spinning Axe at level 49, and its a Fire WS which renkeis well with many others. Axes also offer several WS in the Thunder group which can make Fusion... also a good renkei. The lower level ones aren't amazing, but they aren't too bad. Once we get Rampage and Calamity we offer more to a pt for their skillchains, but our WS will always be weaker than a war or drk who are using their attack up skills.

Against dragoons, I'd say we are vastly more useful to a pt. We can wield two weapon types equally well and easily make any of the standard level 2 renkei effects between our two weapons, including the distortion renkei closed by thieves which is very powerful and popular. We make better trick partners than drg in almost every way. We wear heavy armor, we have better hp, and we don't generate much hate ourselves because our pet accumulates their own hate. We can save the entire pt with a quick charm to control a link or stop a fight that is going out of control. Drg gets superjump in their favour, however, they need it because they are wearing paper armor.

Just wanted to say, Jug Pets are not good in exp parties. You'd want to release them so you'd get full exp... and you'd go through a stack of jugs every hour. Much better if you can pt in a zone where there are a mix of mobs so the bst can always charm something... preferably non-aggro.

So umm yeah, to join in the bashing... down with drgs! We should be in the parties, not them!

Streak
55 bst
60 thf

[myrriden]

DRGs suck Probably first most useless job, second going to Samurai but only because they have pretty weapon skills. (What else do they do? Other than miss a lot.) But to the original poster: jug pets suck, I only use them for farming. Even the HQ ones are kind of lacking unless what you're fighting is like 8 levels below you. Because of this if you even try to fight an EM you will get hit tons. And we all know how DRG aren't tanks (they love to remind us when we ask them to temp tank for whatever reason), same goes with BST- you aren't a tank. You can wear heavy armor, sure but you can't take hits.

[Altruist]

DRG do pretty good damage, they will always do more damage than a bst w/o pet. DRG's can do pretty well compared to drks, but because of some issues with lack of good equipment they really are unable to keep up at later levels.

Don't bash sams, seriously they own at level 71 onward if you have 2 blms in PT's. Tachi kasha is weak, very weak, but thunder IV is 1800dmg burst unresisted, so with a blm blm pld rdm sam mnk pt your doing really well.

BST to do good damage in a PT you really need to have release, and local EM, pref non-aggro pets. A list would be nice if someone came up with one, but I think the first time you can do this ~lvl 40 in the nest. Altepa might work too for ~30 lvl, but you won't have release then so your pet will go aggro.

Burning through jugs isn't a great idea. I joined a PT for level 27-28, I just used jugs and was still getting 140-170 exp through each kill. I did about the same damage as a war, and yes I did have the best equip I could get besides archer rings and a peacock charm.