BST as a sub?

[Lots Of Nine]

Lately I've been seeing a lot of melee classes running around with /bst subs. At first I figured, well maybe they are just messing around while they're farming (plus you get wide scan). But now I'm seeing them in exp parties and the like. I had once heard that a bst sub doesn't have any nerfs to it's charm because it's based solely on CHR. If this were true then why couldn't you just solo as whm/bst or anything/bst. I've heard conflicting stories of the effectiveness of charm as a sub but I figured I'd ask those that would know the most, beast masters. So is /bst a viable sub? farming only? secret soloing technique no one wants me to know? =D (also I might assume that the effectiveness of it as a sub may rely on "release" as it's very important to bst. what lvl would you get this if it were subbed? i don't know what lvl bst get it) lol, kinda long...

[sudo]

The only conceivable reason you would sub bst is if you were wearing that latent earring that gave +3 accuracy if you sub bst.

You'd need to be 70/35 on a job/bst to get release.

[Frumply]

/bst IS a viable soloing sub, but only for the classes that have their own way of healing or avoiding hits.

Another thing, when BST is used as a sub the chances of success of charming a mob is processed by the following formulae:

(current main lvl + max bst lvl(crop to main lvl if bst lvl > main lvl)) / 2

i.e., if you were playing a 34rdm and had a 20bst, while you'd be a 34/17 rdm/bst, your charm ability will be equivalent to that of (34+20)/2 = lv27. Said another way, the first criteria to have /bst work is to raise it higher than the job you wish to use it with first.

[mrm83]

charming with bst sub fails alot
i even fail to charm too weak stuff =p

[Starcrossed]

Thief/Bst

My first job was thief levelled to 51, and when I want to go farming or treasure hunting, that's the job I bring. I tried using thief/bst while farming, collecting keys and the like. It worked surprisingly well, I could charm the highest level mobs in the area and mow them all the weaker mobs without barely doing anything. I did discover that treasure hunter and even gilfinder do not work on kills that your pet makes. However, level 51/25 thief/beastmaster could not charm easy prey even after 12+ tries. I can charm things only much lower. They can still help, but not for any serious endeavors that are in higher level zones.

Later I got my whm sub up, and I'm sorry to say /whm is hands down the best sub for soloing no matter what your main job is. Even a small thing like the autoregen is HUGE when you get it as a subjob to your melee main job. Add on the regen spell, divine seal and cure III, sneak/invis/deodorize for exploring, dia for pulling and its pretty clear anyone level 50+ soloing should probably be using a /whm.

I did enjoy using /bst for a week or so, but its not fantastic.

Streak
(Beastmaster is now level 37)

[Lurch]

I once saw a thf that was at least lvl 65 in Crawler's Nest with a Crawler Hunter as a pet, farming Rolanberry 88(7?). Errr, whichever one it is that you pop in the Laberynth Lizard rooms.

[Shamaru]

Sorry for dig it up, just found it on search.

bst IS a viable soloing sub, but only for the classes that have their own way of healing or avoiding hits.

Another thing, when BST is used as a sub the chances of success of charming a mob is processed by the following formulae:

(current main lvl + max bst lvl(crop to main lvl if bst lvl > main lvl)) / 2

i.e., if you were playing a 34rdm and had a 20bst, while you'd be a 34/17 rdm/bst, your charm ability will be equivalent to that of (34+20)/2 = lv27. Said another way, the first criteria to have /bst work is to raise it higher than the job you wish to use it with first.

Is this confirmed? If so, it could be very helpful for my main BRD to farm stuffs ^^ as I don't care xp anyway. As a 65BRD, it take forever to kill a lv40 mob. So I may /15BST and charm for speed up killing. With tons of BRD tools (sleep, slow, regen) it could be fast and safe farming. Possible?

Another question is: Refer to above formula, could 70BRD with sub 70BST do charm as good as main 70BST? (may be better with higher CHR !!?) <<hmmm.>>

[Lily]

Re: Thief/Bst

Originally posted by Starcrossed
I did discover that treasure hunter and even gilfinder do not work on kills that your pet makes.

I find *this* to be very intriguing. I've sometimes wondered if the drops of things have been bad while farming as bst/whm because my pet was killing the mobs. ;x

[tongyang]

Originally posted by Shamaru
Is this confirmed? If so, it could be very helpful for my main BRD to farm stuffs ^^ as I don't care xp anyway. As a 65BRD, it take forever to kill a lv40 mob. So I may /15BST and charm for speed up killing. With tons of BRD tools (sleep, slow, regen) it could be fast and safe farming. Possible?

I do not know if this is confirmed or not. Before reading that, my belief of subjob BST charming is basically your main BST job level (if your current job level is >= your main BST job level). But that formula sounds fine too.

But anyway, if you want to find out, just go to that monster you'd like to charm, and... use the "gauge" ability

[jaby]

Re: Re: Thief/Bst

Originally posted by Lily
I find *this* to be very intriguing. I've sometimes wondered if the drops of things have been bad while farming as bst/whm because my pet was killing the mobs. ;x

No THF sub? Eh?

I dunno, you and your pet are basically a 2 member PT, right? So drops wouldn't depend on who kills the mon.

[Shamaru]

Update:

Did try charm tundra tigers (lv34-37) in Beaucedine Glacier, as 66BRD/10BST (64+37CHR). If the formula was right, I should be able to charm as good as 38BST.

Gauge >> some difficulty to charm

Charm was very resist. Even with Bewitching Etude buff and Light Threnody, it took me like 10 charms to stick one (lullaby the tiger np ^^). However, charm lasted very LONG. I bought tiger pet along to kill bat eyes (I was looking for ashriman lens) and we killed 3 eyes in a row without any sign of charm break. I coudn't test full length of charm duration as tiger always steal hate from me even I did full debuffs and melee at start (he hits harder than me with critical 80 often and occationally get hit by the eyes) so he usually died on every 2-3 kills As far as I see it could be like 10+ min.

Next I will level up BST a bit more and see how different ^^

[Starcrossed]

Bst sub and also thief note

Wow, some resurrected this thread from ages ago. Just some notes now that I have a lot more experience as bst...

Bst as a sub is soloable into the low 30s for sure. I soloed as ninja/beastmaster from level 28 to 30 in Qufim charming pretty much the normal mobs: Even Match pugils and clippers and killing pugils, clippers and gigas. In fact it had some advantages over bst main... Level 30 ninja casts enfeebles at full power since its not nerfed for subjob, meaning I could completely cripple those evens and tough. Utsusemi was easy to keep up, resulting in acceptable downtime. The bad news was giving up sic and release, so I'm not sure if I'd ever try this as a serious combo above level 40. I might try it for fun. The key in ninja/bst was obviously full chr gear on a macro for charming.

Also, regarding drops from mobs killed by pet, I still stand by my original statement and its easy to verify. When I did thief/bst, if I got the kill on a random goblin, 54 gil. When my pet killed the same class of mob, it was 26 gil. I can assume the same is true of treasure hunter, because you really notice when you have treasure hunter 2 and the mob usually drops 3-5 items and instead it drops zero or 1, repeatedly.

More support is the theory that treasure hunter may only work on kills that the thief makes, not applying to anyone else in the party. I'm fairly certain this is true, and if you check HNM LS, they frequently use a thief to get the last hit for this reason.

Also, I remember reading a typically cryptic note from SE one day which basically said that gilfinder (and possibly TH by extrapolation) did not function at all when the thief was in a party. I don't have a link to support it, and I better not say it too loud

Streak
60 thief/nin
50 bst/whm

[Rekiem]

Today I tested and I can Charm easy prey monsters has a 75BRD/10BST. Its hard to make it stick though. Sometime I have to cast Charm up to 10 times but eventually, its gonna work. With Lullaby, I can keep the monster asleep and try to Charm it over and over until it works. I cast Light Threnody on the monster, this decrease the monster Light elemental resistance and I think this help me land Charm, the same way Light staff help BST with Charm.

I'd like to test this out a little bit further. I can boost my CHR up to +85, use a Light staff and level BST to 37 so the sub will be more powerfull for Charm. Then I could use Tame and I might be able to Charm a Decent Challenge or have less difficulty charming an Easy Prey. For me as a Bard, this is very tempting because my solo'ing ability with WHM sub is pretty much inexistant. But if I can use a pet, this would help me alot. Its not something I would use when level'ing but during key hunt, skill up or quests, having a pet with triple my damage that can tank for me would make things so much faster.

Right now, I need to level my BST job to 37 so I can test this a little bit further.
I hope some people find out more information and tests result on this subject. Its very interesting.

[DarkenedShadow]

i currently have a very good friend i play with and from wat im reading... its is true that the higher ur bst is the better chance u have for charm to succeed... she is currently level bst and is 58 now... but she also had bard 75.. and with bst sub 10 u all seem to be having trouble charming easyprey... but my friend is always charming the even match flamingos in Ru'An Gardens with little to no trouble... the more she levels the easier it gets... just my 2 cents

[Choup]

Well as you can see in my signature, i'm 75 BRD and 59 BST now.
This week-end i wanted to farm a few and tested BRD/BST.

I tried to charm mob up to lvl 66, charm wasn't certain, but i never missed more than 2 charm, often succeed to charm on 1st try, without bothering with light threnody or light staff. So i was able to charm monster higher than my BST level. The formula (main lvl + bst level) / 2 seems right.

Now i need to test jugs, what level will they be if i use a Courrier Carrier, lvl 75 i hope! anyone tried already ? don't want to attack a tough and get myself slaughtered cause my pet only lvl 59 or so ;P

Choup