Party vs All Other Sub Discussion.

[TBoTB]

I making this topic in response to the many arguments of Party correct vs "Gimped" subs. Accordingly im asking those who would like to perticapate in making suitable guide This fourms Job to post the PROS and CONS of EACH sub weither it be an appropiate sub or a non appropiate sub. Also please indcate which subs you would recommend for pting, perhaps in its own section in your post. If you would like to contribute more besides the job of this fourm please visit the other job fourms. after considerable information is recorded i will begin to make a guide for the site. Credit will go to the Users of FFXIO * taking down each name of a contributer would be tedius and in-effecient but i will work out an appropiate credting title*

The job guide would be added to ffxio database and added to the main page.

[Antwan_3000]

i know that BST/WAR is one of the better combos for PTs...

with Berserk, Double Attack, an ATK bonus, and War Cry you're gonna be doing a very nice amount of damage (especially if you also have an "even match" pet)....

u might also be able to help out the main tank alittle bit in emergencies with Provoke and Defender....

/WAR is "ok" for soloing. i haven't really had any time to play the game as of late, but so far (at level 30) i'm not really having a difficult time soloing and keeping my downtime to a minimum...

but a /WAR sub will never be as efficient for soloing as a /WHM sub. at level 50, Defender may help alittle in terms of soloing, but it's not going to match natural curatives like cure III and etc....

on this forum, i think most would agree that:

for solo- /WHM or /RDM

for PTs- /WAR

[Keftenk]

if you ever get your hand on a Kraken Club, then think about BST/NIN ^^ Ohh boy :D That and BST/WAR are pretty much the "good" regular PT situational combinations.

[Antwan_3000]

i've heard BST/NIN mentioned before....

what are the pros and cons of that combo?..

[Mikeb]

Pro's - Blink (at lvl 74 main 37 ninja you get the second blink spell), and dual wield (at 50 main 25 ninja you get haste bonus) - you can dual wield status effect daggers or clubs.

Con's - you miss out on WHM spells and abilities, you won't get an attack bonus until lvl 50 (when the second dual wield trait reduces weapon delay). You need to buy Ninjitsu powders to cast blink/other spells.

[brandan12]

I just started using BST/NIN in parties, and as a Taru with 2 Battle Axes (I know the delay is hell) I was doing a lot of damage to stuff in Qufim, keeping up with the Hume/Galka/Elvaan melees. It's definately a nice subjob to have, but I only use it for parties.

WHM is definately the road for soloing.

[sudo]

a bit of correction on /nin

you get dual wield at lv 20/10 nin and blink uts: ichi at lv 24/12
and debuffs at 30/15

Please read the ninja threads for full breakdown on dual wield delay times but infact, you do swing faster even at lv 20/10 nin with 2 weapons than with just one weapon.

The delay is not just weapon A + weapon B but rather it is (A+B/dual wield level bonus). Mikeb is correct in that you get a bigger bonus at lv 25 nin but even the first dual wield has a delay modifier. Granted it is only like 5% faster at lv 10 nin, you still swing faster with 2 weapons.

You can blink with uts:ichi but it is very ineffective since it has a long delay hence ppl have been saying that ninjas only really start tanking at lv 35 when they get uts:ni But as a sub nin, you never get the hate anyway, so blinking is kind of a mute point.

Use blink to help pull or to save your butt when you happen to get agro somehow (tank misses 10 hits in a row and no provoke/flash , whm out of juice... etc.)

Ninja debuffs aren't terribly great unless you are tanking and it helps to hold agro a bit but as a sub, it's not really worth it.

How about a bst/sam? At higher lv's anyway, might be kick ass in a pt with rampage and meditate.

[Vasailo]

i personally like bst/nin for parties.


it's a great combo, and as others have mentioned it puts out some nice dmg..


for the lvl 15 scrolls for /nin i use them all the time in parties. either for pulling or whatever.. also the debuff effect works almost all the time.

my set PT setup of
rdm/blm
rdm/sam
blm/whm
drg/war
war/mnk
bst/nin

we put out very nice dmg. and 3x magic bursts are awesome..

we Distortion chain (Ice + Water) and Induration chain (Ice) a lot. so i'll use Huton: Ichi to debuff the Ice resist on the mob before we chain. then the dragoon busts out Vorpal Thrust, and our Warrior will use Raging Rush. or I'll use Rampage for either of the 2 chains. and watch the magic fly for that 3x burst 2x blizzard 2, and 1x Blizzaga 2 (we are only lvls 60 and 61)


when we freeze chain if i don't drop a huton compared to when i do. i notice almost a 100 pt MB difference on freeze. and i would say about a 20 pt difference on the Blizzard 2's

so /nin is my choice and it works great.

[Vasailo]

that second rdm is rdm/sum. typo, sorry ^^

[overflow]

I would probably go with BST/SAM during exp parties =X coz I like to spam Rampage @_@!

[Vasailo]

hehe.. i'll have to try that sometime

[LordBiGGs]

i would think bst/sam would be really good 60+ for solo'ing also. Just have your pets hit mobs til they are low on life like usually. Stop before the mob dies then hit it with a big ws...sounds good to me. you could probably fight without ever even getting hit, since it should die after the ws and you have third eye to absorb that first hit.

[Eropiro]

Re: Party vs All Other Sub Discussion.

I have seen a BST/NIN in action w/ a Krken Club... man that was a sight to see ^^

[Kibogaoka]

Re: Party vs All Other Sub Discussion.

How does BST/RDM compare to BST/WHM? I can't stand leveling WHM before the PT level, (worst experience EVER. Even worse than THF. lol) and I love RDM so how would that work out? I know I'd have to lvl WHM to at least 15, but I can deal with that after playing a fun low lvl job like RDM. :D

[zoo007]

Re: Party vs All Other Sub Discussion.

BST/RDM pro's & cons
Pro's: reuse some of your armor/weapons for lvling; don't have to lvl WHM; spells trade offs vs whm

Con's: don't get as much mp increase from RDM vs WHM; wait a few lvls on getting some spells like cures/blink/raise; you don't get status removing spells like Poisona/Blinda etc

I have to agree I liked lvling RDM better than WHM. I think whm is more efficient at first due to the aliment removing ablility but I'v eheard of alot of people switching back to RDM to use for soloing at the end but I personally have no experience there. You are good either way you go and they both keep your downtime to a minimum.