BST guide to lvl 30

[imac2much]

Oh, stop being such a whiny crybaby. I was incredibly respectful to you in my recent posts, and you blow up like an abused child. Be mature.

Nothing wrong with gimping yourself if you can still be moderately effective (esp since you're soloing). Heck, I am going to make a Galka RDM/BLM soon, and ANYONE can tell you any other race would be better. So what? I'm still going to do it.

But regardless, the fact is that you keep making huge posts stating your "preferences" and "theories", yet you aren't gaining levels and still can't tell us how well this will work at mid levels. You won't prove anyone wrong, because it's a fact /WHM and /RDM are better... there's no way you can disprove that. And I agree with you that /WAR will work, just very slowly (but will still work). Just keep playing and having fun, that's what the game's about, and as you keep gaining every 5 or so levels, keep everyone posted if you want because you like your job so much. Nothing wrong with that, just as how tazirai showed that a DRG/RDM can sort of work in parties. Otherwise, if you just stay level 2x forever, what's the point of posting such lengthy theories and speculations for a game you hardly play?

Don't blow up and try to play the victim just because people don't agree with you. I was respectful, polite, maybe I'm a fool to expect to be treated likewise.

[Antwan_3000]

if you failed to notice the immense amount of sarcasm in my previous post then i feel sorry for you...

btw, BST/WAR sucks ass....

[Mikeb]

Everyone knows that BST/Redmage is the best combo

At high levels u get Phalanx, stoneskin, Protect II, Cure III. A bunch of enspells too...

Oh yeah, BST/War, although not my first choice as combo, would work aight, especially in parties. For solo-ing you'd want to bring some potions and other items...

[Antwan_3000]

Originally posted by Mikeb
Oh yeah, BST/War, although not my first choice as combo, would work aight, especially in parties. For solo-ing you'd want to bring some potions and other items...

exactly...

Berserk, Double Strike, War Cry, an attack bonus job trait, and higher natural STR makes BST/WAR a very nice damage dealer for a PT (but mainly if an "even" pet can be found in the leveling zone)....

and the simple fact that BSTs in general can pit "evens" vs. "evens" (for 100+ xp a pop) makes them an excellent solo class regardless of subjob. i can only imagine that this becomes even more evident after you get "release". i recognize that having a WHM or RDM subjob will ensure that you can chain more mobs with less downtime (which is obviously a good thing) but, if you play alittle more conservitively, great solo xp is possible regardless. and even though a WAR sub isn't as efficient as a WHM or RDM for soloing, it's definitely one of (if not the) best choice for a melee sub. Defender is argueably the best DEF buff you can find. it has an equal duration/recast, offers a large DEF boost that scales up with level, and will lower ATK power so the BST's pet can hold aggro better. if you're not going to have natural curatives with a WHM or RDM sub, having the highest DEF and HP possible is the next best choice for soloing....

and from listening to peeps on this forum, most higher level BSTs join PTs anyway (it's mostly BST-only PTs but some have said that they join regular PTs in areas where an "even" pet can be found). this means that i can peice together some nice solo xp as soon as i log on, but at the same time i can have my seek party flag up so i can possibly join up with others. as i've mentioned before, after level 35 i plan on PTing whenever possible. but it's nice to know that i can always solo until a great PT invite comes along or i can freely leave a PT that's not doing so good and get back to soloing...

but i guess i can't really comment on these concepts because i'm not lvl 50+ yet. but it only seems like common sense to me...

[imac2much]

Originally posted by Antwan_3000
if you failed to notice the immense amount of sarcasm in my previous post then i feel sorry for you...

btw, BST/WAR sucks ass....

And if you don't know how to read, I feel sorry for you. Any 10 year old can tell you're just being whiny in that post with your "clever" sarcasm. Seems all respect and politeness is wasted on you since you decide to flame me in every single response. Just what is your problem exactly? Just because someone disagree with your opinion, you feel the need to break out and cry and flame? Is this how you react to everyone in real life?

I never once insulted your intelligence, and was always respectful with my criticism. If you believe reacting to this with flames and immature whining is normal, you really need to grow up kid.

[Antwan_3000]

Originally posted by imac2much


And if you don't know how to read, I feel sorry for you. Any 10 year old can tell you're just being whiny in that post with your "clever" sarcasm. Seems all respect and politeness is wasted on you since you decide to flame me in every single response. Just what is your problem exactly? Just because someone disagree with your opinion, you feel the need to break out and cry and flame? Is this how you react to everyone in real life?

I never once insulted your intelligence, and was always respectful with my criticism. If you believe reacting to this with flames and immature whining is normal, you really need to grow up kid.

actually, it was illustrating how stupid this debate has become. it would only be "whining" if i was actually serious. hense the heavy use of sarcasm....

and what exactly are you looking for? a "politeness medal"?....

i don't have a problem with you disagreeing with my statements. that's your right. but please do something besides "politely" rehashing the same comments over and over again...

i mean how many times do i have to hear: "don't assume you can play the same way at mid to high levels as you are doing now" or "just gain 20 or more levels before assuming you know how the game works"?....

that's why i made the comment: "i guess i can't really comment on these concepts because i'm not lvl 50+ yet. but it only seems like common sense to me"...

that's right. common sense. your comments about my low level would hold true if i was constantly making huge and specific assumptions about the higher level game based on the earlier game...

for example, if was to say, "it'll be ok. heck, by level 40+, my HP will be in the 700+ area and since the mobs are hitting for about 10-20 pts of damage at level 10, that 10-20 pts of damage will start to mean less and less as my HP continually grows by leveling up"....

ok fine. that would be an ignorant statement based on low level experience..

but on the contrary, i don't need to actually be a level 50+ in order to tell someone, "i think WHMs are one of the most important members of any high level group"...

i don't have to be level 50+ to make that statement becasue it's common sense....

and on that same note, statements like, "the simple fact that BSTs in general can pit "evens" vs. "evens" (for 100+ xp a pop) makes them an excellent solo class regardless of subjob", "Defender is argueably the best DEF buff you can find. it has an equal duration/recast, offers a large DEF boost that scales up with level, and will lower ATK power so the BST's pet can hold aggro better", and/or "if you're not going to have natural curatives with a WHM or RDM sub, having the highest DEF and HP possible is the next best choice for soloing" are all common sense statements....

throughout this debate, no other high level BST/WHMs have denied these simple logics. they've only stated the obvious fact that a WHM or RDM sub will still be the more efficient combo (in which i agree. i've stated this agreement countless times throughout this thread). the only person that i had any extended "argument" with was Keftenk. and i think that it was mostly an issue of him not really thinking about it from a BST/WAR's perspective than anything else. he brought up some really nice high level situations that i'll definitely have to consider but for the most part, we've reached a mutual understanding.....

that being said, why are you still talking? why is the great PLD/WAR telling me how to play a BST/WAR? i've managed to argue a very nice case for this combo and the high level BST/WHMs have yet to truly dispute my "theories", but yet the PAL/WAR does. according to your logic, the only peeps worthy of making any comments about high level BST play (the high level BSTs), have yet to directly discredit my beliefs. they recognize the logic of my "theories" and have opted to take a "wait and see" stance on the debate. the only thing that they wanted to make clear was that a WHM sub is more efficient (a notion that i have never disputed)...

but yet, you still speak?...

don't you find that concept a tad hipocritical? i may not have as much experience and gametime in the BST jobclass as Keftenk, Lily, Big Bird, and some others, but i sure as hell have more time as a BST than you....

how about you go back and make a BST. maybe then you can make some comments based on experience. but until then: "more playing, less posting "...

and before you call be "whiny" again, recognize this: you are the only person that feels that way. maybe it's not an issue of me being "whiny" towards anyone that disagrees with me, but more so and issue of you calling someone "whiny" when they disagree with your statements.

at that point you'll start "whining" about how polite you were and how nobody can take respectful critisim, so they decide to "flame" you....

why don't you "stop being such a whiny crybaby"......

[imac2much]

Oh please. You want to talk about hypocricy? First, hypocricy would only work if I said I knew more about BST than you. Whenever I talk about BST, it's always from my friend, just like you say you talk to high levels, so that's the same. When I tell you to get more high level gameplay, it's just that: GAMEPLAY. And yes I have more experience than you.

Actually, WHM aren't the most important jobs at later levels.... RDM or BRD is. I've been in some good PTs WITHOUT WHM... the main advantage WHM has at later levels are Raise 2 and -na spells... a RDM/WHM takes care of the -na, and the fact that a lot of WHM don't even have raise 2 makes RDM/WHM all the more better. My best team actually didn't have a WHM... it was something like PLD, DRK, RNG, BLM/WHM, BRD/WHM, RDM/WHM. Enough healing really without a WHM. Good job with your "common sense." On my server, WHM are usually lfg for hours sometimes at levels 40+... the priority of wantedness goes BRD or RDM -> PLD or some other tank -> WHM -> damage dealers.

Haha politeness medal... yeah the way I was raised, politeness was considered a good thing, but apparently you weren't raised the same way. And rehashing? If you wouldn't rehash the same arguments then end with a "we'll see ", I wouldn't rehash the same counterarguments that you don't listen to. Besides, everything I posted in the last few posts were new statements in regardes to defense since I just did some testing, the only "rehash" I made was that you should keep playing and leveling instead of just making theories with your godly "common sense."

And about your "common sense." I remember explicitly that at first you were saying weird things like "/WHM and /WAR both have to sit, and it's not that big a difference" or that you could just use things like Selbina Milk (the only HP regen I know of, and only useful at low levels) to help your HP. Now I'm sure you're aware that those things are wrong, but it sure as hell was "common sense" to you back then. Go check back on your initial posts of BST and you'll notice they're strewn with bad "common sense" that you later realized was wrong: http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/sho...4&pagenumber=2

that being said, why are you still talking? why is the great PLD/WAR telling me how to play a BST/WAR? i've managed to argue a very nice case for this combo and the high level BST/WHMs have yet to truly dispute my "theories", but yet the PAL/WAR does. according to your logic, the only peeps worthy of making any comments about high level BST play (the high level BSTs), have yet to directly discredit my beliefs. they recognize the logic of my "theories" and have opted to take a "wait and see" stance on the debate. the only thing that they wanted to make clear was that a WHM sub is more efficient (a notion that i have never disputed)...

And where the hell in this thread did I tell you what to do? You seriously cannot read, or lack basic reading comprehension skills. All I did was "politely" (yes, I know for some reason you take this as an insult) tell you how damage is actually calculated in this game. I did some tests previously, and I know much how DEF and VIT works in this game since I am a PLD. I was just letting you know that Defender won't be nearly as good as you're thinking. I'm not the only one you argue with either, if you search the threads, you get all defensive and argue with anyone who doesn't agree with you. Grow up.

Did I tell you your BST/WAR sucks? NO. Did I tell you how to play your game? NO. Did I presume to know more about BST gameplay than you? NO. So instead of taking offense at every little thing I say when I'm just trying to be informative, why don't you reread my posts carefully. And I apologize if you consider politeness offensive... that explains why you never use it.

[overflow]

chiillll....

[Lily]

lol, the only reason I haven't commented on this combination is because I know very little about it first hand (my war lvl is 1). While BST/WAR looks okay on paper, I cannot say out of 10 how effective it will be. Will be interesting to see how you do 40-50 at any rate.

[Antwan_3000]

Originally posted by imac2much
Oh please. You want to talk about hypocricy? First, hypocricy would only work if I said I knew more about BST than you. Whenever I talk about BST, it's always from my friend, just like you say you talk to high levels, so that's the same. When I tell you to get more high level gameplay, it's just that: GAMEPLAY. And yes I have more experience than you.

you don't have more GAMEPLAY expereience than me with a BST, so (according to your logic) you shouldn't be commenting so heavily on the subject...

Actually, WHM aren't the most important jobs at later levels.... RDM or BRD is. I've been in some good PTs WITHOUT WHM... the main advantage WHM has at later levels are Raise 2 and -na spells... a RDM/WHM takes care of the -na, and the fact that a lot of WHM don't even have raise 2 makes RDM/WHM all the more better. My best team actually didn't have a WHM... it was something like PLD, DRK, RNG, BLM/WHM, BRD/WHM, RDM/WHM. Enough healing really without a WHM. Good job with your "common sense." On my server, WHM are usually lfg for hours sometimes at levels 40+... the priority of wantedness goes BRD or RDM -> PLD or some other tank -> WHM -> damage dealers.

ummm, actually i said:

"i think WHMs are ONE OF the most important members of any high level group"...

and i made no mention of possible subjobs...

good job owning yourself, sport....

Haha politeness medal... yeah the way I was raised, politeness was considered a good thing, but apparently you weren't raised the same way. And rehashing? If you wouldn't rehash the same arguments then end with a "we'll see ", I wouldn't rehash the same counterarguments that you don't listen to. Besides, everything I posted in the last few posts were new statements in regardes to defense since I just did some testing, the only "rehash" I made was that you should keep playing and leveling instead of just making theories with your godly "common sense."

well, how about you quit "counterarguing". wow, problem solved...

basically, if i'm constantly saying the same things over and over again, then just let the information stand....

and your comments from your BST friend' didn't really say anything. i already knew that Defender lowers ATK power. i already mentioned that lowered ATK power would be a good thing for helping my pet keep most of the hate. and if i happen to get hit, my increased DEF would keep damage to a minimum. had your friend actually gave some honest thought to a possible BST/WAR combo instead of immediately writing it off as "horrible", then maybe he/she would've recognized this simple concept....

and yes, "common sense" is a wonderful thing...

And about your "common sense." I remember explicitly that at first you were saying weird things like "/WHM and /WAR both have to sit, and it's not that big a difference" or that you could just use things like Selbina Milk (the only HP regen I know of, and only useful at low levels) to help your HP. Now I'm sure you're aware that those things are wrong, but it sure as hell was "common sense" to you back then. Go check back on your initial posts of BST and you'll notice they're strewn with bad "common sense" that you later realized was wrong: http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/sho...4&pagenumber=2

last time i checked, unless you're using a MP drink, WHMs still have to sitdown to heal MP. pound for pound, it's gonna be less time than healing HP (especially at higher levels), but if a WHM has about -98 HP and and more than -40 DEF in comparison to a BST/WAR (depending on desired equipment), then a BST/WHM is going to healing his/herself quite often. and at that point, the differences might not be that big. and like i said earlier in that link, "it also depends heavily on that individual players "playing style"...


also, Selbina drink does help you regen HP. even if at higher levels, a regen of 40 HP becomes less and less of a huge deal, it's still better than nothing. it's a cheap and stackable curative. period. it's not meant to be the basis of your entire strategy. once again, in the link i said, "i'm not basing my entire soloing career on the premise of using potions [or other store bought curatives]"....

so once again, "common sense" reigns supreme. my beliefs haven't changed a bit and your link only proves it...

And where the hell in this thread did I tell you what to do? You seriously cannot read, or lack basic reading comprehension skills. All I did was "politely" (yes, I know for some reason you take this as an insult) tell you how damage is actually calculated in this game. I did some tests previously, and I know much how DEF and VIT works in this game since I am a PLD. I was just letting you know that Defender won't be nearly as good as you're thinking. I'm not the only one you argue with either, if you search the threads, you get all defensive and argue with anyone who doesn't agree with you. Grow up.

the only thing i find insulting about your "politeness" is the way you keep throwing it up like some garauntee that people will respond to you in the exact fashion that you feel they should respond...

and if not, you cry about it...

and as a PLD you should realize the fact that +DEF is very important and that the numbers don't lie. in the case that me and Keftenk discussed, a lvl 50 BST/WAR with a Raptor Helm (+18 DEF), the DEF job trait (+10 DEF), and Defender (+30 DEF) would have 58+ DEF in comparison to a BST/WHM's +20 from Protect II (assuming that they're wearing a MP hairpin instead of regular head armor)...

and this doesn't even count boiled crab which gives a 20% DEF boost. but anyone can use it's benefits so i won't include it...

so on that basis, you're looking at a -38 DEF tradeoff for a BST/WHM (who's wearing an MP hairpin) that will only get worse as Protect II becomes outdated and Defender continues to scale up through the levels....

i mean, omfg, how can an experienced main tank say that -38 DEF isn't substancial?...

the entire set of Raptor armor (lvl 48) gives +100 DEF. Carapace armor (lvl 45) gives +88 DEF. that's a base diffenernce of 12 DEF for three entire levels. so as you can see +DEF isn't exactly "falling off trees". that being said, huge DEF boosts are quite welcome...

even at level 37, Iron Scale armor will give you a total of +79 DEF. that's still only a difference of 21 DEF...

if you still feel like -38 DEF isn't substancial, then i guess you wouldn't mind being the main tank at level 50 while wearing nothing but level 30 Centurion armor. that'll give you about +66 DEF. that's -34 DEF from your level 48 Raptor armor...

how's that "common sense" working for ya?...

by ignoring that 38 DEF, that means you think it's "ok" to wear armor that was meant to be used 20 levels ago....

even though i was a WAR only up til level 30, i still realize that's just not a good idea. "common sense" tells me that...

that being said, Defender will be a great addition to my abilities. like i said earlier, if i can't have natual curatives (which is the more efficient choice), higher DEF and a higher base HP is the next best choice for soloing....

Did I tell you your BST/WAR sucks? NO. Did I tell you how to play your game? NO. Did I presume to know more about BST gameplay than you? NO. So instead of taking offense at every little thing I say when I'm just trying to be informative, why don't you reread my posts carefully. And I apologize if you consider politeness offensive... that explains why you never use it.

yea, the only thing you told me was that if i decided to play my WAR again as my main character, i don't really need to buy any new armor from level 30 to level 48 since +38 DEF isn't a big deal....

thank you for that high level advice...

[imac2much]

Originally posted by overflow
chiillll....

*chills*

Antwan, you're one of those people who, when angered or upset, refuses to step down and admit any wrongdoings at all. You'll notice at times before I have apologized for being hotheaded, but you don't seem to care at all. You don't want to admit that you blew up and got angry even though I was being polite, and you continue to maintain I was being insulting by being "polite." If people can't even debate in a civil manner, the whole debate is pretty pointless. Again, I'm so sorry that I expected you to be polite as well. I don't see why this is such a difficult concept for you to grasp, I thought it was just "common sense." If I greet you on the street with a "Hey Antwan, long time no see! How ya doin man?", it would be kind of weird if you just exploded with, "Man shut up!! I hate you!! I hate all of you!!!"... well , that would be kind of strange.

It's quite ironic that the two most frustrating posters (you and lun4tic) in this entire ffxionline forum are both on the BST forums. Well maybe you can have more fun with him, since he has no pretext of being nice or civil.

I'll just take your sarcastic whine method and leave it at that. You're always right, you know everything about the game, shame on anyone for implying otherwise.

[Antwan_3000]

Originally posted by Antwan_3000
hey keftenk, i'm just gonna call a "truce"...

i just wanna ask that you please keep the overly negative comments to yourself...

for the most part, this an informational forum. if you feel like i won't make it with a BST/WAR then so be it....

the information has been well documented and it's here for all to see...

from now on, if there's some kind of thread that asks the question, "what's the best subjob for BST?", i will humbly say the same thing i've said since day one: "WHM is the most effecient sub you can have for soloing, but i prefer the WAR sub. here are the reasons why i feel this way: (quickly list reasons), but honestly you won't see the more obvious benefits of BST/WAR until after level 50+"....

fair enough?...

if the point in time comes that i realize i can't make it with a WAR sub and i'm forced to do a WHM sub, feel free to unleash a big: "i told you so"...

on the contrary, if i make it to level 75 BST/ 37 WAR, i won't say anything. i'll just continue to enjoy my character. i'll also be able to offer more experienced information for others who may be looking at a BST/WAR combo....

hope no offence was taken during the course of this debate. i feel like it's gone on long enough....

wow....

it doesn't really seem like i'm one of those people who "refuses to step down" in this post...

you can try and label me anyway you want. it really doesn't matter to me....

i'm not going to admit any "wrongdoing" simply because (in this case) i don't think i'm wrong. you've certainly have failed to convince me otherwise. the only thing that can be done is to "agree to disagree"...

but "agreeing to disagree" doesn't seem to be good enough for you though. it seems that all you want is for me to admit i'm wrong and that you're right. heh, you strike me as a very hipocritical person....

oh well. -later....

[imac2much]

Sigh, Antwan, all I want you to do is READ MY POSTS. I'm positive you don't read my posts and instead you see my name and automatically take offense.

Look at the posts I started out with in this debate. I said I respect your decision to go for BST/WAR. The only thing I added were recent damage calculations I unearthed. If you don't find these useful, I'm sorry, but I don't see why this is worthy of your anger.

Look at the 2 posts I made (when I came in this thread) before you did your sarcastic bit. Did I say BST/WAR was bad and try to make you change your mind? No, quite the contrary.

There is no hypocrisy here. I already said that I'm not trying to change your mind from your job combo. I only added some information you and others might not have known (most people do not know how damage is calculated in this game). This is why I bring up my "politeness", because even now I am unsure where the entire controversy began. Obviously as we both got hotheaded we insulted eachother, but I am still confused where it began.

You won't admit any wrongdoing? I understand that there's nothing wrong with choosing your own subjob, and I never pushed you otherwise. But read through my posts and tell me exactly why you blew up and took offense. For my own reference, tell me where I offended you, and I will apologize. I only get angry when people offend me first.

If you still continue to respond angrily and offensively after this relatively docile post, then I give up. But I hope you are more mature than that, since your posts imply that you are a man of intelligence. I hope I'm not wrong.

[Antwan_3000]

firstly, i'm not angry. so i would appreciate it if you quit saying i was...

and comments like this:

Originally posted by imac2much
I'm positive you don't read my posts and instead you see my name and automatically take offense.

just drive home the point further that you tend to assume too much (in my opinion). just like you're assuming that i'm actually "angry" over an internet forum discussion...

and the exact point where i "blew up" was in your response to my sarcasm....

i used sarcasm in that instance becasue i simply wanted to bring this "debate" to end. no "new" information was really being brought to the table and unnessecary comments were starting to be made...

but after i tried to end this whole thing on a sarcastic note, you came back and called me a "whiny crybaby"...

that was totally uncalled for. mainly becasue if you had actually caught the obvious sarcasm of the previous post, you woud see that i had not backed down from my beliefs but i instead decided to just say what apparently needed to be said in order for all parties concerned to just go about their merry business....

then when i read your reply, and after i pointed out my sarcasm (and i can admit that it was done in a rude manner. but that was ofcource after you called me a "crybaby"), you blew up at me and things started to get dirty....

regardless, my sarcasm had an overtone of truth. and that is: this whole thing is pointless. i'm going to play the game as i see fit. if you feel i'm making some sort of mistake, then so be it. just like you, i walk my own path...

let's just "agree to disagree" and get back to posting positive and informative things about FFXI....

and if i've offended you, i appologize....

i just hate how all of this has got blown out of wack....

[imac2much]

Bleh.

You're right, we made a whole big deal about nothing. You miss one point though..... I really don't oppose your idea about BST/WAR. I just don't know how good Defender is going to hold up, but who knows, right?

You know, I plan to make a BST or RDM when I get my PLD to 60 (do some bcnm60 hopefully to fund my new job), and I don't plan to go BST/WHM. Honestly, I don't find the job very fun (plus I'm a galka, so I don't really want to be main healer). I am thinking of BST/PLD. Sure, I won't have berserk, but that would get too much hate anyway right? I would have *slightly* (not much) more defense than BST/WAR thanks to earlier Phys Def Up passive and protect 1. Then again, I would have less or equal defense if I wear a hairpin instead. Anyway... another good thing about BST/PLD combo is the bonus to CHR, I believe PLD has 4th highest CHR next to BRD, BST, and WHM (someone correct me if I'm wrong). Regardless, it's more than any other melee subjob. I'd also get a few cure 1's and eventually cure 2's to help out.

Cons: lack of paralyze, dia, poisona.....
Pros: no need to raise a subjob I don't enjoy yet still have minor healing.

Well, you never know I guess, but I think this would be enjoyable to just try out. I don't really plan on leveling it to 60 or higher, but it would make a nice new style of playing.