BST guide to lvl 30

[Antwan_3000]

Originally posted by Keftenk
well, once you get into the "dangerous" parts of BST lving, 40+ your only gonna have 700+ HP and your either going to have to mass easys and decents for...forever or have to take them

i doubt i'll have to stop fighting "evens" and "toughs"......

AoE is only a huge problem in closed in places like caves and etc...

i can still chain "toughs" and "evens" just fine in open areas. 600+ damage AoEs only mean more "downtime" in closed-in areas in which i have no choice but to take the hit...

and taking 300-600+ damage from an AoE (when you only have about 700+ HP) is a problem that affects any soloer. not just peeps who don't have a WHM sub. if that's the case the potential downtime is going to be bad regardless....

but i'm certain, i'll be able to handle it when the time comes. i doubt i'll be forced to string together "easies" and "decents" in order to get by...

dream-on...

[Antwan_3000]

hey keftenk, i'm just gonna call a "truce"...

i just wanna ask that you please keep the overly negative comments to yourself...

for the most part, this an informational forum. if you feel like i won't make it with a BST/WAR then so be it....

the information has been well documented and it's here for all to see...

from now on, if there's some kind of thread that asks the question, "what's the best subjob for BST?", i will humbly say the same thing i've said since day one: "WHM is the most effecient sub you can have for soloing, but i prefer the WAR sub. here are the reasons why i feel this way: (quickly list reasons), but honestly you won't see the more obvious benefits of BST/WAR until after level 50+"....

fair enough?...

if the point in time comes that i realize i can't make it with a WAR sub and i'm forced to do a WHM sub, feel free to unleash a big: "i told you so"...

on the contrary, if i make it to level 75 BST/ 37 WAR, i won't say anything. i'll just continue to enjoy my character. i'll also be able to offer more experienced information for others who may be looking at a BST/WAR combo....

hope no offence was taken during the course of this debate. i feel like it's gone on long enough....

[Keftenk]

NOOOOOOOOOO!! we cant have a truce? wtf am i to do during school now?! OMG!!! NOO!!

[Antwan_3000]

lol...

[Lily]

Originally posted by Antwan_3000



and taking 300-600+ damage from an AoE (when you only have about 700+ HP) is a problem that affects any soloer. not just peeps who don't have a WHM sub. if that's the case the potential downtime is going to be bad regardless....

Yes, but um.. with a whm sub you got Cure I, II and III plus Divine Seal. Then you've got Regen too. For a whm, the potential downtime is going to be much better than anyone elses.

And yes, I know spells get resisted from time to time. My point was, they get resisted a *lot* more often versus ITs (usually when you're in parties) than compared to taking on DCs, EMs and toughs.

[Antwan_3000]

yea, noone is denying the benefits of curitives. but there's still a trade-off....

and typically that trade-off is lower DEF and lower HP...

as you might already know, with lower DEF there's a greater need to heal. even though i have no natural curatives, (at higher levels) i'm gonna be able to make up for it in DEF bonuses...

heck, yesterday i played around on the game alittle before i went to night class. i had just eaten a Boiled Crayfish (for an 11% DEF boost) and a WHM had just happened to come along and cast Protect II on me (20-25+ DEF), and this was on top of my natural job trait DEF boost (10+ DEF). plus i was actually wearing regular head armor instead of a hairpin...

with all of that added up, a "tough" was hitting me for around 20 pts a hit. and after my Protect II and food effect wore off, a "decent" was hitting me for about 20 pts per hit...

i don't know about you but having a "tough" hitting me like it was a "decent" is pretty beneficial...

this is going to be the case regularly once i get Defender at later levels (around the time when mobs are hitting for 300-600 AoE :spin: ). plus i'll probably have upgraded to Boiled Crab by then (20%+ DEF)...

a BST/WHM at my level can only muster up a Protect I (10+ DEF) and most BST/WHM wouldn't even think about carrying around DEF foods. plus most would be wearing hairpins as well. so comparitively, they would have been taking much more damage per hit versus that "tough" than i was taking at that point....

But until level 50, the differences in DEF are quite minimal. Protect I is going to nullify my job trait DEF bonus, so the only real difference i get in DEF depends on whether or not a BST/WHM decides to actually wear DEF+ headgear and eat DEF foods...

but after 50, Defender is going to make all the difference. and once the 25+ DEF from Protect II starts to wear thin as you get higher in levels, the benefits of Defender's DEF bonuses scaling up with level will become even more evident....

i can't wait to see what happens if i stack Defender, Protect III, Boiled Crab, and my DEF job trait (plus the highest level headgear). a "tough" might be hitting me like it's an "easy"...

but for the most part, natural curatives > DEF bonuses. and therefore BST/WHM > BST/WAR for soloing... you're not going to get too much of an argument from me on that point...

heh, after all this talk of DEF, Protects, and cures, i was thinking about subbing Paladin...lol. i would get two DEF bonuses as job traits and i can stack Protects and Sentinel on top of that. i would also have Shell. and on top of that, i'll be able to cure myself. one major downside is that a PAL sub would have roughly -39 MP in comparison to a WHM sub. this would result in a desire to pick up some MP+ items....

But as nice as a Paladin sub sounds, a Warrior's attack bonuses and Double Strike will help in terms of finishing off mobs and Berserk is gonna be awesome for PT situations...

ahhh, so many nice combinations... :sweat:

[tracert]

granted you can find someone to cast on you everytime it wears off...

[imac2much]

Awntawn, I know you love your /WAR subjob, so I am not going to bash it in any way or anything. I think it's cool you are trying something different (since like you said, you are not affecting anyone else because BST can solo).

I have something to warn you with, however. I have a BST friend around level 50-55, who has both WHM and WAR to 30. I asked him to try out /WAR (he was quite perplexed, saying it was horrible), and to use defender and all that.

Later he told me it wasn't worth it. Why? Defense goes up, Attack goes down. This may not sound like anything to you, but the ATK % decrease will make you do LESS damage than a BST/WHM without double attack and less inherent STR. Why?

Well, you have to be familiar with the way damage is calculated in this game. Basically, STR and VIT have a linear check, ATK and DEF have a exponential check. The less ATK you have, the more a fixed increase will raise your damage. (i.e. if you have 100 ATK and you raise it by 20, you'll notice a difference. if you have 250 ATK and raise it by 20, there will be no difference)

Not only this, but there are damage caps in this game depending your STR and what the enemy "checks" to you ("high defense", no message, or "low defense") and as you know the check is dependent on ATK. So if you are fighting an enemy that usually has normal defense, if you use defender, it is very likely it is "high defense" and your damage will be halved. He told me it took him longer to kill with /WAR if he used defender, and if he didn't use defender there was no advantage to /WAR. (At 54 /WHM has protect II and will have more defense than /WAR)

I know you're a man of numbers and you like good evidence and proof, so here it is for you. This shouldn't deter you since you are very hardset on going BST/WAR, but I think it would be handy for you to know this beforehand.

[Antwan_3000]

i'm not trying to doubt your friend or anything but Protect II gives 20-25 DEF. Defender gives 31+ DEF at level 30 WAR (with brass scale armor) and the DEF increases as you level....

i'm only mentioning this becasue you said, "At 54 /WHM has protect II and will have more defense than /WAR". basically, for the reason mentioned above, Protect II will never compare to Defender and you'll probably never see a Protect III with a WHM sub since you won't be able to get it until level 94...

also, concerning ATK power situation, i'm counting on the lowered ATK power of Defender to help my pet keep aggro while i step in from time to time and do alittle "damage control" (by meleeing alongside my pet). i've mentioned this before. and if i get alittle aggro, the DEF bonus will keep the damage to a minimum...

once my pet dies or is "Released", Double Attack (lvl 50), the attack bonus WAR job trait (lvl 60) , and War Cry (lvl 70) will help make it easier to finish off the mob....

i can only imagine that at level 55+ a "tough" with only a sliver of HP left can still be dangerous. it's gonna be all about timing my "Releases" perfectly or just potentially taking an xp penalty...

it's all "case by case"....

thanks for the info tho...

i can understand why your BST friend said that /WAR was "horrible". most BST/WHMs feel that way. but it's really not that bad. you just have to know what you can and can't do...

heck, while playing the game, a higher level BST/WHM told me i wouldn't get past level 20 with this combo. but considering that i hardly have time to play the game anymore, the xp is still flowing very nicely...

but that might be because i'm mainly placing "evens" vs. "evens". you'll typically get 20-40 more xp for killing a "tough" but "evens" die faster, with less risk, there's more time to rest your HP/MP in an even matched fight, and they can be exp chained just like "toughs"....

i can basically do this for the rest of the game. i can't really see the need for a WHM sub at that point. maybe if i was constantly trying to chain "toughs", but i'm not. at this point, i take "toughs" only when there's nothing else around and i feel like i know my "even" won't get raped....

heck, i regularly break a potential exp chain by taking a nearby "decent" (instead of taking the time to run around for another "even" or "tough"). they usually give a quick 72 xp pts. that's not bad at all either...

[Lily]

Out of curiousity, what is everyone's defense at their current lvl with their most commonly used equipment?

[Keftenk]

mines 220 something, if i sub my lv 25 war and defender i only have a total of like 30-40 more def, not much more to make a huge impact.

[tracert]

mines 125 at lvl 25...

i'm a taru...

[imac2much]

Antwan please read my post. I was saying that a /WHM has more def than /WAR if WAR doesn't use defender.

Once again, I am not trying to deter you from your path, I know you like it very much. But a warning.. please don't assume you can play the same way at mid to high levels as you are doing now. I know I said this before, but honestly, it's not going to be the same. I am not attacking your low level but please just gain 20 or more levels before assuming you know how the game works. (Yes I know you have talked to your high level friends, but nothing beats true experience, which I don't have for BST either. This is why I am not contradicting your claims, just saying it's not wise to make any claims at all)

Bottom line: more playing, less posting

[Antwan_3000]

y'know what? this is stupid....

i give up.... i think there is something that needs to be said in order for this subject to die:

subbing a WAR is the worst possible thing you can do to your BST. the only feasable subs for BST are WHM and RDM....

period..

no matter what i do, i'm going to have a horrible time trying to make this combo work. it's a complete waste of time...

my personal preferences and my desire to test my theories of a BST/WAR don't mean sh*t. apparently, BST/WHMs and PAL/WARs who care nothing for this combination (and probably wouldn't devote more than 5 minutes of honest effort in order to try and make it work) say that it's pointless and that's all that matters...

i'll never see anything above level 40 with a BST/WAR, but since i'm stubborn and i'm purposely trying to gimp myself, i'm going to try anyway just so i can "prove everyone wrong"...

i'll just continue to be the village idiot with my BST/WAR combo. feel free to point and laugh. i'll be sure help anyone out in the effort to show that i'm just a retard and despite whatever level i'm capable of acheiving with this combo, it actually doesn't really work...

BST/WAR is so horrible that i really can't tell you how i made it this far. i'm sure that if i get to level 30 things will be so bad that i'll just stop playing the game completely...

bottomline: BST/WAR absolutely sucks. but for some strange reason i'm not going to change my subjob. i guess i just enjoy gimping myself....

thank you for showing me the light....

[NewMorning]

Hey i have faith in ya antawn... i think you can make bst/war work.

and since you dont have to rely on parties you dont have to answer to noone but yourself and can do whatever you want.