Forcing Minstrel's Ring

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Forcing Minstrel's Ring

WHM sub is really, really, really, really sub-optimal for this sort of strategy. Auto-Regen will constantly bubble your HP total up. If you're not wanting to level NIN, at least do something like /SCH so you aren't shooting yourself in the foot over what (in the end) is only a minimal, if noticeable, buff.

/SCH would help force it and there's the cures in case you get too low, but any damage past 50% and Sublimation shuts down and you have to restart it again. In fact, you might be forced to restart a lot since without a SMN to back you on Stoneskin, you have no means to defend yourself . And then theres the whole "no Blink/Stoneskin" bit from /SCH which scares away most people.

An oh look, minimal buff is minimal. Seems I'm not alone in that view.

Again, I think its more trouble than its worth and creates a potential liability groups don't need and many people just aren't conditioned to handle. As I've said, I can make a note of it and would try to work with the BRD on it, but the second I ever saw a BRD I knew that couldn't manage it, I told him to stop trying to force the latent.

If he didn't listen, I looked for another BRD to replace him.

Efficiency is nice, but its sometimes overdone.

[KingOfZeal]

Re: Forcing Minstrel's Ring

I was going to work on macros to fall back onto battlefield elegy, Callisto, I'm not entirely sure why I never thought of it before. Easy fix though.

The only race that really struggles to do equip-swap into <75% HP is Galka (need some pretty specialized EX gear to do so). Most other races can get by; the real question is whether you have enough inventory to support all that switching around. If you do, just calculate what your HP cutoff point is and inform your healer(s).

Honestly though, unless your endgame group is very focused and good, you're going to have people auto-panic and heal you on reflex in an alliance. For external parties, you can just prevent those by using /blockaid on (but you should be doing that anyhow in many cases).

WHM sub is really, really, really, really sub-optimal for this sort of strategy. Auto-Regen will constantly bubble your HP total up. If you're not wanting to level NIN, at least do something like /SCH so you aren't shooting yourself in the foot over what (in the end) is only a minimal, if noticeable, buff.


Icemage

As far as the panic-heals, I do understand those, and I don't generally get upset over them. I point out to them they healed me when I asked them not to, they apologize and I think tend to keep me in mind from that point on, at least for a little while. It's more about the people who insist on healing me, time after time, after telling them multiple times. That's more or less what my set would be for, to skirt around them.

I also do very much understand that /whm isn't the ideal sub when dealing with HP-based latents like this, but I do outright refuse to even unlock nin, much less level it, and there's very little else that I can use -- PUP (useless as a sub after 20), DNC (Useless unless I melee, but might provide an adequate CHR bonus), or SMN (could work for a third pulling method).

Again, I think its more trouble than its worth and creates a potential liability groups don't need and many people just aren't conditioned to handle. As I've said, I can make a note of it and would try to work with the BRD on it, but the second I ever saw a BRD I knew that couldn't manage it, I told him to stop trying to force the latent.

I would completely agree with this, even if I'm the one who was doing it. I know that occasionally a yellow HP could mean death soon, especially if you're fighting something with a wicked AoE -- as a bard, I can't maintain songs and stay outside that AoE range at the same time. I have died a few times because of having yellow hp and getting hit by a few stray AoEs. But, I think, to dismiss a decent item like a Minstrel's ring just because it could lead to death is backwards thinking. A decent increase in efficiency would outweigh the slight decrease of a death, especially in a place like Einherjar where weakness isn't a factor for me -- I reraise, and run back into the melee to get my songs put up.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Forcing Minstrel's Ring

I also do very much understand that /whm isn't the ideal sub when dealing with HP-based latents like this, but I do outright refuse to even unlock nin, much less level it, and there's very little else that I can use -- PUP (useless as a sub after 20), DNC (Useless unless I melee, but might provide an adequate CHR bonus), or SMN (could work for a third pulling method).

If you don't want to go /NIN, I think it's best to stay out of non-manaburn merit parties. (/COR is best for those manaburn parties--just for Corsair's Roll.) Unless there's another BRD pulling, I'm just not impressed with BRD/WHM pulling in WS spam merit parties. (Ever seen BRD/WHM casting Erase after every pull on Colibri? Getting slaughtered pulling Wyvern or Mamool with Raptor pets? Think those things don't slow things down?)

For events, /SCH is usable in my experience, depending on the amount and nastiness of AoE. Else, /RDM is quite nice for Fast Cast and Stoneskin if the alliance's -na needs are adequately covered. If a BRD is not on /BLM, that is.

If one doesn't quite have the gear to activate the ring outright, bring what's available and take along Elshimo Pachira Fruit plus Antidotes. Come to think of it, one can also spam fruits on /WHM if HP- gear set is sufficient, but seems like that'd annoying, not to mention one would have to go without Stoneskin, one of the biggest reason to use /WHM.

There is no excuse for not having all the needed SJs for someone who's been BRD75 for a while, however. Iin my opinion, if a BRD is used for:

WS spam merit party: /NIN.
Manaburn merit party: /NIN, /WHM, and /COR (just Corsair's roll is fine, though a bit embarrassing to be under-leveled.)
Events/Endgame: /WHM and /BLM.
Minstrel's Ring: /NIN, and /RDM (or /SCH). Should be odd situations where other SJs would work fine or even better, but /NIN and /RDM (or /SCH) pretty much the best or at least adequate in most situations.

[KingOfZeal]

Re: Forcing Minstrel's Ring

As I've said, I refuse to unlock nin, mostly on principle. I don't doubt that I would get passed over easily for a brd/nin, but I have done quite well in a meritpo setting as /whm -- these days I don't bother with erase, since the gain I get from being continually in the yellow (and thus my Minstrel's ring active) more or less offsets the perma-elegy I end up getting. I do know that /nin can certainly outperform me as far as efficiency goes, but I can still do what's asked of me. Also, /whm helps on those rare (to the point of being taboo) situations where I use Horde Lullaby and everyone gets slept. More often than not, I end up tanking for a couple hits, and I can get off the Curaga to wake everyone. Sub NIN, there's no way to wake anybody up, which can be especially detrimental if the healer gets slept.

As far as the subjob goes, all I ask is that you all respect my decision to not use /nin, and understand that I do realize the ramifications. For those who need a little more subtle response, respectively STFU about it already. My main goal here was to get suggestions on building a latent set, with some regard to my sub (being only that I do have to deal with Auto-regen, which I'm also willing to deal with for this little project).

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Forcing Minstrel's Ring

As I've said, I refuse to unlock nin, mostly on principle.

As far as the subjob goes, all I ask is that you all respect my decision to not use /nin, and understand that I do realize the ramifications.

Well, to each his own. And, you'll get more respect if you give good reasons.

but I have done quite well in a meritpo setting as /whm -- these days I don't bother with erase, since the gain I get from being continually in the yellow (and thus my Minstrel's ring active) more or less offsets the perma-elegy I end up getting.

50% slow's effect on recast is not fixed by 25% Song Spell Casting Time reduction. Not by a long shot. Not even with a Haste on top of that ring activating.

Compared that with 25% SSCT- all by itself without Elegy on oneself, and the difference is night and day.

Sub NIN, there's no way to wake anybody up, which can be especially detrimental if the healer gets slept.

Or, just tank on Utsusemi for a while if have link or if Foe Lullaby fails, and not use Horde Lullaby on Colibri.

[Callisto]

Re: Forcing Minstrel's Ring

No form of AoE sleep should ever, ever be used on a Greater Colibri, unless you're actually planning on popping an instant warp afterwards to MPK the group, lol.

WHM sub is serviceable, but even compared to /RDM it's nowhere near ideal for pulling. Unless your HP force set is just barely making it by a couple of HP, Auto-Regen is pretty negligible since you can just hit the macro again before any song where you've gone back over, or use some form of Windower scripts/Spellcast to automate it a bit if you're not into the button presses.

If people are playing properly really there's no reason that a healer should be slept in a merit party, and if it's Lullaby it only lasts 30 seconds anyways, a competent group should be able to play defensively for that amount of time.

If you're really against leveling NIN to at least 37 that's your deal, I dislike NIN, I disliked leveling it, when I hit 37 I had a rep waiting, popped my Ni scroll and hit Mijin, HP'd to put all my gear/tools on the AH and never touched the job again. Heavily disliking it didn't keep me from realizing that pretty much every job I'd want to level would be held back at one point or another if I didn't do it, same with BLM, WHM, and DNC subs.

[ShepardG]

Re: Forcing Minstrel's Ring

Wow KoZ, I didn't realize you didn't have /nin...

Why don't you wanna level it? I say out of sheer curiousity?

If you get it to 11 you could smn burn it to 37 with 2 pulls ^^ probably take like 3 hrs