is ninja a good sub for brd??

[bside]

Re: is ninja a good sub for brd??

while /NIN normally doesn't work well (or doesn't serve any purpose) for regular exp parties, for a merit party in Uleguerand Range things become totally different, provided BRD's there as a puller.

the primary targets there r Demons, and as we know they move too fast. if BRD pulls them from somewhat far away location from the camp, he/she could be dead before NIN, WAR, or someone else vokes them off. so as a safety measure, /NIN becomes a good choice under this very specific circumstance. not to mention it's also good to evade Stun which Ahriman might use as BRD pulls it.


some might argue "BRD shouldn't be pulling," but rather than moving around finding the next mob, it's usually better, or in other words we can kill more in less time, if BRD is pulling mobs while others r still fighting another, especially because unlike the tomb where we just "circle" the route, mobs r around camps to every possible direction in Uleguerand.


nevertheless, like others pointed out, /WHM is indeed a most used sub for BRD, and /RDM for fastcast probably comes next. and even if u become a puller in regular parties, unless u r dealing w/ fast-moving mobs like Demons, /NIN shouldn't be needed. but in order to "adjust" to every possible circumstances, lvl'ing NIN to 37 might be a good idea, if time permits.

[Cookietovar]

Re: is ninja a good sub for brd??

yea basically turned into a puller on bard... and for those of u that say brd is boring, it might be but i like it, its something different from meleeing :b
yesh its lots of work ; ; wears me out.


75NIN 75DRK 75SAM 75BRD 69RDM

[Palom_FF]

Re: is ninja a good sub for brd??

nin is a pretty catch-all sub for soloing. If you double mambo yourself I bet you're quite durable with utsusemi. That's probably the context that your friend was thinking of when he said it could be good.

In a party it's never going to be useful to you.

BRD/NIN is quite useful in Uleguerand Range in a roaming TP party; where the BRD is pulling and the mobs run fast and don't sleep all that well. I've had a few deaths there as BRD/WHM from back-to-back lullaby resists (albeit the last time I levelled in Uleguerand I was Lv73). Even still, I tend to favor /RDM more when I'm pulling. Fast Cast trait + Loq. Earring + Rostrum Pumps + Sha'ir Manteel makes it a hell of a lot easier to get my songs on and head out for the next mob. Since my Stoneskin is pretty weak as it is, Phalanx helps a bit as well.

Brd is the origonal free ride to 75.

haha I wish I had a free ride to 75 with it.... I swear I'm cursed. Going days on end with no invites is really getting to me (I'm on my 6th hour of LFG today as I type this; 4 hours yesterday with nothing), especially since BRD is so horrible to solo with and I'm confined to sit in town and twiddle my thumbs. I had a much quicker time levelling BLM than I did with BRD (took me a month-and-a-half to level BLM 44-75; three months for BRD 40-75). There have been times when I've been the only BRD on the entire server seeking and still nothing. hehe

[Etain]

Re: is ninja a good sub for brd??

I haven't tried it really, because my nin is an underwhelming 16, but I have heard as others have posted, that's its really nice for Ulegrand Range.

I've also heard it's nice for Deco. Weapon parties in sky. Whirl of Rage hurts. ;-;

Someday I'll stop being lazy and get it to 37. Someday...

[Thott]

Re: is ninja a good sub for brd??

If you sub ninja you need atleast Horde and Foe lullaby after getting to higher levels
In a exp pt you wanna sub whm but solo at 75 whm and nin are both nice >.>
Yah you get hit but you can cure yourself, raise, reraise, SS, blink and so forth
plus if you do go /nin some mobs you still wont be able to take because they attack to fast

[Linliel]

Re: is ninja a good sub for brd??

For solo, sure, nin is fine, and for some very specific types of parties (merit point burn parties), it's pretty good. However, up until then, stick with WHM. You'll be much more useful to your party being able to help out backup healing and status removing than having a pretty useless dual wield (you're not meleeing in general exp parties after 25, are you? right? good!) and some shadows in case the mob happens to turn to you (unlikely unless you're pulling).

As an aside, my LS has been having some awesome merit/IS parties with 2 bards recently; I pull and buff and throw out a few cures, and the other main heals and buffs and whacks away with his dagger, and it's awesome fun. Even then, we both sub WHM, because it's the most useful sub for the party as a whole. Pity everyone else found out about our exp spots in ToAU :-(

[Leri]

Re: is ninja a good sub for brd??

BRD/NIN is quite useful in Uleguerand Range in a roaming TP party; where the BRD is pulling and the mobs run fast and don't sleep all that well. I've had a few deaths there as BRD/WHM from back-to-back lullaby resists (albeit the last time I levelled in Uleguerand I was Lv73). Even still, I tend to favor /RDM more when I'm pulling. Fast Cast trait + Loq. Earring + Rostrum Pumps + Sha'ir Manteel makes it a hell of a lot easier to get my songs on and head out for the next mob. Since my Stoneskin is pretty weak as it is, Phalanx helps a bit as well.

I've never had much trouble sleeping the demons in the range. Did they change this? (?) Even so I prefer /NIN to pull there, because of thier running speed. I used to die alot with /WHM so I started subbing ninja as an experiment.. it did make things faster. I also didn't get hit by the weird AoE's they have there alot (It takes 2 or 3 shadows.) Meaning the healer didn't have to worry about me. :D

To the OP: Try WHM. These weird subjobs people keep comming up with aren't viable until high levels anyway. xD

[Thott]

Re: is ninja a good sub for brd??

I've never had much trouble sleeping the demons in the range. Did they change this? (?) Even so I prefer /NIN to pull there, because of thier running speed. I used to die alot with /WHM so I started subbing ninja as an experiment.. it did make things faster. I also didn't get hit by the weird AoE's they have there alot (It takes 2 or 3 shadows.) Meaning the healer didn't have to worry about me. :D

To the OP: Try WHM. These weird subjobs people keep comming up with aren't viable until high levels anyway. xD

I have also had a easy time sleeping demons everywhere >.>
I say demons don't sleep very long because I can't scram when pulling them from Xar by the castle to dynamis entry for ppl in my ls to kill while waiting to enter. Last time I did it I was kinda rough with me ending up with 5 hp after running that whole way... funny for me to watch tho >.>
ok i admit I drifted off >.>

[Shidori]

Re: is ninja a good sub for brd??

i think its the best sub for solo playing

[Hamlet]

Re: is ninja a good sub for brd??

To the op, use /whm until 74, and even after if you want to.

Bard/nin is really awesome for pulling. They don't have any mp, so they never need to rest, and they have a couple no-mp cost sleeps. Bard/nin is probably the main reason you see people posting such high chains in melee burns.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: is ninja a good sub for brd??

This is one of those questions that basically asks, "Will this let me get out of levelling White Mage?"

BRD/NIN is something I generally view as a disease spread from high levels to low levels. Not only is /NIN not that needed for TP Burns, its gimp everywhere else but in solo application. I've had to suffer two PTs this week with BRD/NINs in the 40s... what little situational uses /NIN may have it added NOTHING to the BRDs performace save for an excuse to melee rather than SUPPORT the PT like a BRD should.

[Icemage]

Re: is ninja a good sub for brd??

This is one of those questions that basically asks, "Will this let me get out of levelling White Mage?"

BRD/NIN is something I generally view as a disease spread from high levels to low levels. Not only is /NIN not that needed for TP Burns, its gimp everywhere else but in solo application. I've had to suffer two PTs this week with BRD/NINs in the 40s... what little situational uses /NIN may have it added NOTHING to the BRDs performace save for an excuse to melee rather than SUPPORT the PT like a BRD should.

Have to agree with this.

/WHM is by far the best Bard subjob for party play up through at least level 60, and probably quite a bit later.


Icemage

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: is ninja a good sub for brd??

From what I've read they seem to play like a cross between rdm and thf. Sounds like good fun to me.

Bard is fun, but not really all that much like THF or RDM. Bard is slightly similar to Thief in that you need party to position correctly in order to perform optimally. However, Thief is basically useless during battle if people don't set up for their SATA, where as a Bard is always useful.

Can't convince melees to move away from PLD? Entire frontline gets Madrigal and Ballad. Optimal? No. Better than having nothing? Oh yeah. Much better than that.

Can't get people to stop wiggling, so SA'ed but not TA'ed and end up tanking on THF every other battle? Er, you start inventing excuses to leave the party. >_> ("Honey? Want me to cook tonight? The game? Don't worry about it; I told you I'm not addicted." "Hey, guys. I gotta go. Wifey demands dinner.")

Compared to Thief, Bards wants a lot more control over party formation, but can make do with a lot less cooperation.

My BRD30 and RDM44 don't seem to resemble each other at all. Bard is always about using time and distance wisely, where as RDM is maximazing benefit of every MP while lasting from Convert to Convert. However, I would say Bard and Red Mage are a great combo to have in party, with complimentary sets of buffs and debuffs, and impressive amount of MP refresh for all.

[

nfortunately, for the past 20 levels I've only played with two bards and those two bards might as well have been war/whm. They were bad. Keeping Ballad on was too much to ask, and the idea of landing different buffs on the tank was lost on them.

I gave up on different buffs for tanks in the last few levels on my Bard. Most of the time, the melees love to crowd the tank, for whatever the reason. The rest of time, people just wiggle around or the mob runs from gimp tanks to chain nuking BLM's... -_-

* * *

As for BRD/NIN, I would say they are very useful, but only in certain party set up's. Specifically, for it's great for some Bard pullers. Want to melee? Er, no, wrong reason. A BRD dual wielding dagger is all about giving the mob more cheap TP, and they are already cheap with their TP moves. /NIN is also a bad choice if you're fighting things with AoE attacks, since Curaga from /WHM once or twice a battle will be so much more helpful.

I guess a good general rule would be to use /WHM instead of /NIN, unless:
A. Your bard is Lv.24 or higher; and,
B. You need to pull; and,
C. Party has too many people with /WHM that there's no point for you to cure at all.

Unless condition A, B, and C are all met, there's really no need for /NIN.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: is ninja a good sub for brd??

I guess a good general rule would be to use /WHM instead of /NIN, unless:
A. Your bard is Lv.24 or higher; and,
B. You need to pull; and,
C. Party has too many people with /WHM that there's no point for you to cure at all.

I've said it a dozen times before, but I'll say it again here:

/NIN is NOT for pulling.

If you can't pull a mob that isn't a bird or tiger w/o getting tagged a lot, please just don't pull. You stink at pulling and have no reason to be doing it. I've pulled as BRD/WHM, COR/RNG and RNG/WAR and seldom, if ever, do I get hit.

A good puller knows not only his max safe distance from the mob, but how to use the terrain to his advantage to prevent taking damage from a pulled mob. Even when a do go /NIN as RNG, I seldom lose a shadow over it.

RNG and THF sub /NIN not for pulling, but for the added benefits that Dual Wield provide them. RNG gets more accuracy bonuses and THF gets better TP returns and as such, more chances to SC and deal damage with SATA. I don't sub /NIN for COR because COR gets no native accuracy bonus and /RNG is the best place to get it. It offers more base accuracy overall for COR than /NIN could ever hope to offer.

BRD/NIN is a BRD gutting half of his job, which is to support the PT and that's just sad because BRD is a job that can hemmorage EXP and get it back in no time flat. Say what you want about Hording multiple mobs in TP burn, it can be done and done just as well with /WHM. We have the -% physical damage gear to pull it off and access to more of it than PLDs actually do. Plus, unless a mob has Stun, our songs go uninterrupted.

BRD - no matter the situation - is about reducing downtime and turning the PT into a wrecking crew. /WHM is the best means to support this function because our MP can be vastly more expendable. Stuff like "na" spells and cures can eat a lot of WHM's MP, it should be the BRD spotting them on that where they can.

If /NIN for pulling is your best reason for subbing it, please just don't pull.

[Icemage]

Re: is ninja a good sub for brd??

I've said it a dozen times before, but I'll say it again here:
NIN is NOT for pulling.

Like hell it isn't. The ONLY excuse to use BRD/NIN is for pulling. If you've never seen a XP chain 100+ party in Bhaflau Thickets with a BRD/NIN, then kindly bow out of the conversation. I'd kill to have /NIN available as a subjob for this reason alone. /WHM is a much slower puller than /NIN is.

Please stop posting opinions about things you do not have experience with.

If you can't pull a mob that isn't a bird or tiger w/o getting tagged a lot, please just don't pull. You stink at pulling and have no reason to be doing it. I've pulled as BRD/WHM, COR/RNG and RNG/WAR and seldom, if ever, do I get hit.
A good puller knows not only his max safe distance from the mob, but how to use the terrain to his advantage to prevent taking damage from a pulled mob. Even when a do go /NIN as RNG, I seldom lose a shadow over it.
RNG and THF sub /NIN not for pulling, but for the added benefits that Dual Wield provide them. RNG gets more accuracy bonuses and THF gets better TP returns and as such, more chances to SC and deal damage with SATA. I don't sub /NIN for COR because COR gets no native accuracy bonus and /RNG is the best place to get it. It offers more base accuracy overall for COR than /NIN could ever hope to offer.

For RNG and COR, /NIN makes sense since they can get extra accuracy from an off-hand weapon (and in some cases a bit of TP from melee depending on playstyle) . BRD use /NIN for entirely different reasons.

BRD/NIN is a BRD gutting half of his job, which is to support the PT and that's just sad because BRD is a job that can hemmorage EXP and get it back in no time flat. Say what you want about Hording multiple mobs in TP burn, it can be done and done just as well with /WHM. We have the -% physical damage gear to pull it off and access to more of it than PLDs actually do. Plus, unless a mob has Stun, our songs go uninterrupted.

BRD/NIN outperforms BRD/WHM in fast-pull situations like Caedarva Mire and Bhaflau Thickets. Not that /WHM is bad, but you can't avoid getting tagged at least once by Sea Puks on even medium pulls - they move fast and attack fast. Utsusemi solves this problem neatly. Blink does not.

BRD - no matter the situation - is about reducing downtime and turning the PT into a wrecking crew. /WHM is the best means to support this function because our MP can be vastly more expendable. Stuff like "na" spells and cures can eat a lot of WHM's MP, it should be the BRD spotting them on that where they can.
If /NIN for pulling is your best reason for subbing it, please just don't pull.

BRD/NIN > BRD/WHM for manaburn parties at all levels, too except maaaaybe in Caedarva Mire against Treants, since there are some Imps sprinkled in. That extra few seconds saved from not having to cast Blink and Stoneskin makes for much safer and smoother pulls.

Lullaby may not be interruptible, but Blink and Stoneskin aren't a sure defense and take a lot of time to cast. Utsusemi: Ichi does not, and is a near guaranteed defense against random wake-ups (and at 74+, Utsusemi: Ni can buy you precious time to recast lullabies in a crisis with multiple links, a VERY common occurrence in ToAU camps).

My best XP chain thus far is Chain #204 in Bhaflau Thickets with me on RDM/WHM and a BRD/NIN puller. What downtime do you speak of?


Icemage