Confused...Question

[Rones]

Ok, I admit 1->74 as whm I never gave much thought to bard's and double ballad. I got it and liked it. However now I'm the brd casting it and hit a little hitch I hadn't noticed. Right not my brd is 59, so only had two ballads for four lvls.

My routine in my last party involved hitting all the melees and tank with mad+min. We had a thf and they took forever to get formation steady enough for me to avoid melee buffing pld, so I just hit them all. I would then follow this up with ballad 1 and then ballad 2 hitting the mages and only the pld (they would have formation sorted correctly by this point). I was always under the impression that new song always replaced oldest song, but that didn't happen in this party. Pld would get mad->minuet->ballad1->ballad2. However, after all the casting was done, me and the pld had minuet and ballad 2. The second ballad spell overwrote the previous ballad instead of overwriting minuet. I tried switching the order and doing ballad 2->ballad 1, but that made things worse leaving me and pld with minuet and ballad1.

Thus my quandry. Why was ballad replacing itself instead of minuet? Is there an easy fix I'm missing?

For now I'm just going to have to avoid hitting pld with any melee buffs before hitting him with ballad, but whenever the party has a thf that makes things more difficult.

[Loki]

Were you using a Cornette +1?

[phaze]

Double Ballad

old thread that I used when this problem came up for me:
A question about double Ballad.

Because of the +song instruments, the strength of the melee buffs is still too high before you start the second ballad, for it to overwite both of the melee buffs.

My solution for double ballad is the same as Vilurum's: sing the melee buffs, do something else for 10-15 seconds (cures, debuff the mob, etc.), then put the two ballads up.

[RuneGrey]

SE really needs to put in a Ballad +2 insturment at some point, if only because this is a royal pain in the rear. The best alternative you have is making sure you do your Ballad buffs first, then buff your melees if you can. Sometimes positioning just isn't going to work out - your party leader will hopefully realize that its a royal pain in the rear when you've got a SATA obsessed THF trying to trick off the tank two or three times a fight.

To be honest... I've never had this problem. It seems to be a lot more common among those of us who use a Minstrel's Ring (I've had one, but eventually sold it back after getting Curaga II from sub - just was never effective.) My usual macro is (Ballad I) /wait 12 (Ballad II) - its always best to have the stronger song go on later so that you get the most benefit for as long as possible, and I've never had any problems with my songs not overwriting that I've noticed.

[Rones]

Thank you Phaze. That was my problem exactly.

[Lushipur]

Originally posted by RuneGrey
SE really needs to put in a Ballad +2 insturment at some point

double ballad = 7mp/3sec O_O {Impossible to Gauge}

however it exist and is the final stage of relic horn

[CarbonFibre]

Originally posted by Lushipur
double ballad = 7mp/3sec O_O {Impossible to Gauge}

however it exist and is the final stage of relic horn

I've heard before that even that one does not make ballad tick more MP refresh (maybe only makes the song last longer?).

PS: ran into one of the posts on this
http://www.killingifrit.com/forums.php?m=posts&q=36264

[Lushipur]

Originally posted by CarbonFibre
I've heard before that even that one does not make ballad tick more MP refresh (maybe only makes the song last longer?).

PS: ran into one of the posts on this
http://www.killingifrit.com/forums.php?m=posts&q=36264

after hearing this, now i can quit the game -_-

[Jei]

do +Peon instruments increase HP per tick?

[Lushipur]

Originally posted by Jei
do +Peon instruments increase HP per tick?

yes


the fact is, mp+ item are quite dangerous...if a brd can give 7mp/3sec, all mages job are too powerfull and the game is not balanced anymore...

[Icemage]

That thread does not tell the whole story.

Here's the rules about song durations:

For each +1 from an instrument, the duration of your song increases by 10 seconds.

When a new song lands on a player, this is what happens:

- If the new song has more base duration than any existing songs have left, the new song will be added to the player, and the song with the least duration is dropped. The existing song which was not dropped will become the song that is dropped the next time a new song lands on that player.

- If the new song has less duration than either of the existing songs (or even BOTH songs), then the new song is still applied, and the existing one with the lowest duration is dropped, EVEN IF the new song has less duration than the one being dropped. However, in this case, the newest song will be the one dropped the next time a new song effect is applied to that player.

Try this yourself and check your songs when you're done:

Sing Madrigal with Traversiere+1:
Madrigal +2: 2:20

8 seconds later finish singing Minuet with Cornette+1:
Madrigal is now at 2:12, Minuet at 2:20

8 seconds later finish singing Ballad II:
Madrigal is dropped, Minuet at 2:12, Ballad II at 2:00

8 seconds later finish singing Ballad I:
Ballad II is dropped, Minuet at 2:04, Ballad I at 2:00

8 seconds later finish singing Mambo with Gemshorn+1:
Ballad I is dropped, Minuet at 1:56, Mambo at 2:20

If you do this fast enough (using /RDM sub for fast cast really makes this obvious), you'll see that after singing Mambo, you have NO Ballad songs left on you.

---

So what to do? Since it's usually not practical to wait 14 seconds before casting Ballad, this is what I do:

Madrigal
Minuet

IF either song hits the PLD (or if I'm really off my stride and hit the PLD with both):

Wait 4 seconds (usually do this while moving, or singing Threnody)
Ballad I
THEN Ballad II.

This lets you at least leave Ballad II on the paladin.

I make it a habit to always sing Ballad I before Ballad II. This gives me the option to overwrite Ballad I if I have to, if I catch the PLD with a melee buff by accident, or if a summoner or other mage wanders into melee zone to cast buffs. It also leaves an incoming SMN using Earthen Ward with Ballad II instead of Ballad one if they get caught in the crossfire for songs while using bloodpacts.


Icemage

[Miriamel]

I find casting Ballad I first better for any job with MP... PLD and even DRK (when MP is low) should gather up with the mages after-battle, but sometimes they only notice / remember when Ballad I is already being cast, and only get there in time for Ballad II.

If PLD actually line up properly so they can get ballad throughout the battle, the better, but in 75 levels of BRD that has only happened about what, 10 times... when I asked them to, it lasted a good five minutes. /sigh

And yes, as SMN I do love when a BRD casts Ballad I first - it ensures I get at least Ballad II.

Less significant, but even as BRD I like to have at least Ballad II on me - I'm a firm believer of actually using the MP my sub gives me.