Could I get confirmation.

[Balodoth]

I've heard that a person is allowed two songs PER Bard. I just recently heard that while this is true, they aren't allowed to be the same songs. Is this correct? It makes sense to me, but I'd like to try it out, or at least get confirmation from a few people who have.

The reason I ask it that I want to try DRG/BRD at 50, so I can Ballad or Paeon. If my party has no BRD, then this is not an issue. But if there is a BRD, I want to know if I can only Ballad the melee since the BRD will obviously be handling it for the mages.

And please do not discuss how good an idea it is to sub BRD. I've done my research, and I'm only trying it out. This isn't my long-term plan for EXP parties. I just want to know if I have to pick a different song than the other BRD for it to stack.

[Sebazy]

I can confirm that 2 bards cannot stack the same song.

[Laehn]

You have it right.

For each brd main: 2 different songs max.

For each brd subbed: 1 different song max at roughly less than half power excluding ballad and paeon.

In your case, you could have 3 different songs on each person if youre partying with a brd.

All the songs must be different songs. They can be the same type of song though. For example. You could have two brds both singing 4 different minuets increasing attack power by a bunch or singing 4 paeons for some massive regen. Id let the brd handle all debuffs and songs with corresponding instruments if at all possible. Good luck.

[Balodoth]

Thanks

LOL, OK thanks. It sounded logical, but I wanted to verify that. It first came up when I asked my LS why 6 SMN/BRD couldn't work with them all ballading each other. Of course, if that did work, it would be sweet.

I found that my ATK was 1 lower and STR 2 lower than with WAR subbed on a 32 DRG, but Minuet boosted ATK to 7 higher. Of course, that doesn't match the boost from Berserk, and I haven't taken time to compare the permaboost from Minuet with the tempboost from Berserk. I'm fairly certain it's in favor of WAR though. Of course, by the time I get to 50 I have all the Threnodies and can trigger Heal Breath endlessly without timers getting in the way.

Another question: Is it easy to convince a BRD to skip Ballad and focus on Etudes, Ballad II, Operetta, etc. and let me Ballad? Or should I just do Ballad for melee (PLD, DRK, etc.)?

Sidepoint: If they made an instrument other classes could equip, even if it had a String/Wind Skill -25%, no song bonuses, and wasn't equippable until level 30, I'd get it in a heartbeat.

[Laehn]

I guess it depends on the brd. You'll have to play around with it and find out what works best. As long as youre keeping ballad on i dont see why the brd would mind. Unless the brd is lvl 75 and has a millenium horn >.>;

I dont encourage subbing brd, but its good to try it out yourself. Maybe you'll like it.

Side note: Any instrument, no matter how weak, could easily make brd a very powerful subjob. Im sure lots of people would buy that instrument

[Faranim]

I would highly HIGHLY discourage subbing BRD to anything, much less a Melee Job.

DRG has a hard enough time getting parties and dealing damage, don't gimp yourself even further by subbing something worthless.

[Fooma]

Better to sub SMN and AA every 3 minutes or 1 minute with a refresher

[Balodoth]

Don't start.

If you want to discuss DRG subs, please go to that forum to do so. I said in my first post that I wasn't asking to have my subjob choice criticized. You can be relieved to know I'm currently leveling WAR from 15 to 37. /BRD is more of a "just for fun" thing to do whenever I have the chance, i.e. farming, helping out LS members, etc. Besides, if I were in a 2-3 BLM party, would you really think I was there for damage? I'm probably there to help setup chains for bursting, in which case providing Ballad in the abscence of a BRD would help with downtime, and I'd still be able to Madrigal (remember, no BRD to do better in this scenario) to help the other melee and myself get TP for SC's. BRD's of all people should know their job is about making a difference through everyone else, not on doing major damage themselves.

Then again, that's just a brief rundown on why I want to try it out. If you disagree, there's a DRG forum down the hall. Otherwise, I think all my questions have been answered. Thank you.

As a sidenote, I find it odd getting subjob advice from a job that often subs WHM when they have no MP of their own. I mean, wouldn't subbing WAR be immensely useful for Defender in BCNM's when you Horde Lullaby? And BST or DRG are the other two highest CHR jobs, wouldn't that be useful? I'm not saying /WHM is bad by any means, and /RDM is great post-30 for speeding up songs. I'm just saying that sometimes people get the "ideal option" mixed up with "only option" and miss out on a lot of interesting possibilities. (That or you guys know how much Ballad rocks and don't want anyone else to have it. ;-)

[CarbonFibre]

Re: Don't start.

Originally posted by Balodoth
If you want to discuss DRG subs, please go to that forum to do so. I said in my first post that I wasn't asking to have my subjob choice criticized. You can be relieved to know I'm currently leveling WAR from 15 to 37. /BRD is more of a "just for fun" thing to do whenever I have the chance, i.e. farming, helping out LS members, etc. Besides, if I were in a 2-3 BLM party, would you really think I was there for damage? I'm probably there to help setup chains for bursting, in which case providing Ballad in the abscence of a BRD would help with downtime, and I'd still be able to Madrigal (remember, no BRD to do better in this scenario) to help the other melee and myself get TP for SC's. BRD's of all people should know their job is about making a difference through everyone else, not on doing major damage themselves.

Then again, that's just a brief rundown on why I want to try it out. If you disagree, there's a DRG forum down the hall. Otherwise, I think all my questions have been answered. Thank you.

As a sidenote, I find it odd getting subjob advice from a job that often subs WHM when they have no MP of their own. I mean, wouldn't subbing WAR be immensely useful for Defender in BCNM's when you Horde Lullaby? And BST or DRG are the other two highest CHR jobs, wouldn't that be useful? I'm not saying /WHM is bad by any means, and /RDM is great post-30 for speeding up songs. I'm just saying that sometimes people get the "ideal option" mixed up with "only option" and miss out on a lot of interesting possibilities. (That or you guys know how much Ballad rocks and don't want anyone else to have it. ;-)

I agree that a /BRD would be cool for certain situations, but the comment on BRD sub is kinda off. Even S-E assumed you're going to sub WHM or RDM when they put MP+ on some of the BRD gear.

[Keyura]

i think it'd be advantageous to sub brd if u want to try something different, if u got a brd melee buffing the guys, then mage buffing, and u gave ballad to mage in addition to what the brd gave them, it'd be great, should u not need to be a second voke, dragoon's sub is only for the WS thing anyway, so w/e works for u ^^

[UnnamedGalka]

i think it'd be advantageous to sub brd if u want to try something different, if u got a brd melee buffing the guys, then mage buffing, and u gave ballad to mage in addition to what the brd gave them, it'd be great, should u not need to be a second voke, dragoon's sub is only for the WS thing anyway, so w/e works for u ^^

Sorry to say, but your theory just doesn't pan out all too well. Switch to a melee job, sub BRD, and see how many invites you get.

[Vilurum]

Switch to a melee job, sub something "suitable", have top-notch equipment and a reputation for competence ... And see how many invites you get. And that already unfairly small number, is if you're "doing everything right". Sub something unusual and watch it drop even closer to zero than it already was.

Besides, in practical terms ... notwithstanding the stats and abilities you'd lose from a different sub, all that time spent buffing is gonna take a toll on your TP. That in turn will mean that unless you're super-fast at TP otherwise that you can burn 20 seconds or so on your melee buff and mage buff ... your fellow melees will always have to wait on your TP to skillchain.

/BRD can have its uses (... kinda), but I really don't see a standard (emphasis on standard) pickup exp party as one of them.

[Stunna]

Yeah, with /BRD all you get is like one song, and it sucks to say the least:dead:

Brd/whm is the best because you get a little MP boost and you can actually help heal while you enhance.

[Balodoth]

/BRD intrigues me

LOL. It's nice to see this thread taking on a life of its own. /BRD intrigues me because, like the main job, you get spells for free. I fully agree that time singing is not time spent killing/healing. It's obvious use is to trigger the effect as the puller gets back to camp, like most BRD's normally do. For Ballad or other mage songs, those would of course be done between fights.

One thing I like about subbing BRD to DRG is that the mages won't get pissed when you use Spirit Link. I can take an AoE, use Spirit Link to drop into Red, spam a threnody/requiem macro, and get a nice chunk of HP back. Heck, if there's a nice AoE, I can add a Paeon to the mix to make it at least a little easier on the mages to heal everyone, perhaps even triggering Heal Breath for another team member.

As a sidenote to CarbonFibre, of all the non-mage, melee jobs, wouldn't you expect DRG to be the one to get MP on their AF? As for BRD, yeah, they are essentially mages. I would just expect S-E to provide at least a limited MP base for the sub to build on. It's not like they need to provide a huge amount of spells for it. Look at SMN, what do they get?

I really like BRD--being one and partying with one. They are a very versatile, busy people. If S-E ever comes out with an instrument other jobs can equip, even if it had no song bonus and a 25% decrease to skill, BRD would become a very versatile, busy subjob. From what I understand though, the only remotely accepted sub of BRD is for RDM, and only past 50.

[Laehn]

Subbing brd is like subbing drg kinda. You dont get access to your job defining ability. You also know a lot more about subbing drg than probably anyone whos tried it does too since youre a full time drg. Same thing applies to brd. We know the benefits and the disadvantages to our own job when its subbed.

If you try it and like it then good. Nobody can stop you. Do whatever you think will work. No harm in trying a different sub. Just dont get your hopes up to high. You might be dissappointed. Its your own prerogative what sub you choose.