Newbie instrument question

[Vilurum]

Originally posted by lufia22
1.) Is it hard to camp mary's horn? I'm debating on plopping all my money down on it or not...I really hate camping NMs but if it's an easy drop then I might just take my THF/BST combo out there and hunt it. God knows Monster Signa is a really rare drop.

2.) I have a question about charisma and its effect on how long a song stays. Does it determine how long a songs stays by the CHR you have when you cast that song? Or, lets say I start out casting a song and then raise my CHR after the song is cast, will that effect how long the song I just played before raising my CHR will last? In other words, does CHR only take place as you play a song or is it always present?

3.) What are the standard melee songs? I just got Valor Minuet II and on easier enemies I tend to cast Valor Minuet I and II rather than the accuracy song because on easy enemies they already have decent accuracy. However, I'm wondering about harder enemies. Is the accuracy song a pretty standard song all the way up until 75 or does it become one of those songs you only use if your PT is missing? The reason I ask is because the song that makes my PT attack faster is just around the corner, and I'm debating on whether or not that should replace my accuracy song or not. So what are typically the standard melee songs?

1. Drop rate is about the same as drop rate on the signa (uncommon, definitely, but not ridiculous). Getting claim is another matter. While Hoo Mjuu the Torrent spawns in a very tiny area and claim is just a matter of who sees and attacks him first, Stray Mary has an enormous spawn area, and is best found with Wide Scan. Then you have to hope that nobody else (closer) finds her with Wide Scan, or nobody randomly stumbles across her, before you get to her. They each have their own difficulties in claiming.

2. CHR only matters at the moment the song lands (or perhaps doesn't land), which is around 80% casting time as you will notice. And it doesn't affect max duration at all. An unresisted debuff song will last just as long with +0 CHR or +80 CHR. It's just that with +80 CHR, you're a lot more likely to have it be unresisted ... and if it's resisted, it'll last a shorter time (and have a weaker effect), or perhaps not even land at all. CHR doesn't affect your song's potential, but it does affect your chances of getting that full potential. Get it?

3. It's ultimately more about whether the extra average damage per hit from a second Minuet, results in more or less damage than the extra damage from a hit you wouldn't have landed except from Madrigal. If your melees have very good accuracy (or at low levels DEX) equipment to the point where they can hit quite reliably, Madrigal may be unnecessary. Also keep in mind that doing more damage per hit is not going to affect TP (for skillchains) in the slightest, but hitting more reliably is going to matter.

But this is really quite rare, at least for exp purposes (where you're fighting something high enough level above you, to give good exp, anyway ... now if it's wimpier and doesn't give good exp, that's another matter). In fact, for a hefty portion of the 50's and low 60's, my standard melee songs were actually double Madrigals, because the melees had such a hard time hitting. Most of the rest of my bardic life has been good old Madrigal + Minuet.

I tried March in my 30's, but it's unfortunately a very weak haste effect even with the March+2 instrument. The second March is not significantly better either, unfortunately. March has its uses, but exp really isn't one of them. It's good for high level blink tanks, tanking dangerous things, since haste effects (including March) reduce spell recast (not ability recast, mind you), which is important when it comes to recasting utsusemi.

It's good for putting on that WHM who has to Raise III an entire alliance, to reduce the recast on Raise III. It's arguably good for parties for skilling up weapons, especially weapons with big delay (i.e. 2-handed weapons). Though generally in skillups I play madrigal (since you get no skillup chance if you miss) and ballad 2 (to keep people alive).

[lufia22]

How many of you macro out your songs, meaning you don't hear the music play or anything? I've heard some people say they do it because it annoys them and/or their parties but personally I have it to where I can hear my songs each time.

I'm just curious...is it typical of a BRD to macro out he songs (either by not putting a wait or something) or do you guys like hearing your songs?

[Vilurum]

I enjoy hearing my songs on occasion. I don't enjoy hearing them constantly (because it *is* after all the same little tune over and over and over). And I don't enjoy delaying my reaction speed by throwing in /waits just so that the animation works.

Yes, I could hit the next buff's macro during that second or two between when the previous buff has kicked in, and when I can actually start casting a new buff. But seeing the animation isn't worth that much bother for me. Especially since there's the risk of doing it too early and having a buff land with the wrong instrument.

(And if it is worth the bother for me, I could see the animation by doing so even without a /wait in the macro. I'd just have to hit the macro twice, with the first time in that second-or-two time window - first time changes equipment and gives me "unable to cast" message because I'm not ready to cast yet. Second time actually casts, and the equipment's already changed.)

[lufia22]

Especially since there's the risk of doing it too early and having a buff land with the wrong instrument.

I have macros set up like this:

/equip range "instrument"
/wait 1
/ma "Song" <me> (or <t>/<bt>)

I've never had it land with the wrong equipment. Anyways, I might try it your way...I've kinda gotten used to pressing it a second before I really should. You can hardly ever hear the music because of all the curing and stuff going on but I like to see my character play the instrument, which, if I take out the /wait 1, I don't see.

*shakes fist at SE*

[Pilate]

Switch up your macros and you'll be money.

My own go like this

/p {song name} >> {effect} >> <t>
/ma "song" <t>
/equip Range "instrument"

You can switch instruments mid-cast without interruption, and that split second can mean a world of difference.

Threnody is

/p {element} {threnody} >> <t> {Weakened} {element}
/ma "threnody" <t>
/equip Range "instrument"

Some people might argue that you don't need to announce to the party what you're casting, but I couldn't disagree more. Casters (and that includes bards) should always call out their casts, just like warriors need to call their Vokes. Spam be damned, because after playing the game long enough you can process the information quickly enough that it's no real bother. And it's important to know what everyone else is doing in order to plan your own strategy.

If you're going to be doing something that will generate a whole lot of hate (as a caster), then it really really helps to know the warrior's Provoke is going to be available soon.

Bard's really play an ancillary role more than anything else, but definitely the most important one, in my book. A Bard makes everyone else in the party fight at their maximum potential. You make gods of mortals. A threnody on the mob, an etude and a ballad on your BLM - attack bonus for the melees, followed by minuet, and then a dextrous etude for the thief and a prelude for the ranger - it takes a lot of running and singing, but it's what you do.

Last rule of thumb - if you're a Bard and you're not singing something, then you're (99 times out of 100) not doing something right.

Just keep those things in mind and you'll go far.

PS. Using a flute to cast Mage's Ballad comes in handy when you're XPing in Garlaige and quarters are cramped - I didn't read enough of the other replies to see whether anyone brought that up.

[lufia22]

True, the 1 second I could edit out of my macro might help every now and then, but like I said, I've kind of come accustom to it and press the macro 1 second before I normally would to account for it. I do, however, take the 1 second out of things that actually make a difference (i.e. sleep), but for a majority of the things I don't really see it necessary and, personally, I like to see myself playing. I might get bored of it and opt the other route later downt he road.

Anyways, I don't much see the use for announcing your spells as a BRD. Knowing when a BRD is casting something isn't going to help a ton. If everyone's in place and cooperating like they should, then there's typically no need. Maybe one on sleep to let everyone know that you're sleeping that enemy so they don't wake it up or to let them know that there's a link.

BTW, since the topic got bumped, I'll ask another question. I just bought myself a Mary's Horn (99k, which is pretty good) and the only PT I've had since then was a JP party in Eldieme Necropolis (sorry for any misspelling). However, when I tried to sleep the Gaze (I was testing out pulling as a BRD) over half the time they would wake up right away. Is this because they're resistant to light spells or what? I have +9 CHR (could be higher if I had signa but people here have told me it's virtually useless until higher levels) and, of course, the +1 lullaby from Mary's Horn. Are they just difficult enemies to sleep? I'm kind of dissappointed because I just spent 99k on something that didn't seem to help at all >_<.

[Vilurum]

Song-specific debuff instruments only improve your success rate, they don't guarantee it. If the enemy was *significantly* higher level than you, that would explain the resist rate.

Btw, at level 37, without Monster Signa, for a hume:

RSE legs: +1
RSE body: +1
Noble's Ribbon: +3
Bird Whistle: +3
Pearl Ring: +2
Pearl Ring: +2

Total +CHR from relatively cheap items (recall that RSE can be free): 12. Granted, it's not much more than 9, but at low amounts of +CHR (under 30 or so), each point is a lot more significant than it is at high amounts of +CHR.

At level 40 you can throw in Paper Knife (+2), Elegant Shield (+1), and Corsette +1 (+6) for another 9 CHR. After that you should be pretty much set until your 50's, aside from picking up a Shellbuster at 48. All without any big-ticket items.

[lufia22]

Well, I already got all that minus the ribbon and bird whistle, which I have a Silver Hairpin for and I have flower necklace that gives the same CHR but no +HP and goes for several thousand gil less...but I guess I should change the hairpin. If the party's good, I don't hardly ever use MP.

BTW, I was fighting gazers and we were XPing off them (so lullaby should obviously stick), so I dunno why lullaby wasn't landing.

Also, at level 40 electrum rings and hairpin become available. Should I just skip out on those and go with +CHR gear or should I have both?

[Vilurum]

Carry both. Use +MP by default, and if you have trouble landing debuffs, swap in +CHR. Or use +CHR by default, and if the debuffs are landing smoothly and you feel that you could use more MP, swap in +MP. Problem solved by having both and using judgment calls. Automatically swap in the +CHR for your Lullaby macro, regardless.

Flower Necklace vs. Bird Whistle is fine, you're missing out on 5 HP. In the interests of inventory space, I only keep Bird Whistle on my mule (because when the equipment you're interested in, costs hundreds of K, you realize that there's little difference between a 500 gil item and a 5000 gil item ... that difference is a lot more prominent if you're looking at items costing well under 100K however), because it's usable at a lower level. And it does give 5 HP, useless as it is.

If by Gazers you mean Azers, the bombs, note that bombs are arcana, and arcana are innately magic resistant. If it's magic-aggro, it's magic resistant too, as a general rule. Landing debuffs and nukes on them unresisted is thus more difficult than a non-magic resistant enemy of the same level. (Of course, I'd have to wonder why you'd exp on bombs at all, as any job other than BST. Self-Destruct *sucks*.)

Also note that you can successfully kill and exp on enemies which are, level-wise, significantly out of your league. Worms are the most obvious example, since they're so wimpy, but a number of jobs can solo those even when they're IT+. Even though an enemy's strategically wimpy, that level difference still comes into play when it comes to resistance.

[lufia22]

These weren't even giving us 200 xp without a chain, so they weren't out of our league.

And by Gazer I mean Hecteye. Lvls 41-43.

[Vilurum]

I evidently haven't spent enough quality time in Eldieme, didn't even realize there were hecteyes there.

Having said that, if I recall, hecteyes are something of a nuisance to land Lullaby on as well. It does stick reliably with enough +CHR, but they're more resistant than your average enemy. Certainly more resistant than all those undead you find there, then again Lullaby does work quite well on most undead.

[lufia22]

Yeah, I went and fought beetles last night and lullaby was sticking better (but I couldn't use Horde Lullaby if it didn't stick because of all the caveberrys!!!).

Anyways, here's something interesting that happened last night. It was one of the last fights we were going to fight that night so I 2hr. I increase the THF's attack by 100+ (valor I and II with 2hr) but it didn't really boost his SATA much. He said his record so far was 440 and he hit 425 with my ATK songs. So I thought maybe I should have just given him +10 DEX or something instead of the attack.

So we kill that one fast and still have my 2hr going so I decide to see how good my DEF songs help. So I give the PLD 100+ DEF and tell him to tell me how much damage he takes. ¬_¬ He said he was taking the same amount. What's up with that?

Is there some other stats or equation to damage or something that caused these results? Perhaps there's a cap or something?

I have some more questions but I can't think of them right now...

BTW, level 40, yay! ^^Y

[Vilurum]

Both attack and defense tend to give diminishing returns at very high numbers. I believe their max potential is limited by STR and VIT. So if truly massive +attack doesn't help much, try a single Soul Voice Minuet, plus a Soul Voice STR Etude. Same thing for Minne and VIT Etude.

Of course, this is assuming you're interested in setting new high or low damage numbers. The super-high attack will make your melees do near their cap more consistently than they did otherwise, even though it won't have much of an effect on max damage. The super-high defense will similarly put your tank more consistently near the low end of the scale of damage they receive.

[Laehn]

Its safe to assume that boosting any stat massively wont have real massive improvement. You usually have to increase a bunch of stats as well as armor, skill, and weapons to be able to notice a large difference. There are a bunch of variabls that go into raising damage or decreasing it. In order to keep the playing field fair, SE made it so you couldnt have an unfair advantage just because you have some insane stat boost.

Thats why a brd with a bunch of chr and skill items still wont land songs as easily as a brd several lvls higher wearing zero chr or skill items for example. Its hard to tell what variables all go into dealing dmg, defending attacks and casting spells.

Thats not to say the massive boosts brds give dont make a significant difference.

Dont take all this good advice in this thread as gospel either. Its fun to try different things when you have the chance and get a feel for the jobs potential and versatility.

[lufia22]

What are some BRD equipment highlights after level 50?

Also...which should I buy first, Earth or Light Staff? I'm thinking I should buy the earth staff because not only is it the most expensive and I want to get it out of the way but it seems like it would be used a ton more than the light staff would simply because I use elegy every single battle.

I just realized this shellbuster is a club and I thought it was a dagger and I couldn't find it! XD I'm level 50 now, are there any other weapons I didn't know about or should I go ahead and buyy a shellbuster?

PS: This was a long time ago but I realized why the Gazers weren't sleeping. I was pulling with Dia! What an idiot I am...I use elegy or banish now. Can't believe I was that stupid.