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**Nodachi** · 07-29-2004, 10:35 AM

Personally i'm loving my light staff. It just feels more practical for PT settings than signa. And the wind torque seems to be the best end game neck piece that i'm aware of. And with it being the price that it is on your server (not saying 400 k is easy to come by but it's 750 k right now for us) i think you should get it while it's at that price.

**UnnamedGalka** · 07-29-2004, 01:04 PM

Wind Torque is about 420K-ish on my server.

God I wish I was on your server...on mine, the Torque goes for almost 2 million.

**tnt118** · 07-29-2004, 03:49 PM

Last sales on Bismarck have hovered between 800k-1.2mil for the wind torque. I'm almost desparate for one, but I refuse to pay those prices when it can be gotten from BCNM. Basically it's not a super-hard item to get (esp. compared to its going value) but it takes a little bit of prerequisite work to get the items needed to reach the BC.

But more directly related to your question: which is more useful? I wish I could give you a good answer, but since most people don't have wind torques yet I don't think you'll be able to gather much in the way of solid information. If more people were willing to go to the tonberry BCNM, the price would probably fall way down.

So, anyone on Bismarck want to schedule some runs at this? I can offer myself (maybe a whm and blm also) who are fully equiped for a level 60 BCNM fight.

**Vilurum** · 07-29-2004, 05:24 PM

800K? 2 million? I guess that 350K I paid for mine on Quetzalcoatl wasn't so painful as I thought.

;;

**2.0** · 07-30-2004, 12:37 AM

It's not even close. Gotta go with one of the staffs. With the torque you see a difference in the might see a difference in the effectiveness of songs. With the staffs you will see a difference on your debuffs effectiveness. If you want the torque anyway fine but the light staff should take priority.

**Yoss** · 07-30-2004, 05:43 AM

I'd say light staff >>> earth staff > wind torque

The difference in landing lullaby/requiem with light staff equipped is pretty impressive. Plus the 10% cure increase on curagas and cures is a nice bonus. The earth staff helps with elegy resists, but it's not as noticable as the light staff in my opinion.

My wind torque still confuses me. There has to be some big formula that takes into account wind/singing skill, chr, mobs level, & mobs elemental resists to determine wether a debuff lands or not. So everytime I exp I try to find my "happy place" in balancing out +chr & +mp and still landing the songs.

Wind torque lets you get away with less +chr gear, but it varies so much depending on your level and what you're fighting. If you're not using elemental staves, the effect of the torque is a lot more noticable. On the other hard if you go all out with +chr gear, staves, & the torque your resist rate goes down to about zero.

I think you'd have to be insane to spend over 1 mill on it, and I don't even think it was worth the 600k I payed for it, the price is only jacked because of the rarity of it. I can't comment on HNM fights, but if you're buying it for normal exp parties for more than 300-400k, I'd look at it as more a status symbol than it is helpful.

**Layoneil** · 07-30-2004, 07:04 AM

it's priced at 300k-350k on my server but never on sale.

i'm still working on the Opo-opo Crown stuff, after that i'll probably pick up the Earth Staff and work the BCNMs for the Wind Torque.

**Rekiem** · 07-31-2004, 06:36 AM

One or the other doesn't really matter honestly. +7 Wind skill will help you alot when trying to land your songs while the Light staff will help you land lullaby and makes you Cure for a few points more. If I had to choise between one or the other, I would probably pick the Wind Torque. Simply because +7 Wind skill is like being two levels higher and that really make a massive difference while it also help land other songs like Threnody, Elegy and Requiem. It also slighty increase your buffs songs power.

**UnnamedGalka** · 07-31-2004, 08:32 AM

800K? 2 million? I guess that 350K I paid for mine on Quetzalcoatl wasn't so painful as I thought.

;;

Yeah...it's WAY, WAY overpriced on my server.

Pisses me the funk off. I wanted to have one before I hit 75...doesn't look like that's going to happen...

**AricTheMage** · 08-03-2004, 07:46 AM

Sold the Monster staff and bought a LIght Staff and a Earth Staff..
Went with a group of level 66-68 to Boysda Tree for EXP..

While fighting Darters..we got a add link from a Proce?(crawler) and I tried to sleep it with Foe Lullaby..got resisted..tried Horde Lullaby in a desparate attempt...got resisted

BLM cast Sleepga 2..bingo...slept...

Light staff didnt help me that time

Also my elegy got resisted alot..while equipping the earth staff...

Maybe the Wind Torque would have been better?

Maybe it was the area we were in at Boysda Tree..mostly 67-68 groups around...and me being only 65..those monsters might have been way over my level...

For CHR..i only have my 2 Hope Rings,Corsette, and Jesters Cape, and Noble Ribbon...and all else is AF...
I know the more CHR the better and +1's would be nice..but I thought that the Elemental Staves would have made a difference..other wise I would have kept my Monster Staff(+7? CHR).....

**tnt118** · 08-03-2004, 08:44 AM

Originally posted by AricTheMage
Sold the Monster staff and bought a LIght Staff and a Earth Staff..
Went with a group of level 66-68 to Boysda Tree for EXP..

While fighting Darters..we got a add link from a Proce?(crawler) and I tried to sleep it with Foe Lullaby..got resisted..tried Horde Lullaby in a desparate attempt...got resisted
BLM cast Sleepga 2..bingo...slept...

Light staff didnt help me that time
Also my elegy got resisted alot..while equipping the earth staff...

Maybe the Wind Torque would have been better?

Maybe it was the area we were in at Boysda Tree..mostly 67-68 groups around...and me being only 65..those monsters might have been way over my level...

For CHR..i only have my 2 Hope Rings,Corsette, and Jesters Cape, and Noble Ribbon...and all else is AF...
I know the more CHR the better and +1's would be nice..but I thought that the Elemental Staves would have made a difference..other wise I would have kept my Monster Staff(+7? CHR).....

Hmm. Much of my time at Boyhadra Tree was with groups that were 2 levels above me. I never had problems sleeping processionairies or crabs (I'm Taru, around +36 CHR, and use Light Staff).

On the other hand, I couldn't sleep a Darter to save my life, even when I was at the higher end of the PT level range. I think a couple of factors are coming into play at this point in the game. First, with the C skill in wind/string/singing, as we know you only get 2 levels of skill for each character level instead of 5. I think that's *really* starting to show and become problematic now.

I still have mixed feelings about CHR. Faranim's post talks about +CHR may be worthless, yet the one tidbit of information Square has given us is that CHR affects effectiveness of songs. If you used all +1's on equipment and the reguarler Justacourps instead of AF (which I do) that'd be what... +6-7 chr? That seems like it could be enough to make a difference.

(This was a theory from the BST board on the effectivness of light staff with charm

It's been theorized that mobs can resist for different reasons --

1) the mob is strong to the element (in this case light) that the skill is based off of
2) the mob had a natural resistance to the particular statis effect
3) the mob has too high CHR (or whatever the "save" value is) to overcome

I still wish there were some way to test this....

**Vilurum** · 08-03-2004, 10:14 AM

Well, by your description you have +3 wind skill, +21 CHR, and a Light Staff. +21 is in the ballpark of how much +CHR is effective, but it's kind of at the low end. Somewhere between +30 and +40 is generally preferable for exp enemies ... you can get over +70 but I can't see much purpose to that outside of HNMs.

Wind Torque would help with the skill (more skill = less +CHR needed to hit your "cap"), as would more +CHR items - not the signa, the Light Staff *is* preferable to it for sleeping things in my experience.

HQs of the Corsette and Jester's Cape would give you +4 more, upgrading your rings to the level 54 versions would give you +2 more (+4 more if you went with the very expensive HQ). If you can track down an Opo-Opo Crown, that (with food) is +4 more compared to Noble's Ribbon, and +50 MP and - not so importantly - +50 HP too.

If you're not using a Wind Torque, you should use a Star Necklace if you can get one (it's rare-ex), or at least a Bird Whistle, for +3 CHR in the neck slot. You can get +2 or +4 CHR from earring slots, depending on whether you go for the overpriced HQs of the Melody Earrings.

Body slot, Minstrel's Coat > Justaucorps > Choral Justaucorps, in my opinion. +3 wind skill (and, not so importantly, +3 string skill) will probably help you more than +2 CHR, but +2 CHR will almost certainly help you more than +3 string skill, even if the Justaucorps is ugly as sin. There's Errant to consider at 72 (which has very nice stats so that you'll have to decide between those and the +skill), but that's a ways off yet. Minstrel's Coat is a pain to get, though.

(Needless to say, some of these suggestions are more cost/effort-efficient than others, go for those first. Also note that these are all suggestions of +CHR equipment, you may want to replace some of them with +MP equipment if you have a good ratio of how much CHR you're losing to how much MP you're getting.)

Elemental staves do make a difference, but they're not godly catch-alls which will fix all your resistance issues if your +CHR isn't that high to begin with. What they're most helpful for is that they can boost your success rate past the point where +CHR stops helping.

And for the record, with +38 CHR (+37 for elegy, +40 for requiem, because of equipment changes) and +13 wind skill and a Light Staff and Earth Staff, and HQ instruments for debuffs, those darters are resistant little punks to me too.

Processionaires only resist the occasional elegy though, mostly because they're earth-based enemies. (Although one of them had the nerve to resist a Finale of all things. With my brand new Military Harp too, *and* a String Torque to go with it. I was Angered, with a capital A.)

**ryry** · 08-05-2004, 11:46 AM

quick question about the light staff...

is there some hidden effect w/ the light staff or is the reason it is so good for landing lullaby and requiem because it has the +DRK element?

If it is just for the drk element then wouldn't the mythic(?) harp be good for those songs. i think it has +15 drk element and the +1 version has +20 drk element.

Also, Joyeuse also has +14 Drk element which would be good for me since I also use Genbu's Shield.

**tnt118** · 08-05-2004, 12:22 PM

Originally posted by ryry
quick question about the light staff...

is there some hidden effect w/ the light staff or is the reason it is so good for landing lullaby and requiem because it has the +DRK element?

If it is just for the drk element then wouldn't the mythic(?) harp be good for those songs. i think it has +15 drk element and the +1 version has +20 drk element.

Also, Joyeuse also has +14 Drk element which would be good for me since I also use Genbu's Shield.

It's a hidden trait of all the elemental staves (HQ versions too, but no other equips that I'm aware of) that it boosts the effectivness of all skills/abilities that are the same element as the staff. I think BSTs first discovered this from charm (light based) and soon thereafter bard's picked up on it as well.

Technically it has nothing to do with the +drk element.

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