WHats better for BCNM 40 Mary or signa?

[Yukk]

If you can't afford both yet, whats better to have Mary's Horn or Monster Signa for BCNM 40 mandragoras in giddeous?

[Kweh]

Mary's.

You can pretty much sleep the mandy's with little CHR

[Xccoortri]

If you are strapped for cash don't get either of them. I've beaten it like 32 or 33 times without either, and I had no problems. The first few times I beat it my friend lent me his signa since I was new at it, and after I returned the signa to him I really didn't notice any difference... Mary's horn on the other hand will show you a much larger difference, since the monsters will sleep a lot longer, but it still is not necesarry, as I never have used it and still win everytime.

[Yukk]

Well i ask because a lot of groups ask for horn and signa, i was just wondering which one mattered more for BCNM.
Thanks.

[pierrot]

I did without Signa:
6x Giddeus 40: 1 Resist, which was weird, cause i had soulvoice on.
6x Sacrificial Chamber 60: 0 Resist.
6x Fei'Yin God Coin (Hornets): 0 Resit.

Fact is, you wont EVER nned Signa for any BCNM....Marys Horn I'd strongly recommend tho.

[Yukk]

Wow nice thanks!

You must be rich after all of that

[Nataka]

The only thing that scares me about the signa is the -4(I think, something around it) vit. For taru's this seems like it'd be a death sentence, especially to your invites for it. From my understanding, Taru bards typically arent invited to BCNM40's because of their vit and hp. So, I dunno. I havent done one yet, so I cant be for sure, this is just what i've been told.

Also, about the mary's horn, isnt the range on it to short for it? Again, I just heard this information, cant confirm it.



One more thing, i'm sorry for getting semi off topic, but with taru bards and BCNM40, would you suggest getting the Cuir +1 armor, and vit stuff? Or the cuir +1 and +chr? Or will neither help? Thanks.

[Shamaru]

I support Naaka concern about -vit would hurt taru's small hp pool. I borrow Signa to do BCNM once and IMO I prefer my AF dagger over it. Since I didn't notice any resist on both equipment.

About armors for taru, I would say go for +def definitely. Let say you have 500 hp, those mandies hit you around 200ish total per round (40ish ea) means you can survive 1-2 round at most. But with good +def armor, fishkabob, and Minne2 (don't let it fade!!) you would get damage about 100ish (20ish ea) which make you survive 3-4 round of attacks ,make more room for mistake.

Mary horn, on the other hand, could save your pt tons of mp for curing BRD tho

[Kite322]

About Mary's Horn being "Short Range"-

The range is smaller than that of a harp but no different than that of any other flutes. In my opinion, the horns sleep range is long enough that it isn't a problem as long as you know what you are doing.

[Vilurum]

Mary's Horn is sometimes touted as a bad idea for when you have early wakers. While this is true, consider that it only adds what, 5 or 10 seconds to any individual lullaby? So those early wakers really aren't much of a nuisance (unless you have a whole bunch every time, in which case I have to ask if you have any +CHR at all).

Mary's Horn more than makes up for that because those 5 or 10 or however many seconds, are for each Lullaby, and you use Lullaby many many many times per BCNM. So the benefit adds up more than the down side does.

It does, however, have a relatively steep price tag (it's the fourth most expensive item in my weapons-and-instruments category, with Monster Signa, Ebony Harp +1, and Crumhorn +1 pricier than it), so if you can't afford it, you can manage just fine with a Royal Spearman's Horn. (Or if you prefer to spend a lot more for some tiny HP and MP boosts, San d'Orian or Kingdom Horn.)

All horns have range issues, which is why you should do your first few lullabies - when they're spread out/moving, and when you need to establish hate more than keep them asleep - with a harp. Once you've gotten to your spot and the mandies are all around you in a semicircle, you can target the middle of the semicircle with a horn and still hit the ones on the outside edges.

[sudo]

I haven't tried it with brd on bcnm yet but as a bst and charm rates, after doing it with many people I have noticed zero added benefits.

For those brds out there that doesn't know the bst's job abilities, we have an ability called "Gague"

Gague lets us see how likely we are to charm a mob. Easy charms show up as "should" 95% chance of success

Harder to charm = "Might" 33% chance of success

Very very hard to charm = "will be difficult" try 6x and still can fail so like 15% chance of success

And the funny thing is that the message shows up on everyone's screen so we can all see what it gagues as. When we switch out to chr eq, and when we go into fighting eq, the gague will actually reflect this. A "might be able to charm" will become "should be able to charm" when we wear our chr eq.

So anyways, I was there with +18 chr, and the bst next to me in same gear but with signa so had +24 chr, both our gagues said "might be able to charm"

It made no difference that they had signa.

Another funny side story, we had a brd with us once and she did 2hr + chr song and we all had +10 chr on top of what we had normally. I go and gague with +28 chr, and it still says "might be able to charm" I do believe that you can cap out on chr on these fights and that no amount of charm can put them into the super no resist category.

I might try and do this again subbing brd and having another brd go 2hr + chr song while eating a tonomi riceball +5 chr and using a signa with HQ +3 chr rings someday to see if gague can possibly change. (but highly unlikely this will ever happen as those rings are freaking 150k+ and never for sale ><)

[Reaperx90]

Do note: A group of my friends were in the mood to chance death, so I removed the majority of my CHR equipment, giving me a total of +4 CHR.

Long story short, the mandragoras were ALL over the place. Half of them got partial resists EVERY single sleep round, and the party suffered a painfully funny death.

However this is not a big concern...+15 CHR is not hard to obtain, and it is enough to get the job done without sacrificing any of your heavy defense equipment slots.

And to be on topic, Mary's Horn is useful enough if you already have it, but I would strongly suggest you DON'T buy it for the sole purpose of BCNM'ing. I used Ryl. Spr. Horn and my mages had plenty of juice left over to keep me alive, even after doing a battlefield raise (Flood beat the odds and broke our WAR/NIN's Utsusemi right after all of his water defense had worn off)

Neither of them were Tarutaru either, and one was even a RDM/WHM. Oh, and the same thing goes for Signa...I think only Tarutaru will really suffer from the -vit, and that extra CHR just won't benefit you at all unless you have some godly defense gear that you want to replace your normal CHR gear with.