RDM/BRD post-update

[Icemage]

I spent some time the lsat two days levelling my bard, and while I was running BRD/WHM, I decided to try /RDM for the slightly faster singing rate just to see how well it would work last night.

O.O

What I noticed was that since the last update, the RDM trait Fast Cast has been improved. Recast timers for all spells/songs/ninjitsu are now reduced by Fast Cast. Etudes, which normally take 25 seconds before they refresh, took 21 seconds. I was seeing similar improvement in all my songs.

Yes. All of them.

Threnody.
Magic Finale.
Lullaby.

All became much faster to recast, as well as being faster to take effect when singing.

What I lost was Divine Seal and Curaga, but with a WHM in the party that wasn't much of a loss.

Has anyone else tried this combination since the latest update?


Icemage

[Stolin]

Well RDM is the best subjob to have for bard if you aren't planning on using status curing spells. Fast cast has always been the selling point for this.

If you are fighting monsters that poison,silence,virus or whatever then you will need the WHM subjob.

I personally just stick with WHM subjob only because i am too lazy to level up RDM no other reason.

[AurorABLaZe]

Fast Cast wasn't the big deal with RDM sub. It was Phalanx, Dispel, etc, etc. Fast Cast is nice, but just icing on the cake.

A BRD can already solo reasonably well. With Phalanx they can do much much better(RDM sub is waaayyyy better than WHM sub for solo).

But with WHM sub you lose status cure and Curaga spells, which are actually very useful to party format. For partying, I would sub WHM, for solo, RDM.

[Stolin]

i was wondering how well does Dispel work as a subjob to a class that has no dark magic skills? Does it get resisted a lot?

[Kite322]

I don't understand dispel as a selling point for RDM sub... umm, Finale? :confused:

[sudo]

finale refresh time is too slow. the mob could cast another self buff before you can recast your finale thus a rdm is needed. VERY useful for those damn crabs and their self armor or beetles and rhino guard.

I see the potential for rdm and I will go lv it sometime down the road but kind of busy right now and you couldn't pay me gil enough to go through valkrum right now (eventhough I'm lving smn ther for lv 20 avatar quests [ok I'm an idiot])

but either way. you can sub rdm and get dispell or you sub whm and get erase.

You either have the power to get rid of multiple mob self buffs, or take care of party debuffs. I personally think that finale is good enough for 80% of the time and erase helps a lot more than a 2nd debuff.

most crabs will 1) bubble shower - low str
and then 2) thorw up metallic skin - high defence

with rdm, you can certainly keep the self defence thing down but how you going to help the -str part? Whm erase > a 2nd dispell. but that's just my opinion. Although the fast cast is nice though...

[Gak912]

Originally posted by AurorABLaZe
A BRD can already solo reasonably well. With Phalanx they can do much much better(RDM sub is waaayyyy better than WHM sub for solo).

You're overestimating Phalanx's power quite a bit. Here is the formula for calculating the damage Phalanx absorbs. A RDM at level 33 has 97 skill in enhancing, and at level 37 they have 109 skill. You're looking at anywhere from 3 to 5 points of damage less, which is a very small amount and not (often) worth the loss of -Na spells, Divine Seal, Bar spells, and Teleport spells.

Sure, if your party is lacking a RDM main or a /RDM, then BRD/RDM might be ok if you're fighting monsters that constantly use buff moves. However, this is a hit-or-miss situation, since many monsters at 64+ (the level for erase/dispel from sub) will use abilities that can harm your teammates. Processionaires for example use Coccoon, but they also cause Slow and Poison. They rarely did coccoon before my Finale was refreshed, so instead I used my WHM sub to cure poison and slow and help the mages save MP.

Steelshells in the late 60's, like sudo said, will use abilities that will raise their defense and lower your STR. Keep in mind that Metallic Skin (stoneskin) cannot be finale'd or dispel'd. Scissor Guard (defense raise) does require finale/dispel however, but crabs will also use Bubble Shower to lower STR. Having two spells to debuff the mob was not efficient compared to having one spell for debuffing and one for erasing the lowered STR effect when I was leveling off of crabs.

These are just a couple examples of what can happen with RDM sub versus WHM sub. Overall, RDM sub isn't bad, but WHM offers so many useful spells that it is useful in many situations, not just when you need to get rid of two of the mob's status effects.

[AurorABLaZe]

Ah, I didn't know much about Phalanx besides it's base use, so assumed it could be useful for sub. Oh well. XD

But, if you are fighting crabs or crawlers, Dispel is definitely a huge deal. If I have another RDM or my BLM has /RDM, then I wouldn't bother with having RDM sub myself. But if no one has RDM main or sub in PT, at level 66+, Dispel can be very useful against Steelshells and Processionaires. It isn't rare, it is actually happen in about 85% of my fight that they spam Cocoon or Scissor Guard. So I Finale one, then they cast it again, and I am left hanging because of my Finale timer. Real annoying.

Plus, crabs have both protect effect and shell effect, so if you see him do Scissor Guard and use Finale, you might instead erase Shell(which can be quite devastating if you have a BLM or RDM in PT, but not as important to be rid of as Protect, IMO. With Dispel in arsenal, you can get rid of both).

But, if you're fighting stuff like Tormentors or Doom Mages, etc, definitely WHM sub. Tormentors are rather low maintenance, they have the odd Plaguebreath, or Evasion up(which is very rare, in my experience, and they don't spam em), very easy to handle.

Skeletons, like Doom Mage, have pretty harsh AoE and they have Blindga. So you have to actually spam Blindna sometimes(if you fight these and you are using RDM sub...shame on you. WHM really can use the help getting rid of Blind), as well as Curaga or Curaga 2(which is, trust me, a huge lifesaver to WHM MP. WHM loves when BRD does Curaga 2. =X And I love using it, and oddly enough, only Doom Mages have actually produced an AoE bad enough to use Curaga 2 frequently).
Doom Mages also have Ice Spikes, but not spam, so easily rid of.

Many times I wish I had RDM to sub. But WHM sub is much more versatile.

Erase is nice too. =)

[Peltar]

Success of Dispel is based on enfeebling magic. Seeing how you'd only get the skill level of your RDM sub, I assume that most of the time your Dispel would get resisted. Has someone actually done this successfully? My RDM is high enough but I need a few levels on the BRD to try it out...