Taru is best race for BRD

[Rekiem]

Originally posted by Aniga


AGI is good for defensive measures, which is what a bard is, a defensive supportive class. Your offense is meaningless.

AGI won't do you any good, its all about the Evasion skill and you can't evade spells and NM/HNM special attack unless they are many levels lower than you. You probably meant VIT and MND for defensive measure and I have like 20 more pts than you in those area :spin:

You could easily switch your equipment around to match my MP, but then your CHR is going to be far lower than mine is. Or, I could easily swap my equipment around and still have 100 more MP than you with equal CHR. You can't win, and later on in life when you're going to be depended on by an alliance to throw in a few heals and have enough CHR to land debuffs on monsters you won't be able to match a Tarutaru. Your STR is meaningless, then and now.

I think the most you can acheive with equip will give you something like +30 MP over Elvaan Yet I still get to keep my 300 HP more than you


300HP + 16 STR > 60 MP, even for a support job. Taru don't make the best Bard in any situation, period.

[Niland]

ok

firstly please stop saying that tarutaru have the best CHR. Elvaan, hume and tartrau have exactly the same from lvls 1-75 i dunno if you stated that somewhere but it bugs me when you come in with 'tartaru has the best CHR and MP' lol ><

secondly, tarutaru can't wear hume rse. this means that for a significant amount of lvls 1-75 a hume bard has more MP more HP and more CHR so please explain how a taru bard is even close to that?

lastly the difference between hume and taru at 70+ is 55ishMP roughly.

How long does 55MP take to regen at 6-7MP per tick?

How long do i spend playing ballad?

yes thats right in the time it takes me to actually play 2 ballads i've regened this 'tarutaru advatage' since you cant do anything else for the 20 or so seconds you play ballads I and II how are you going to use that advantage?

perhaps now you can understand why i have been so dismissive of this extra MP. In exp PT it just wont make any difference, it won't let you exp faster or better or in fact anything more than a hume bard...the difference in MP is there (assuming all things being equal equpment wise..) but it won't make any significant difference.

if your PT is good you'll hit 5k per hour and chain 5 with a hume or elvaan or tarutaru and have little or no downtime, the extra MP of a taru wont allow you to go outside this envelope, since you dont need to heal anymore than you can with 200ish~ MP

vis-a-vis being a tartaru won't allow you to exp better: therefore tarutaru cannot be the best bard.



i'd also like to make a small point. In the equipment thread you listed yourself as a lvl 75 brd using a bird whistle and noble ribbon. This means that me exping at 72-75 (since i took the trouble to complete a few more quests) have more MP and more CHR then you did (or still do, i don't know)

its not a point i was keen on making, but you seem to place great emphasis on the equipment aspect...and it seems hypocritical that you should be preaching something which you did not practice.

sure you could have done the quests but you didn't...

tarutaru make fine bards, hume make fine bards and elvaan make fine bards. end of story.

[SweetStupp]

Elvaan Bard

lvl40 bard/rdm, leveled bst to 20 so i can try taming as sub XD

I've always been in the melee since i've played bard, and i've enjoyed it. For example some lower level PTs where whm wasn't available, 5 melees and I chained IT gobs in valkurm.

I really like having a complex job, with lots to do, which is why at first i subbed my bard with rdm. I debuffed, healed, fought, and sang my songs (and sometimes buffed). I don't think taru is necessarily better than elvaan because i do get time to attack as opposed to heal (more often?), and healing between attacks doesn't noticeably decrease the time between my spells. (point being that MP isn't the only other factor of a bard than CHR).

Using a dagger, I think I do decent damage "poking" at the enemy, and its so much fun adding my weapon skill at the end of an existing skillchain. I've done about 0-15 damage with a dagger since level 1, and at times about 15 on an IT. Keep in mind it is a dagger, very fast (2-3 hits for each large weapon's hit), and I still do have the choice of a few other weapons, including sword. And so far, I've only cast Mage's Ballad on the mages, so I usually have one of the melee songs on, preferably Madrigal.

As bard, I never ever want to sit, but I do run out of mana. Usually I want to spend all my mana so that I can run in a fight.
You talk of downtime, i'm not sure past my level, but recently, from levels 30-40 (at the more popular level places - I went to Yuhtunga, Garliage Citadel, Crawler's Nest, one of the tunnels), the downtime is due to pulling monsters, not to resting for mp.

You also say that the bard shouldn't be in the battle taking damage, but the damage due to an AoE attack isn't that bad. Nothing a paeon or my own heal between battles can't fix.
Now this is irrelevent, but a story I'd like to share. One member fell asleep at the computer so we decided to try without her. I was trick anchor for the thief sometimes and I did take damage. Sometimes I held too much hate. Our summoner tried using Ramah as the trick anchor. Maybe it was the sneak attack alone, maybe it was sneak and trick attack, but there was definitely increased damage, and to my recollection, the monster didn't change targets from the tank to the thief. No proof but interesting ^^.

I guess all this is to say I haven't been screaming for more MP, and I feel bard can get in there and mix it up. Now some *real* proof would be to compare the xp gained between almost comparable PTs, where the bard is a differenct race. I know when you say "better" or "best" you mean effectiveness, but part of my "better" running up to play melee is a lot of fun. And I think those people above should not admite Taru is a better race for BRD. And I agree that in general the arguement about player skill should not be used, but the playing style arguement should be used if you want to talk about best bard race for a particular person. "My best bard best race is ____ because I _____."

Its been said that a taru bard (in this thread even) doesn't have any difficulty with HP, but I've seen a taru blm die in two hits to an IT we were fighting, from full HP. I don't know how much this applies to a taru bard, take it as you want to.:spin:

[Aniga]

Originally posted by Niland
ok

firstly please stop saying that tarutaru have the best CHR. Elvaan, hume and tartrau have exactly the same from lvls 1-75 i dunno if you stated that somewhere but it bugs me when you come in with 'tartaru has the best CHR and MP' lol ><

Please tell me where I said that >.> I never once said that a Taru has the best CHR, I simply said that no race can be better than a Taru at those two primary stats at the same time.

secondly, tarutaru can't wear hume rse. this means that for a significant amount of lvls 1-75 a hume bard has more MP more HP and more CHR so please explain how a taru bard is even close to that?

25 levels, generally, where your RSE offers you 20 more MP and 2 more CHR over our RSE. I conceed that RSE is unbalanced in this matter But it has no effect on the end game. Tarus probably have 20 more MP naturally by this point, so you have a 2 CHR advantage for 25 levels, technically. Rejoyice

lastly the difference between hume and taru at 70+ is 55ishMP roughly.

How long does 55MP take to regen at 6-7MP per tick?

How long do i spend playing ballad?

yes thats right in the time it takes me to actually play 2 ballads i've regened this 'tarutaru advatage' since you cant do anything else for the 20 or so seconds you play ballads I and II how are you going to use that advantage?

perhaps now you can understand why i have been so dismissive of this extra MP. In exp PT it just wont make any difference, it won't let you exp faster or better or in fact anything more than a hume bard...the difference in MP is there (assuming all things being equal equpment wise..) but it won't make any significant difference.

6 x 6 three-second ticks = 33 MP < 55-60 MP difference

if your PT is good you'll hit 5k per hour and chain 5 with a hume or elvaan or tarutaru and have little or no downtime, the extra MP of a taru wont allow you to go outside this envelope, since you dont need to heal anymore than you can with 200ish~ MP

vis-a-vis being a tartaru won't allow you to exp better: therefore tarutaru cannot be the best bard.

Certainly you can heal more with more than 200 MP. Tarutaru can support better, thusly. Following this conclusion, a bard can move more smoothly (Slightly, you seem to be taking it as if I'm saying a Taru is leaps and aheads better than any other race). Tarutaru can be the 'best' bard, therefore. However, you seem to be overreacting to the slight advantage Tarus have.

i'd also like to make a small point. In the equipment thread you listed yourself as a lvl 75 brd using a bird whistle and noble ribbon. This means that me exping at 72-75 (since i took the trouble to complete a few more quests) have more MP and more CHR then you did (or still do, i don't know)

its not a point i was keen on making, but you seem to place great emphasis on the equipment aspect...and it seems hypocritical that you should be preaching something which you did not practice.

sure you could have done the quests but you didn't...

Noble Ribbon? Jester Headband, darnit!

I want an Opo-Opo Crown, but my LS has kept me too busy these last couple days. Should have one by Tuesday, then yay Pamamas.

I'll be getting a Wind Torque soon as well, which will replace the Bird Whistle.

Calling me a hypocrite because I don't have the 'best' equipment in two slots doesn't make too much sense. Either way, it has nothing to do with our lovely hypothetical conversation about bards and races.

Plus the Opo crown quest takes less than a day to complete, 72-75 takes more like a week.

tarutaru make fine bards, hume make fine bards and elvaan make fine bards. end of story.

I agree entirely, bard is one of the least stat dependant jobs and any race can be a fine bard. That doesn't take away from my previous comments, of course

[Aniga]

Originally posted by Cammus
Brd is a special job, any race can do it well.

However since we seek the BEST even if its by a ridiculous little margin we will want consider these points.

As for Exp party is concerned :

Tarutaru is best choice , as it was pointed out MP and CHR are the only stats that matters.

As for BCNM :

Tarutaru isnt the best choice anymore, since a third stat will kick in ... HP. You can say you can get the job done all you want, you would still benefit from extra HP here, more than you will benefit from the extra MP.

As for HNM :

Depends on which one you are fighting but Tarutaru will be better in most of them (if not all). As she pointed out if you get hit here you will die even if you are a Galka.

Anyway the difference is minimal! No one will refuse a Galka BRD for a exp party or a HNM hunt. but they will refuse a tarutaru BRD for BCNM (although here skill and experience and equipment counts more than the race).

Agreed on XP, agreed on HNM, and I suppose I have to agree on BCNM, since slight advantages are advantages none the less like I have been pushing this entire thread.

Really, your race doesn't matter all that much, play what you want. I'm only demonstrating the ability to have the highest scores in the MP and CHR simotaniously, which I believe gives the Taru an advantage in most situations.

[Aniga]

Originally posted by Rekiem
AGI won't do you any good, its all about the Evasion skill and you can't evade spells and NM/HNM special attack unless they are many levels lower than you. You probably meant VIT and MND for defensive measure and I have like 20 more pts than you in those area :spin:

AGI is about as useful as VIT and MND and STR. Remember, MP and CHR are the only really important stats :p

I think the most you can acheive with equip will give you something like +30 MP over Elvaan Yet I still get to keep my 300 HP more than you


300HP + 16 STR > 60 MP, even for a support job. Taru don't make the best Bard in any situation, period.

If you're talking about your RSE, then you're down CHR from your hands and legs and your MP is matched from Errant footwear.

HP and STR don't matter. Taru can definately make the best bard in situations, and if you would like to keep denying that you're perfectly welcome to. We're apparently not getting anywhere at this rate anyway.

[Jinroh]

AGI is about as useful as VIT and MND and STR. Remember, MP and CHR are the only really important stats

So then what about taru's disadvantages at HP, str, vit, mnd. Given that 6 x 6= 36 regained mp an elvaan or hume bard can make up for this while the taru has a loss of over 200 hp. if "any little advantage is an advantage" is taken into account, then a hume bard or elvaan are "best".

HP and STR don't matter.

I think hp matters, how can it not? A taru with 200 less hp has to use their extra mp to cure themselves when they are getting walloped, or if the whm uses up a cure on the taru bard, then one way or another the bard will use his mp to cure the tank or whoever, so that liitle bit of mp "advantage" is fairly evened out. I know the example is just one situation of many, but there are so many variables in every battle, that especially for a class like bard, it is impossible to determine what race is the best because of more mp or more hp or whatever.

Taru can definately make the best bard in situations, and if you would like to keep denying that you're perfectly welcome to. We're apparently not getting anywhere at this rate anyway

so taru "can" be best in certain situations or are they the "best" race for bard?
Taru don't make best bard, there is no best race for a bard, all bards are god.

[Aniga]

Originally posted by Jinroh

So then what about taru's disadvantages at HP, str, vit, mnd. Given that 6 x 6= 36 regained mp an elvaan or hume bard can make up for this while the taru has a loss of over 200 hp. if "any little advantage is an advantage" is taken into account, then a hume bard or elvaan are "best".

Any little advantage is an advantage, but an advantage in a stat you don't use (Say, INT or STR) isn't important, while a stat you do use (CHR or MP) is an advantage.

When I referred to HP when I said "any little advantage is an advantage", that was strictly only meant for BCNMs, specically BCNM40 (You don't get whalloped during 60 as much, or 70 at all).

I think hp matters, how can it not? A taru with 200 less hp has to use their extra mp to cure themselves when they are getting walloped, or if the whm uses up a cure on the taru bard, then one way or another the bard will use his mp to cure the tank or whoever, so that liitle bit of mp "advantage" is fairly evened out. I know the example is just one situation of many, but there are so many variables in every battle, that especially for a class like bard, it is impossible to determine what race is the best because of more mp or more hp or whatever.

HP doesn't matter because as a bard, short of AEs you shouldn't be getting hit. I've been over this and I'm not going to go over it again.

so taru "can" be best in certain situations or are they the "best" race for bard?
Taru don't make best bard, there is no best race for a bard, all bards are god.

Oy vey. Four pages and you all have broken my patience.

Fine, I give up, anyone coming across this thread will know my position, they can take it as they will. More Elvaan and Hume bards running around is good for me anyway :angel:

All races are fine as bard in some roles, I never denied that. I think the higher MP is more of an advantage than any other stat. If you want to whack monsters during XP, go for it. If you like having some extra HP, more power to you. We'll just have to respectfully disagree on what a bard's purpose is and how best to fulfill it.

Last peep you'll hear out of me on this subject until the next thread about it, I'm tired

[Gunslinger]

umm,hey evrybody im new to this so bare with me, how does a bard get agrro'd?

just to know how to prevent doing something stupid in the future

[SweetStupp]

you keep saying MP and CHR are the only stats that matter. stop.

[Bamce Sylph]

i get agro if i curaga before my mage songs, or curaga, then seal+curaga, but its easily peeled off me, (lvl 57)

[obsidian]

Stats wise, Taru is easily the best Bard. I'm Mithra and even I can aknowledge that. However, it's pretty easy to make that up in EQ and since Bards are the rarist of pretty much any job (at least on Asura), not getting parties because of race is hardly an issue. In the end, the stats difference will mean next to nothing compared to EQ and skill.

[Valmaton]

Originally posted by Aniga A bard can tank better than a Paladin with the right equipment and skill too, etcetra.

I get what you're trying to say but, that's too fucking funny.

Oh, and this thread is trite, overdone and volatile to say the least; it's just another "my penis is bigger than yours" type of debate.


From a general standpoint, if you want to say when one character-type is better than the next, then we can go play Marvel VS Capcom. We can endlessly argue about Sakura being better than Magneto or some other more important issues that are less superfluous as this topic (or more, considering we're all hyped up over a damn video game bard race thing).

Now if you'll excuse me, my 10 year-old brother insists that green is better than blue.

[Teffie]

Originally posted by Valmaton

We can endlessly argue about Sakura being better than Magneto

Magneto is so cheap -_-
Everyone uses him cause of his stupid Infinite Combo. You go to all the MvC2 Tourneys, everyone uses Magneto/Storm/Sentinel Combo -_-
SO LAME!!! WHERES THE ORIGINALITY!!!!



w

[Valmaton]

Originally posted by Teffie


Magneto is so cheap -_-
Everyone uses him cause of his stupid Infinite Combo. You go to all the MvC2 Tourneys, everyone uses Magneto/Storm/Sentinel Combo -_-
SO LAME!!! WHERES THE ORIGINALITY!!!!



w

Sakura/Storm/Cable

:p