Bard as a Sub-Job

[falloutboy14]

Hello, I'm sorta switching betwen red mage and bard at the moment. While Brd/Rdm is a more common combination, I rarely see brd as a sub-job. I tried it in Valkrum last night, and essentially just sang Paeon whenever it wore, and I think that it went rather well. I was the only healer, and the constant regen seemed to make a difference.

My question is, is this vaible on the long term? Once I get rdm to 50, I could have refresh as well as Ballad active which could be quite potent. I know I'll only get one song, with a shorter range, but how much will the effect be hampered, will the songs be weaker/shorter due to bard being a sub-job, beside my lower chr?

[Aniga]

Nope, not variable long term. Having a group 3 HP Regen at level 50 isn't going to do anything for you, generally. Your abilities as a RDM itself will be weakened as you have lower INT and MP, seeing as how the BRD grants low INT and no MP. Your debuff songs will not be able to land, especially since you're restricted to singing only. Your effects will be shorter as well.

I know the idea of having that 1 extra tick of MP from ballad is a little tempting, but pass it up. If you ever group with a bard in the future, your subjob is practically useless and you're restricted to a low MP Refresh bot at this point, since you can't nuke or status cure due to your sub choice. And since I assume you're an Elvaan, you're going to want a mage sub as you'll need all the MP your race can get :x

[EFigaro]

http://ffxi.cogn.net/forums/showthre...ight=Rdm%2FBrd

This should answer a lot of your questions about going Rdm/Brd. Just remember, it's not really viable until level 50 rdm, and requires everyone knowing what they're doing.

[DevineLight]

how bad is it to sub for whm? i know that bard is a terrible sub in general, but it doest seem it would be too bad as sub for whm. at lvl 50 u get minuet, paeon, and mages ballad. what if ur group isnt lucky to get a rdm? atleast u could have that slight mp regen to lessen downtime, right? well it was just a thought. if this was a totaly stupid idea feel free to flame me -.-

[Bamce Sylph]

at level 50 the only thing u reasonably sub bard for is ballad, and u can get the ballad effect by subbing summoner and not have to waste time signing

[Peltar]

Keep in mind that each song takes 8 seconds to sing, so even though you could sing e.g. Madrigal on the melees and Ballad on the mages with a bard sub, it wouldn't be practical for you as the whm to do so - 16 sec lost that you could use to cure/enfeeble/heal MP. If you really want MP regen so badly I'd have to agree that SMN would be the better choice, you don't have to spend time on singing and you get a ton of extra MP whereas a bard sub gives you no useful stats as a whm.

[Bishop]

Even at 50, the only useable song as a brd sub is ballad. Everything such as minuet would last shorter, take longer to sing, and is weaker due to having brd as a sub. You might as well just sub smn for auto refresh by then.

[Rekiem]

Bard as a sub for RDM is really good if you don't have a Bard in your PT already. You can give Ballad I and Madrigal to your PT and its going to speed up fight and provide some small MP regen to you mage. Before level 50 you don't have Ballad so its not that good, but you can still give Madrigal so its nice.

Some people will say that you lose MP by subbing Bard over BLM but you have to remember that you have Ballad on you which negate the lost of MP and RDM have convert and refresh, they hardly ever have any problem with their MP. The only thing you lose is Escape, Warp, Aspir, and Sleepga. A bunch of things that can be used by the other mage in you PT, usually the BLM or the WHM so the spell you use are irrevelent.

The only downside by having Bard subbed is that your sub become totally useless if you have a BRD in your party.

[Cymmina]

Originally posted by Rekiem
Some people will say that you lose MP by subbing Bard over BLM but you have to remember that you have Ballad on you which negate the lost of MP and RDM have convert and refresh, they hardly ever have any problem with their MP. The only thing you lose is Escape, Warp, Aspir, and Sleepga. A bunch of things that can be used by the other mage in you PT, usually the BLM or the WHM so the spell you use are irrevelent.

WRONG. You also lose elemental seal (15 blm -- helpful for landing silence) and conserve mp (20 blm). Having a blm sub will give you 3-4 mp per subjob level, which gives you 75-100 mp as a hume by the time you are lvl 50 whm/blm. In addition to losing over 75 additional mp and useful spells like tractor, drain, aspir, escape, warp, sleep/sleepga, shock/ice spikes and useful abilities like elemental seal, conserve mp, and (*laugh*) magic attack up, you only get ballad I and (*laugh*) resist silence I & II. Let's not forget the additional mind you are losing out on, since brd has pretty crappy mind.

If what you really, really want is ballad I, go with smn as a sub. You'll at least get auto refresh, mp boost I & II, and get plenty of additional mind (better than what a blm sub has to offer, anyway).

[Kite322]

Originally posted by Cymmina


WRONG. You also lose elemental seal (15 blm -- helpful for landing silence) and conserve mp (20 blm). Having a blm sub will give you 3-4 mp per subjob level, which gives you 75-100 mp as a hume by the time you are lvl 50 whm/blm. In addition to losing over 75 additional mp and useful spells like tractor, drain, aspir, escape, warp, sleep/sleepga, shock/ice spikes and useful abilities like elemental seal, conserve mp, and (*laugh*) magic attack up, you only get ballad I and (*laugh*) resist silence I & II. Let's not forget the additional mind you are losing out on, since brd has pretty crappy mind.

If what you really, really want is ballad I, go with smn as a sub. You'll at least get auto refresh, mp boost I & II, and get plenty of additional mind (better than what a blm sub has to offer, anyway).

Elemental Seal won't do much for you outside of boss-type or HNM-type battles, really. Since the regen time on it is 10 minutes, it's not something you can just use whenever you need to silence a monster. Also, the effect of Ballad will help all of the support in your party, not just yourself as a SMN sub would. You also neglected to address the point that you can also sing Madrigal on your PT, which is quite useful.

I'm not condoning Bard as a support job, and I don't personally recommend it, I'm just pointing out the facts.

[Layoneil]

Ballad + Madrigal from a subjob takes 16 seconds of the time away from your main job.

also Group Buffs (not Paeon or Ballad) is determined by Instrument bonus (don't have), Singing Ability (half because of sub) + Wind/String Ability (don't have because you can't use instrument).

so all in all you take out 8 seconds from your main job to give your melee Madrigal that is less than 1/4 that of a real BRD.

fact is sub BRD Madrigal, Minuet or any other song that's not Paeon and Ballad is gimped beyond belief.

[cccpthrillhouse]

Under certain conditions, Bard can make an excellent sub for Whm at high levels. This post from the WHM board states it very well:
http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/sho...threadid=37999