the only needed Jobs in FFXI are WHM, PLD, BLM and SAM???

[TheGrandMom]

Re: the only needed Jobs in FFXI are WHM, PLD, BLM and SAM???

Anti-level-correction attachments and NPC chasing capabilities would like to say hi. Puppetmaster fills the niche for endgame kiting DD quite well - or so I heard.

Well different servers could be the issue here because I've done most of FFXI's endgame activities and I've never seen a Pup utilized or even wanted for them. Not saying they don't have the ability to be useful, but I would love to see it.

[Icemage]

Re: the only needed Jobs in FFXI are WHM, PLD, BLM and SAM???

Anti-level-correction attachments and NPC chasing capabilities would like to say hi. Puppetmaster fills the niche for endgame kiting DD quite well - or so I heard.

Mmm...no.

Not to say that Puppetmasters are horrible at that sort of thing, but frankly you could just get a Summoner to do that for you if you just want someone to kite stuff around with a pet. Or were you suggesting that Puppetmasters should be blood kiting enemies (please, please tell me you're not suggesting that)?

As for anti-level-correction attachments, as far as I'm aware they don't do squat against the enemies in most endgame events.

In either case, these aren't the sorts of things that win you fights / make you less likely to lose.

In an XP party, Puppetmasters are perfectly acceptable and can shine when equipped properly. At endgame, though, they have never found a niche where they are more useful than any other job - at least not to an extent where you would seriously care to bring a PUP in preference to something else more common. Square-Enix keeps trying, but they have not yet succeeded in finding a home for Puppetmasters at endgame (one might say the same thing for Dancers and Blue Mages to a greater or lesser extent).


Icemage

[Takelli]

Re: the only needed Jobs in FFXI are WHM, PLD, BLM and SAM???

And I hope you are able to find a serious endgame shell that utilizes all jobs on a regular basis and is out to have fun over winning. I've played for nearly 7 years now and I haven't seen a single one out there yet. I keep getting into ones that say "oh we are just in it to have fun" and then you see the seriousness at an event and bickering and finger pointing and etc... To many winning IS fun so who's to say whats right or wrong? The person who wants to have fun by winning and would rather have a Sam in the ally instead of a Pup? Or the person that says they don't care if you come on Pup even though we might lose the fight?

I'd also like to say that earning some endgame equips mean you need to put winning over fun. You need to be organized, you need to have experienced players that know their jobs well and have invested the time and effort into equipping it, and you have to put the right jobs to the tasks. So if you see some person walking around in some awesome equips that were earned by doing some of the trickier endgame events and you say "Geez I can't wait to get that piece!", then you better realize you'll have to put winning over fun at some point.......and like it.

I have been in a End game LS that aid they where in it for fun, and the leader paid for 1/2 the entrance, the players payed for the rest. (And this was the LS that kicked me when the sam relic dropped). We did three runs. The first one we did good at, got a bunch of gear (And Ito), and a ton of ancient currency. Got about 30k. Made 20k profit from that run, and it was fun, as people did what they wanted, as long as staying with in a certain range of the group leader, and healers, and Ect. The second time, we wiped, and then the whoe bitching started, blaming the mages, the leader for wrong instructions, the DD for not doing enough damage. Then teh third time came around. We where winning, infact we killed the boss, and everyone was happy, but then I got kicked by the leader, and I lost my sam relic.

I don't care if I get endgame gear. I don't care, if I have "The best gear there is". I don't care about any of that stuff. Sure, it would be nice to have it, but is it NEEDED? No. I have seen some gear that I wanted, but then onc eI got it, it was just like... "Meh..." I don't play for end game, I don't play to have the strongest character, I just play to have fun, and talk to my friends. Why cant others be in teh game for fun like that. It seems that my LS is the only one that cares about just having fun in the game...

[Ketaru]

Re: the only needed Jobs in FFXI are WHM, PLD, BLM and SAM???

To many winning IS fun so who's to say whats right or wrong?

That's somewhat of a mistake. Winning isn't fun. Being the only group that can win is what's fun to people. When Ixion was introduced, I'm pretty sure people complained that it was too easy. Merely claiming it is what's the pain in the arse. If winning was all that was fun, people really wouldn't have the right to claim something was too easy while still only bringing the optimal jobs. If there was a chance of losing through lack of job availability, LSs just wouldn't go because nobody wants to be seen as "The LS that wiped to XYZ-HNM".

[odjnlinus]

Re: the only needed Jobs in FFXI are WHM, PLD, BLM and SAM???

This is the sad state of affairs we have come to in the world of Final Fantasy XI, where winning overshadows everything else, but really sometimes I can't blame them with the Limitations SE puts on some of the endgame activities. Like endgame mobs that drop this really gorgeous piece of equipment, but haven't dropped it in like 7 attempts, I can see how this can tick a lot of people off, which is where the Optimal Fast Easy Setup thing came from. The faster they can kill this mob when it spawns, the more chances they will have at it dropping this gorgeous piece of equipment.

Personally I would love to be around every job at 75 to see what they can do, I want to see the abilities and skills of a 75 PUP, I want to witness the damage of a MB from a SC with an AM II from a 75 BLM, I want to see those crazy DNC merit abilities, I want to see that WAR throw that tomahawk like there was no tomorrow, I want to see that NIN Elemental Wheel his ass off with SAN spells, BUT I can't because unless those abilities are needed, people will never use em.

As for Gear wise, Endgame gear is out of my reach well aside from Nyzul and Assault bc I can make runs for those on days where I'm off bc they are not exceptional difficult, but for now I'm working on utilizing all my abilities to it's full potential, like having gear swaps for that one ability or having that HP + gear for a certain ability, blah blah blah you get the point. I'm gonna be that guy who can fully utilize his job and all it's perks without having stepped a foot in endgame territory.

Just be the best at your job, even if it will only matter to people in your Social LS, that's what I'm doing.

[Nuriko]

Re: the only needed Jobs in FFXI are WHM, PLD, BLM and SAM???

I can see one very good role for PUP, and it's the same sort of role as SMN fills in endgame - enmity-free (so to speak) damage. Just have the automaton nuke, then deactivate and you shed that enmity. Granted, BLM might be able to hit harder (especially due to better spell selection), but they have to worry about the mob turning and taking a swipe at them if they cross the hate line. If a PUP's automaton managed the same, the PUP could just be swapped out, but it really shouldn't be able to happen...

[TheGrandMom]

Re: the only needed Jobs in FFXI are WHM, PLD, BLM and SAM???

I have been in a End game LS that aid they where in it for fun, and the leader paid for 1/2 the entrance, the players payed for the rest. (And this was the LS that kicked me when the sam relic dropped). We did three runs. The first one we did good at, got a bunch of gear (And Ito), and a ton of ancient currency. Got about 30k. Made 20k profit from that run, and it was fun, as people did what they wanted, as long as staying with in a certain range of the group leader, and healers, and Ect. The second time, we wiped, and then the whoe bitching started, blaming the mages, the leader for wrong instructions, the DD for not doing enough damage. Then teh third time came around. We where winning, infact we killed the boss, and everyone was happy, but then I got kicked by the leader, and I lost my sam relic.

I don't care if I get endgame gear. I don't care, if I have "The best gear there is". I don't care about any of that stuff. Sure, it would be nice to have it, but is it NEEDED? No. I have seen some gear that I wanted, but then onc eI got it, it was just like... "Meh..." I don't play for end game, I don't play to have the strongest character, I just play to have fun, and talk to my friends. Why cant others be in teh game for fun like that. It seems that my LS is the only one that cares about just having fun in the game...

Ok don't take this the wrong way, but a Dynamis ls is not what most people consider an endgame ls. Endgame ls's are a much broader affair. They do a variety of things, including taking down Kings/HNM's. Dynamis ls's are a dime a dozen so find yourself another one. Talk to members of it and see what their views are and if you find a lot of disgruntled members, {Run away!} Also, I'm not understanding about your Sam relic. You got kicked from the ls and lost the relic? Did someone out lot you and then they kicked you?

Ya, I didn't care about endgame gear either. I passed on a lot of items most of the time because I knew there were people that put forth the effort and really wanted that piece more than I did. Gear just isn't that big of a deal to me though I do make sure to have decent pieces to benefit my job.

That's somewhat of a mistake. Winning isn't fun. Being the only group that can win is what's fun to people. When Ixion was introduced, I'm pretty sure people complained that it was too easy. Merely claiming it is what's the pain in the arse. If winning was all that was fun, people really wouldn't have the right to claim something was too easy while still only bringing the optimal jobs. If there was a chance of losing through lack of job availability, LSs just wouldn't go because nobody wants to be seen as "The LS that wiped to XYZ-HNM".

I'm sorry but how can you say that winning isn't fun for some people? That's their choice to make. It may not be fun for you but for them it is. They win, they get goodies, and they get an uber title sometimes. In their eyes, getting that is what its all about and to do that they want the "perfect" setup and strategy. That's their fun, not mine, but who are we to say its wrong?

[Takelli]

Re: the only needed Jobs in FFXI are WHM, PLD, BLM and SAM???

Ok don't take this the wrong way, but a Dynamis ls is not what most people consider an endgame ls. Endgame ls's are a much broader affair. They do a variety of things, including taking down Kings/HNM's. Dynamis ls's are a dime a dozen so find yourself another one. Talk to members of it and see what their views are and if you find a lot of disgruntled members, {Run away!} Also, I'm not understanding about your Sam relic. You got kicked from the ls and lost the relic? Did someone out lot you and then they kicked you?

I was just using Dynamis as an example, as they are pretty strict about the runs and such. I was feeling lazy, and didn't want to list all the end game stuff. Nyzul, HNMs (Which I hated... they should be force spawns IMO), Gods, ect...

I was promised a Sam relic (Hands if I remember) when I joined the Ls as an incentive to continue with the Ls. When the Relic dropped, I was kicked from the Ls, and some one else lotted on it (It showed the lot right before I got kicked), and the one that kicked me, was the ls leader.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: the only needed Jobs in FFXI are WHM, PLD, BLM and SAM???

Well, it really doesn't matter if you are kicked from the party, alliance, or ls when you are in Dynamis because you can still lot on stuff. So thats why I don't understand your point. It seems you are saying you couldn't lot the piece or relic because you were kicked and yet you could. I am confuzzled!

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: the only needed Jobs in FFXI are WHM, PLD, BLM and SAM???

I wonder if YM was talking about someone (say, PLD/NIN) kiting something like Kirin (yes, people still do that), then a PUP set his Automaton to chase after Kirin to hack at its ankles.

In that case, ... I don't know. Not sure how good an Automaton would be at hitting Kirin. May be worth a try, though, for Kirin and other critters that are regularly kited.

[Takelli]

Re: the only needed Jobs in FFXI are WHM, PLD, BLM and SAM???

Well, it really doesn't matter if you are kicked from the party, alliance, or ls when you are in Dynamis because you can still lot on stuff. So thats why I don't understand your point. It seems you are saying you couldn't lot the piece or relic because you were kicked and yet you could. I am confuzzled!

I just remember that I lost the relic as I died, and the mages refused to raise me no matter how much I asked them (And no fighting was going on either). I just got pissed and home pointed, and when I went to check the ls, it was broken.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: the only needed Jobs in FFXI are WHM, PLD, BLM and SAM???

In that case, ... I don't know. Not sure how good an Automaton would be at hitting Kirin. May be worth a try, though, for Kirin and other critters that are regularly kited.

Maybe if you guys actually gave it a valid chance we wouldn't have so many "I don't knows" . . . but no . . .

To many winning IS fun so who's to say whats right or wrong? The person who wants to have fun by winning and would rather have a Sam in the ally instead of a Pup? Or the person that says they don't care if you come on Pup even though we might lose the fight?

Oh noes, if we dare try something even remotely different, we might lose the fight! SAM ONRY!

[TheGrandMom]

Re: the only needed Jobs in FFXI are WHM, PLD, BLM and SAM???

Maybe if you guys actually gave it a valid chance we wouldn't have so many "I don't knows" . . . but no . . .



Oh noes, if we dare try something even remotely different, we might lose the fight! SAM ONRY!

The problem is YM that you have to convince a majority of the right people to actually try something different. We all know who those people are too, look to those elite endgame shells that post on BG. You know whatever they say is gospel.

[Truece]

Re: the only needed Jobs in FFXI are WHM, PLD, BLM and SAM???

That's somewhat of a mistake. Winning isn't fun.

I find winning much more fun that NOT winning. I've never won something and thought "Damn, I'm so sad that I won..."

Hell, I was even happy that I won a Fafnir statue in this year's Mog Bonanza! Much better than nothing at all.

[Icemage]

Re: the only needed Jobs in FFXI are WHM, PLD, BLM and SAM???

Maybe if you guys actually gave it a valid chance we wouldn't have so many "I don't knows" . . . but no . . .

Oh noes, if we dare try something even remotely different, we might lose the fight! SAM ONRY!

Actually YM, if you would stop reading BG and go out and talk to some of the people in the good endgame linkshells (as opposed to the majority of poseurs at BG), you'd know that most of the best linkshells try unusual stuff all the time. It's how they get to BE the best - they try out new strategies, new job abilities, and test the limits of every job as far as they can.

Or heaven forbid you get your butt into gear, get to level 75, and experience some endgame so you can talk knowledgeably about it instead of going on your quixotic tilting-at-windmills tirades against how you think all endgame shells are run.


Icemage