Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

[Lunaryn]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

That's why there shouldn't be *a* fastest way to earn EXP. Several different styles of exp play (ideally, party and solo) should be balanced *against each other* to yield *equal* exp/hr. Then players really could play the style of play they enjoy and not have to be sacrificing a ton of effectiveness to do so. SE is making some baby steps in this direction with the improved Signet for duos and trios and FoV, but they're doing that while dancing around the biggest balance offender, the post-ToAU meleeburn. (Which the other huge balance problem in the game, Utsusemi, is implicated in to some degree, but the way the problem expanded and proliferated after ToAU proves that Utsusemi isn't the whole story.)

Or at least approximately equal - I know the devs are human and nobody can anticipate all possible contingencies perfectly. But what we have now isn't even close - melee DD heavy parties fighting low level, low HP opponents get ridiculous amounts of exp/hr and everything else is *vastly* less effective at getting experience points (which is a task that everyone has to do, and everyone has to do a lot of, and after the first couple hundred thousand, the fewer hours you have to spend on it, the better, in most people's opinions). Furthermore, it hasn't been meaningfully adjusted in years, which gives the impression that the devs are either unaware of the issue, or don't mind having one style of play privileged over others (and jobs that fit that style well privileged over jobs that fit it poorly, especially for merits which can be earned on any job).

Pre ToAU was enormously better balanced and everyone knows it - especially the jobs that don't want to turn back the clock because they benefit from the current imbalance.

I would caveat that somewhat. I would like to see relative parity between what various 6-man party configurations can achieve (and some target-mob-specific marginal advantages spread between such styles would be potentially useful), but if you're going to talk about 'equal' solo xp potential you have to account for the fact that xp parties, especially large ones, have a lot of organizational overhead. At a minimum to make it worthwhile, xp/hr equity would have to count the average lfg wait time at 0 xp into the party rate, and even then it'd be really hard to get people on board if they could skip the hassle and still rake in the same xp for the time invested. (Yes, you could still come out ahead in such a scenario by soloing and seeking at the same time, but would it be enough to take the risks inherent in breaking off from your soloing and going to camp (e.g. party breaks up shortly after you get there, leader's incompetent, the refresher doesn't like your gear and demands someone else, etc.)?)

Unpopular as it may be with some folks, I do think party size should grant a distinct efficiency privilege in terms of game mechanics, because it imposes a number of significant inherent obstacles.

[Ziero]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

With all the options and changes and boosts to gaining Exp/merits this game has seen, I honestly don't believe people should be complaining about it as much as they do. People still will regardless, but I see it as unfounded and unneeded. That's not saying I'm against further changes and enhancements (exp bonus for SC+MB to help traditional parties?), I just don't think it's as big of a problem as people make it out to be.

[Karinya]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

You are aware that burn type PTs have always been *the* best way to get Exp in this game right? Loooong before ToAU came out Axe-burn, Bone-Burn, Arrow-Burn and Mana-Burn were by far the most effective ways to get Exp, where long before Sanction, they would be able to run laps around a "traditional" party if they had a good camp and good players. With the addition of ToAU all melee jobs and most support jobs can get in on these burn style PTs, and do so in more then one location. They're not just aware of this situation, they did everything they could to open it up to as many jobs as they possibly can.

Not really. If you had Ru'Avitau or KRT to yourself (almost never) with skill and good coordination you could make *maybe* 1.5-2x the exp of a traditional party - and that was with awesomely geared DDs. Nice, but not nearly enough to make traditional parties obsolete, especially when the TP burn camps filled up. (Also, you *really needed* a bard to achieve that level of exp, and they were much rarer then than they are now.) Now you can get 3x the exp of a traditional party even in overcrowded camps, provided they're overcrowded ToAU camps.

Pre-ToAU, TP burns were the best PTs, but highly limited, post ToAU, TP burns are still the best, but can work with far more job set-ups. So how is that balancing to the few?

Tell me how well that works for PLD, WHM, BLM, THF, and other jobs that are defense oriented or rely on cooperation between players...? Any job that can TP burn now could do it in Ru'Avitau under the conditions that allowed TP burns to succeed in Ru'Avitau before. They haven't been expanded; their reward has just been increased even further to the point that nobody is going to even try to form a traditional party at 75 anymore. That's what killed playstyle diversity. (Well, reduced it, anyway. There are still a few manaburns around, mainly because BLMs can't get into anything else anymore.) And that, in turn, hoses jobs that don't fit into the One Dominant Setup.

Did you actually play in 2005-6? Because it sure sounds like you're only talking about it from secondhand reports. If you actually experienced the exp party scene then and now you wouldn't have any doubt what the difference is: then there were several different party styles that you could join, now it's TP burn or GTFO.

[Sekighara]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

Did you actually play in 2005-6? Because it sure sounds like you're only talking about it from secondhand reports. If you actually experienced the exp party scene then and now you wouldn't have any doubt what the difference is: then there were several different party styles that you could join, now it's TP burn or GTFO.

Ah man seriously I quite at the end of 06 and i was thinking of going back in, but i hate burn parties...

[Malacite]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

What happened during inflation doesn't justify EXP parties not having an edge.

The ToAU style is actually what our Dev Team intended apparently, to burn through weaker enemies. As you said though, they need to expand on this and make more play styles just as rewarding.

I.E., the old SC + MB style parties that take on considerably harder enemies (and generally can't go past chain 5, if you even reach it) should be getting a minimum of 500 EXP a kill for example (before chain bonuses) to put on par with TP burns. Then PLD and BLM wouldn't be so screwed and RDM's who don't feel like main healing and actually putting that enfeebling skill to use could do so.


I don't think solo EXP should match up though, even for jobs like BST. There are already a few good camps where the solo jobs can rake in quite a bit of EXP as is. The only thing I would do with this is maybe add incentive for pet jobs to team up and take on some really hard mobs for great EXP.

This game is all about group play. The tools are all there, SE just has to work with them to add the incentive needed rather than nerfing crap like they did in the beginning.

[dirtyclown]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

I don't think solo EXP should match up though, even for jobs like BST. There are already a few good camps where the solo jobs can rake in quite a bit of EXP as is. The only thing I would do with this is maybe add incentive for pet jobs to team up and take on some really hard mobs for great EXP.

I like how everyone adds that BST shouldn't be able to achieve this or do that, but in the end BST would benefit most from a boost to exp gained while solo, especially when you consider that we die far more often than even the most retarded player who doesn't know what Cover is for and thinks that when the mob is turned toward them they should spam WS and use Soul Eater and Last Resort just to be sure.

This game is all about group play. The tools are all there, SE just has to work with them to add the incentive needed rather than nerfing crap like they did in the beginning.

These tools are either broken or not applicable for our current situation. It's kind of like trying to extract a screw from a piece of wood with a shotgun rather than a screw driver, and no amount of new stuff that SE gives us will change the community from doing what it's doing now or how it perceives certain jobs. Just take a look at Paladins, they've gotten something new in just about every version update since shielding skill got unfucked and people still laugh at them for wanting to merit outside of campaign.

I'm all for group play, but I'm not all for "play this job, or you can get fucked."

[Szkol]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

I'm all for group play, but I'm not all for "play this job, or you can get fucked."

I love that FFXI is so group-oriented, but I hate that it has resulted in this type of mentality.

WAR and NIN are the only subs that even exist anymore in XP, and I actually cry tears of joy anytime I find myself in a party that knows how to SC+MB.

When I first started the game, SC+MB was a concept that was completely crammed down your throat, that was the only way you ever did things, at least all the way through the level 30 camps.


Now it's like you better start subbing NIN the minute you hit level 20- and it has gotten to such ludicrous levels that morons ask NIN to tank in lv 10 dunes parties.

I know lots of people are totally on the 'I NIN wagon' but I hate the job, and I hate even more that I'm given the ultimatum of /NIN or no XP for you. I'd love to see an update where SE accdientally ruined /NIN somehow- there'd be riots b/c noone knows how to party without it anymore. /NIN simply encourages the WS spam parties that seem to be the only thing you find anymore, and I really really feel bad for the poor tanks, b/c anymore DDs are all like " lol HATE? WTF is that? i HATE YOU you dumb tank y r U not spam Voke every 10 sec???!"

[dirtyclown]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

SE also encourages that mentality by making mobs like the Colibri.

[meSchnitzel]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

I love that FFXI is so group-oriented, but I hate that it has resulted in this type of mentality.

WAR and NIN are the only subs that even exist anymore in XP, and I actually cry tears of joy anytime I find myself in a party that knows how to SC+MB.

When I first started the game, SC+MB was a concept that was completely crammed down your throat, that was the only way you ever did things, at least all the way through the level 30 camps.


Now it's like you better start subbing NIN the minute you hit level 20- and it has gotten to such ludicrous levels that morons ask NIN to tank in lv 10 dunes parties.

I know lots of people are totally on the 'I NIN wagon' but I hate the job, and I hate even more that I'm given the ultimatum of /NIN or no XP for you. I'd love to see an update where SE accdientally ruined /NIN somehow- there'd be riots b/c noone knows how to party without it anymore. /NIN simply encourages the WS spam parties that seem to be the only thing you find anymore, and I really really feel bad for the poor tanks, b/c anymore DDs are all like " lol HATE? WTF is that? i HATE YOU you dumb tank y r U not spam Voke every 10 sec???!"

I've noticed this too! Back w/ US release all you ever did was form a well balanced party, SC + MB, and that got you damn good XP. Sure, there were burn parties and mana burn parties, but the traditional 6 man party working together, each person with their own unique job ( or unique way of doing a job ) had its place and you learned to balance a party around what was available, not keep looking until you found that one job that you really wanted in your PT.

It was better then, IMO, and it makes me a little sad comming back to things how they are. I was forunate however to find a LS that likes to play together, forming good ol' fashion 6 man parties with whoever is online. And we make it work!

I tend to use the FoV to solo more than party now, because I don't like the idea of tp burn parties, and when i can party with some good people I do... otherwise I work on all the other crap in the game... recently its crafting ^.^

It would be awesome to get XP bonuses for SC + MB and the like... and for solo BST players it would be nice to get some different sort of solo XP bonuses (though I feel like FoV was SEs answer to helping the solo classes, and I understand they are looking to expand it past the zones it is currently in. )

[hexx]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

I love that FFXI is so group-oriented, but I hate that it has resulted in this type of mentality.

WAR and NIN are the only subs that even exist anymore in XP, and I actually cry tears of joy anytime I find myself in a party that knows how to SC+MB.

When I first started the game, SC+MB was a concept that was completely crammed down your throat, that was the only way you ever did things, at least all the way through the level 30 camps.


Now it's like you better start subbing NIN the minute you hit level 20- and it has gotten to such ludicrous levels that morons ask NIN to tank in lv 10 dunes parties.

I know lots of people are totally on the 'I NIN wagon' but I hate the job, and I hate even more that I'm given the ultimatum of /NIN or no XP for you. I'd love to see an update where SE accdientally ruined /NIN somehow- there'd be riots b/c noone knows how to party without it anymore. /NIN simply encourages the WS spam parties that seem to be the only thing you find anymore, and I really really feel bad for the poor tanks, b/c anymore DDs are all like " lol HATE? WTF is that? i HATE YOU you dumb tank y r U not spam Voke every 10 sec???!"

I agree, and disagree with your point. NIN is a great job, and has its role to play as well, but yes, /NIN is overused to the point that its stupid. /NIN gimps, more than helps really but I gotta say, sometimes, tanks just arent up to par. I've lost count of how many times I have died on SAM because the tank cant seem to hold hate. Now i've been told its because I dont know how to back off and let them grab hate, but the thing is, I DO hold back! Mobs tend to turn on me with only a critical for fucks sake! /NIN nowadays if more for survivability than anything else for me since I also have emnity merited for my PLD (my main job) so I really dont have much of a choice unless I go /THF instead.

As far as SC + MB, I loved that concept, and hate the fact that people don't use it anymore. There was honestly nothing more satisfying that nailing the SC and then for a BLM to land a nice big nuke afterwards and see the mob drop from the pwnage.

The current merit system is decent, but yes, it could be improved by putting certain magic and weapon skills as separate categories. I cant complain much, since I played it smart and lvled jobs who's weapons somewhat overlap (PLD, BLU, RDM) but at the same time, I find myself lacking because I cannot merit GK without getting rid of some of my other weapon merits.

That was my two cents there.

[Malacite]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

I like how everyone adds that BST shouldn't be able to achieve this or do that, but in the end BST would benefit most from a boost to exp gained while solo, especially when you consider that we die far more often than even the most retarded player who doesn't know what Cover is for and thinks that when the mob is turned toward them they should spam WS and use Soul Eater and Last Resort just to be sure.

I don't die that often on BST, and when I do it's usually because of Charm failing. If people could get it through their heads that BST are damn good DD's in parties and start inviting them that would be great.

A good BST with the right Jug can dish out some scary damage and with Snarl you can just give hate to your pet if you turn the mob.

[ospeff]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

I level my BST in parties, I make my own groups and PL myself with my RDM so nobody complains, they are very good DD.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

It would be awesome to get XP bonuses for SC + MB and the like... and for solo BST players it would be nice to get some different sort of solo XP bonuses (though I feel like FoV was SEs answer to helping the solo classes, and I understand they are looking to expand it past the zones it is currently in. )

BST doesn't need special treatment.

We already make more gil/seals just soloing our EXP/merits than the rest of you.

[Malacite]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

We already make more gil/seals just soloing our EXP/merits than the rest of you.

Now if I could just find 2 regulars to spam Up in Arms with me.


I have over 700 beast seals X~x and 300+ Kindred (I want to use those for BB items)

[Raydeus]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

/


I'll go if I ever go back to the game and move to the same server as you. And I have like 500 BS and 300ish KS or something (don't really remember anymore.)



PS > Although you'd also have to wait for me to get 75, cause I was lvl 45 or something when I quit.




...what? <_<