Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

[Feba]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

Unfortunately, SE still doesn't seem to get that meleeburn dominance is more a factor of the massive xp/hr differences than of preference for that style of play; they still sound like they expect people to xp in the way they personally prefer no matter how much or little xp it's worth.

At the same time, this would be a Bad Thing. If it were put to a vote, lots of people would vote to have soloing be not only a viable way to earn EXP, but the fastest. That would be a pretty bad thing for FFXI in general. The way to gain EXP that I might find most fun would not the kind you would find most fun; a BST, NIN, and WHM could have completely separate ideals.

[Malacite]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

Well, I'm 11k to BST 72 now which means I'll soon have 7 jobs to merit which is not fun. Haven't finished meriting MP either and I'm not even thinking about touching STR...


It's not just the 10k per merit but also the increasing cost per upgrade that makes it such a pain in the ass. The way I figure it, there's a shitload of things to do that are fun and/or challenging at end game as it is, so why force us into spending so much time killing flamingos -.-

[ShepardG]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

How about...
General merit category's:
-Adjustable once every conquest cycle
-How ever many points you put into it is how many you have to play with

So for instance:

-you've earned 30 merit points and you have a 75MNK and a 75RDM
-your Dynamis LS get's a new RDM member who only can come as a RDM so your leaders agree to let you come as MNK.
-next conquest cycle you remove all your +INT merits and all your +enfeebling magic skill and your +Dagger Skill merits. You now have 30 Merits with which to adjust your character based on a melee job.

I mean you earned 300,000 experience points, why not have them be dynamic from that point on.

Job Specific Merits:

-Don't change a thing, if you spent your merits on Optimazation(sp) for PUP and you want to change them to Fine tunning, you would have to wipe those merits like we do now, and start again fresh.

You wouldn't be able to swap merits between the 2 categorys, General and Job specific, but at the same time, you would be a more dynamic well rounded player.

The cap of 10 merits could still be instituted until you spent them into the general category where they would have their own pool, or you spent them into the job specific category, where the would be locked in, until you removed/re-earned them. I mean, I have a buddy who was a ranger main, and spent 36 fucking merits to his +STR category, to get +5 STR. He now has THF,RDM,BLU at 75, and while not totally worthless, I'm sure he'd love to be able to re-use them into something like, DEX or INT or a combo of different stats.

This would entail having a Merit point cap, for the General Category, but I don't see that being a problem. I mean 185 merits to reach the distro cap. That would allow you to cap out all categorys.

That's almost 2 million exp points (1,850,000 to be exact IT'S MATH PEOPLE).

If you averaged 20k/hour in Merit parties, that would take 92,500 hours to get that many merits....jesus fucking christ in a port-a-potty....anyway

that's 3,854 days and that's if you meripo'd for 24/7 non-stop.

So I don't see that being a problem. If you had to delete your merits to change them around, that number becomes infinity which is alot more.....at least 20,000 more than if there was a cap. (IT'S MATH PEOPLE SHEESH!)

Way I see it, why not give players the love for the next 5 years. Why 5 years you ask? because after that, I see FFXI going the way of the doo-doo.

EDIT:

wait a second....that math is all jacked up.....no wonder I fuck with explosives all day long, instead of doing some sort of real job.

[Elwynn]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

I think 5000 xp for a merit would be nice, specially considering the sheer amount of merits you need to get just for a single job. *This of course is from the perspective of someone who didn't have time to party*

. . .

Like a fight against Trion or Prishe that was tough enough to last 30 to 45 mins . . .

What, solo? You don't have time to party, but you do have time to do the same half hour or more boss fight every few days, either solo or you've got to find a group to go in with? I personally happen to find half-hour boss fights to be one of the most annoying parts of single-player RPGs. They're just one of the ways that RPG makers artificially inflate the time it takes to clear a game, right along with forced encounters every 15-30 steps.

WHMs will not be your friend if you make them have to solo something like that. That is specifically why Maat has special victory conditions for WHM.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

This of course is from the perspective of someone who didn't have time to party*

From a RDM, a merit sponge who can get a merit invite without asking.

]Now, I think there should be other ways to merit. Like quests or specially tough solo battlefields that cost some kind of item (Maat fight style) to access but rewarded you with a merit or two depending on the difficulty. No xp, no gil, no nothing, just merits.

Ohshitihadanidea.

Oh... this kind of thing is already in the game - ENMs and COP battles. Only its not solo. MMORPG - work with people. God forbid, I know. You have 45 mins to solo as a RDM, you likely have 45 mins to merit as one.

Then you said...

There are many ways for SE to make meriting more accessible without giving merits away or dumbing the system down to 1/10th of it's current state.

They simply don't want to try.

Then this "SE fails" crap - it wouldn't be a Raydeus post if you didn't work it in. Sorry, but there are a TON of ways to get merits right now that you choose not to use. Instead you just sit on you ass and complain.

My point is, your point fails

And my gear plays my job for me? I practically get all the melee gear a RDM does and use it better for COR, my performance is hardly as phoned-in as yours probably is. Haste and Refresh and Cure, amirite?

RNG - as if you even knew anything about being RNG.

And you don't.

Then you'd know a lot more goes into it than gear. The gear is just pretty much free. There's a reason for that - I pay assloads of gil elsewhere, just like COR.

[Empedocles]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

Merit PTs
Sky/Sea Farming
Besieged
Campaign
Level Sync
Sanction/Sigil
Corsair's Roll
CoP mission wins
EXP scrolls
Empress/Anniversery Bands.
Moblin Maze Mongers

Correct me if I'm wrong but these give you limit(exp) points towards your merit points.

What I think Raydeus means is doing stuff to give you merit points directly, such as, you win this fight and your reward is 3 merit points, meaning if you were 1300/10000 Limit Points with 2 Merit Points before the fight, afterwards you would be 1300/10000 Limit Points with 5 Merit Points.

[Satimasu]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

The system is fine. There are a ton of ways to get merits now without having to actually party. I capped out RDM merits just doing Campaign and Besieged. It didn't take an insanely long time to build up the merits either. I seriously don't see where the problem is. I'd even let it cap out at 10 multiple times from being indecisive in what to put merits into. I'm about as casual as you can get.

Just pick and choose what job you're playing most to focus on merits while putting others on the back burner. I don't see how this is such a major issue. Before ToAU, getting merits was a lot more difficult. They made things 100x's easier and still it's not good enough. How about we just log off or stand idle and you get merits based on how long you stand there? But then, that still wouldn't be good enough, would it?

[Firewind]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

Now, I think there should be other ways to merit. Like quests or specially tough solo battlefields that cost some kind of item (Maat fight style) to access but rewarded you with a merit or two depending on the difficulty. No xp, no gil, no nothing, just merits.

They already have that. It's called Campaign

[ShepardG]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

The system is fine. There are a ton of ways to get merits now without having to actually party. I capped out RDM merits just doing Campaign and Besieged. It didn't take an insanely long time to build up the merits either. I seriously don't see where the problem is. I'd even let it cap out at 10 multiple times from being indecisive in what to put merits into. I'm about as casual as you can get.

Just pick and choose what job you're playing most to focus on merits while putting others on the back burner. I don't see how this is such a major issue. Before ToAU, getting merits was a lot more difficult. They made things 100x's easier and still it's not good enough. How about we just log off or stand idle and you get merits based on how long you stand there? But then, that still wouldn't be good enough, would it?

This ^ is a good point, HOWEVER.

I get all phylisophical and shit in here, so be warned

I know in my personal opinion, I love Final Fantasy XI, but I also see it's age. I would love to get an Usukane set, a Kenkonken, and a K-Club. But I don't have the kind of time to play to achieve all those things unless I get real lucky.

I also don't have the time to get merits unless I make sacrifice in other areas. 2-3 hours to get 4-5 merits that I spend on 1 merit category, and then those 2-3 hours are essentially gone, wasted time, if I wanted to merit something else.

SE gave us the ability to switch to multiple jobs, but then they restrict us to choose one type of job to "Merit".

I value my time playing this game, because I know that the game as it is now, won't be around for another 15 years, probably not even 10 years. Hell I'm hoping for 5! Eventually something more updated, without ps2 limitations, and RMTer's and all the flaws we grip and moan about is going to come along, and our FFXI is going to be gone.

The subject of this thread is about new job improvements, and I think we'll all agree that those job improvements, what ever they may be, will "hopefully" make the game enjoyable.

But all these threads I read about game improvements, and job improvments, and merit changes, don't ever get to the heart of the matter. We all die. Eventually our FFXI world will end and nobody wants to look back on the happy memorys they had of the game, and have regrets.

"Well I was 3/4 of the way through my relic, I had 2 pieces of Usukane, and I spent 670 Beastman seals on getting a K Club which I never got, before they took the servers off line. I wish I hadn't spent so much time meriting!"

[Satimasu]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

Funny. There are things that I want too. I can't get them either though. I just take it and roll with it. Merits were meant to distinguish jobs and characters instead of being just the same 75 job with the same everything. You don't HAVE to merit. It's an option given to us.

Why does this game have to die? All the ancient MMO's that were successful before are pretty much still around. Why would this change for XI? 7 years and it's still going just as strong if not better.

[dirtyclown]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

Merits aren't meant to distinguish jobs and characters. If SE wanted us to customize our characters in any way they'd allow us to do so from the beginning, not toss in a system at endgame level filled with a bunch of generic Merit choices with the odd new ability here and there. Merit grinding is just like any other MMORPG timesink, you dig a massive hole straight downward and at the bottom is not treasure or China, it's just a pointless hole. That's how MMOs work.

The other thing about Merits is that they are actually required despite what anyone says to justify their posts. We need those group 2 abilities because they kick so much ass and by now are integral to fighting those big monsters that drop those shinies you all love so much. So even though the game doesn't force anyone to gain merits, those who neglect to do so will get laughed out of whatever Alliance they join for being gimp.

[Ziero]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

Actually Merits ARE meant to help distinguish two different characters once they hit 75. It's a way to help differentiate that guy who plays Rdm occasionally at events if needed with that career Rdm who prefers to be on the job all the time. They highlight the difference between a War/Nin Dual Wielder build and a War/Sam Gaxe build. They're the difference between a risk taking Cor who likes to go for broke and the one who plays it safe and always has his backup plan ready to correct any mistakes.

Minor as they may be, they do allow some form of uniqueness in this game, something that imo is sorely lacking compared to other MMOs. And while there may be some abilities that everyone on a job should max out (Feint/Chivalry etc), many allow enough leeway to have minor differences which change, but not hamper, a player's capabilities. If anything, I would prefer to have this system expanded rather then re-invisioned. Not saying Merits don't have their innate problems however, just saying they're not a major negative issue in this game when it comes to job balance.

Though if any job gets majorly hosed with Merits, it's Nin.

[dirtyclown]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

Merits don't really do anything to distinguish one character from another outside of group 2 abilities and slightly faster recast times. Higher crit rate is cool, but you only ever see a real difference through a parser, and that's how almost every other benefit from meriting works. SE gave us the illusion that we're making our characters unique, but all we're really doing is playing their game more.

[Ziero]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

Well you can always not play if it's some big issue. I mean, I'm not going to say merits aren't designed to make people play more...but that's kind of the point, to give us something to spend our time working towards. It's not like we'll spend 2 hours in a merit PT, go back to our MH, get ready to spend them and suddenly an SE employee comes in and resets them to 0 leaving us with nothing.

It's a form of character progression over time and gameplay, something every RPG game has. The problem with merits imo isn't the merits themselves, but how limited overall the system is. And again, I would rather see more merit options added to allow players to further enhance their characters in a unique fashion as opposed to more options that allow every player to be everything all at once.

[dirtyclown]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

It's a form of character progression over time and gameplay, something every RPG game has. The problem with merits imo isn't the merits themselves, but how limited overall the system is. And again, I would rather see more merit options added to allow players to further enhance their characters in a unique fashion as opposed to more options that allow every player to be everything all at once.

You know, you and I are on the same page. I think that merits are too limited to give us any real customization, or to at least let us apply the merited skills in some meaningful way for all of the jobs we like. We can't really customize when most of the options are grayed out, imo.

Well you can always not play if it's some big issue. I mean, I'm not going to say merits aren't designed to make people play more...but that's kind of the point, to give us something to spend our time working towards. It's not like we'll spend 2 hours in a merit PT, go back to our MH, get ready to spend them and suddenly an SE employee comes in and resets them to 0 leaving us with nothing

The thing about it though, is it isn't a huge issue for me. I was just pointing out what merits were by using an analogy that makes SE look like a bunch of greedy businessmen. I'm such a negative Nancy sometimes.