Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

[Firewind]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

You're joking right? The last few parties I had had tanks that didn't even carry echo drops. How can you expect DDs to remember meds if tanks can't?

[Truece]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

I know this is not a complete 100% solution... but bring your own meds...

people should not have to rely on the healer 100% even in parties.

As DRG/SAM I bring..
Antidote
Eye Drops

and as Mage or DRG/mage I bring...
Antidote
Eye Drops
Echo Drops
Yag drinks

Heh, if the population ever started doing this, we'd be even more out of a job than we were before! Sure it'd ease the burden on healers; so much so that we become obsolete outside of buffs/haste.

In general, I think its a good idea to carry at least a stack of echo/oils/powders at all times, on all jobs. If I'm /NIN and the healer doesn't take care of my silence right away, then I'll use my echo drops. If I'm a mage and dd's in my PT get silenced (para'd, blinded, poisoned, etc) I'll get to them as soon as I am able to do so. I definitely won't take offense if they decide to use their meds to cure their ailments, but I will also mention to them that if they want to save gil, to just be patient and I'll get to them as soon as I can.

[Mhurron]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

I know this is not a complete 100% solution... but bring your own meds...

people should not have to rely on the healer 100% even in parties.

As DRG/SAM I bring..
Antidote
Eye Drops

and as Mage or DRG/mage I bring...
Antidote
Eye Drops
Echo Drops
Yag drinks

What was the point of having a WHM again?

Meds in a party when you have a WHM are, for the most part, for emergencies.

[Armando]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

Eye drops are too expensive if you ask me, and most Blinds aren't potent enough to justify that kind of expense.

I always bring Antidotes since they're dirt cheap, and Echo Drops because sometimes stuff happens and I need to be able to cast NOW. Even so, I always leave it up to the healers to take off debuffs unless they're tied up with something and it's important that I lose that status ailment ASAP.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

Tha main argument here is why is does the premier healing class in the game have to rely on a 10 minute job recast timer while two jobs can AoE status cure many more times in the same 10 minutes and in a much, much more efficient manner to boot? If I was a DD or tank in a party I would think the SCH losing a strat that they will get back in 1 minute is a fair trade for risking a potential wipe due to a nasty AoE status effect. Yes AoE status cures aren't necessary for ANY job. WHMs and RDMs got along fine without them before SCH and DNC came along. But why is it that the dedicated healing class in the game can't do it?

Hear Hear! I couldn't agree more! I prefer to save my DS to add with a cure or an erase. I think using it with the -na spells is a waste because of the LONG ASS RECAST on it. I will say this though. I'm a better white mage because of DS's long recast. I have learned to prioritize who gets what and when because of it. If I had an DSlike ability I could spam every minute, I wouldn't have to worry about such things which, imo, would make me a lazy mage.

FYI, if you can cast and you don't carry echos, go level a melee and stick with that. (That don't even work since you need them for /nin. lol) There is NO reason that any caster shouldn't have echo's on them AT ALL TIMES. If you are a melee and you are going to kill a mob that does a nasty 20+ tick poison and you don't bring antidotes, don't cry to the whm's if you die. Seriously I'm shocked that so many of you have the "so what I don't carry them" attitude for meds. Why do you think they were put in the game? Research the mobs you are going to fight, bring the appropriate meds, or gtfo.

[Vyuru]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

Seriously I'm shocked that so many of you have the "so what I don't carry them" attitude for meds. Why do you think they were put in the game? Research the mobs you are going to fight, bring the appropriate meds, or gtfo.

While I will say that it highly depends on exactly what it is you are doing, I'd have to say that most of the time I expect the mages to take care of the status ailments.

If however it is a mission or BCNM or some other fairly small scale special event, I can see having the melee bring their own status meds, but by the same token I'd have a talk before hand about it. I wouldn't necessarily expect them to bring them on their own.

In exp situations though I'm more of the mindset that the mages handle it. If it's not going to kill me and it's not like I'm taking hate, I may not even care that I'm losing health until we have some downtime and I need to rest, then I'll ask for a poisona.

[Firewind]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

FYI, if you can cast and you don't carry echos, go level a melee and stick with that. (That don't even work since you need them for /nin. lol) There is NO reason that any caster shouldn't have echo's on them AT ALL TIMES. If you are a melee and you are going to kill a mob that does a nasty 20+ tick poison and you don't bring antidotes, don't cry to the whm's if you die. Seriously I'm shocked that so many of you have the "so what I don't carry them" attitude for meds. Why do you think they were put in the game? Research the mobs you are going to fight, bring the appropriate meds, or gtfo.

There are times when being paired with a lolCOR/WHM or an uncoperative RDM who tries to do everything makes carrying Echos an annoying expense that shouldn't be there. If you Silena me when I'm using my Echos my Echos go to waste. If we are fighting Imps and I'm carrying echos then for the love of god silena the Tank and BLU first. I carry several stacks of these things and post an " {Echo Drops} [insert amount] [Please check it] <call8>" message for a reason.. Could you please stop wasting my gil and Silena the people dumb enough not to bring drops to an exp camp where everyone gets silenced at least 3-4 times?

The only time I ever bugged for a Poisona in a party was when I was the second NIN in a dunes party and I was poisoned with about 12 HP left. RDM/WHM and SCH/WHM healing. Both has access to poisona from thier sub, both let me die because they were too busy spamming Cure II (C1 for the SCH) on the Black Mage. The annoying thing was that the SCH stole an antidote from a chest that popped eariler.

[Pteryx]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

Concerning SMN:
The next SMN adjustment seems like practically a bug fix. Not that it isn't welcome, but I'm still waiting for them to do more to help SMN play its main job a greater percentage of the time. For example: they like the stance mechanic? How about giving SMN an avatar-melee-at-the-expense-of-spells-and-pacts stance, so they have an alternative, native thing to do with the other 50 seconds of each minute? Just click it off when the pact timer is about to come up and turn it back on after using your pacts for the minute and voila, 45 seconds per minute of worthwhile avatar melee and all you're suffering is penalties for Cures and using pacts reactively.

Concerning WHM:
The thing about subbable capabilities is that anyone can use them (well, except RDM and Sublimation). As such, other jobs still come out ahead in terms of MP recovery tools; most get two jobs' worth while WHM doesn't. That being said, Aspir really isn't WHM's style, light-based or no. I stand by my previous proposal: a JA that drastically increases hMP on a temporary basis, perhaps by an amount based on WHM level. 5-minute timer, 1-minute duration. According to Healer's Roll that's a very White Mage-y MP-recovery tool, and no one else does anything quite like it.

And yes, make Divine Veil a seperate JA. 5-minute timer, please. -- Pteryx

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

Hear Hear! I couldn't agree more! I prefer to save my DS to add with a cure or an erase. I think using it with the -na spells is a waste because of the LONG ASS RECAST on it. I will say this though. I'm a better white mage because of DS's long recast. I have learned to prioritize who gets what and when because of it. If I had an DSlike ability I could spam every minute, I wouldn't have to worry about such things which, imo, would make me a lazy mage.

I think being tempered through two trips to 37 on WHM and one trip to 65 on RDM is actually what taught me to not blow Accession too much on SCH. That and Caedarva Mire. People thing AoE status cures are gravy there, but I still save it for Stoneskin and Phalanx because damage mitigation is far more important.

FYI, if you can cast and you don't carry echos, go level a melee and stick with that. (That don't even work since you need them for /nin. lol) There is NO reason that any caster shouldn't have echo's on them AT ALL TIMES. If you are a melee and you are going to kill a mob that does a nasty 20+ tick poison and you don't bring antidotes, don't cry to the whm's if you die. Seriously I'm shocked that so many of you have the "so what I don't carry them" attitude for meds. Why do you think they were put in the game? Research the mobs you are going to fight, bring the appropriate meds, or gtfo.

Always have those echos, well, forgot them once and never forgot again but I digress.

Some melees forget that mages aren't babysitters. Sneak? Use sneak oils or Monomi: Ichi. Invisible? Prisim powders or Tonko, please. Mob that spams silence? Not my problem, bring echo drop. Cost too much? Fuck you, my other jobs are RNG and COR, I spend more gil per minute in most PTs than most penny-pinchers out there do. Go find a way to make better gil, I suck at making money and I can keep up.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

The next SMN adjustment seems like practically a bug fix. Not that it isn't welcome, but I'm still waiting for them to do more to help SMN play its main job a greater percentage of the time.

Plainly, this.

[TheGrandMom]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

You know I don't mind melees not bringing an assload of echos with them when doing imps. It's understandable that there are money limitations and space limitations too for some. But you should have at least a stack on you if you are subbing nin or can cast. I don't expect you to use them all the time but there are times that it helps. One pt I had didn't have a stunner, the imp resisted silence a gazillion times, and went on a -ga spree. Well I DS Curaga II'd cause they were getting owned, the imp comes to me, the melee follow, the imp silences us all, beats the snot out of me and I can't cast, and then I die. Well a couple melee didn't bring echos and they died. The others beat the imp and the dead melee bitched me out for not silena'ing them before I died....... When I brought up echos they told me its my job to support them and not theirs to waste money because I suck. Ya....so....those echos would have saved their miserable lives and saved my blist from overflowing with assholeishness.

A good mage does their best but sometimes things just go bad and you need that little bit of help. Having those meds on you can save YOU grief and not just the mage. I am one of the poorest dang people playing this game and even I carry oils, powders, echos, and antidotes. And to top it off, I mainly play mage jobs and I still carry all of that!

When it comes to endgame stuff, you had better be carrying the meds you need for whatever event you are doing. There is no "its the mages responsibility" crap when it comes to that. It's EVERYONE'S responsibility that an event is won and having the right meds helps with that.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

Plainly, this.

Well, YM, how many pet adjustments did BST and DRG get before they got new JAs and Traits?

Plenty. We didn't understand the reasons behind the initial pet adjustments, but they eventually built up to something that made sense.

They're taking the same approach with SMN. And its the right approach, so no SMN should be complaining right now.

SMN as has one pact adjustment, a new JA and now will be receiving another pact adjustment. Baby steps before big changes.

But I don't expect things will ever change to the point where people just invite summoners to summon. That's bullshit and most of us realize that because SMNs are there for more than just massive damage. They're there to buff and heal, too.

And personally, I want to see more done in the buffing direction than damage because the way buffs are issued is just awkward. They're fixing part of what makes it awkward, but they need to fix the buff radius on avatars to something much larger so SMNs don't have to run around all willy-nilly. They need to fix the potency and buff duration of some buffs to be more comprable to what BRD, COR and SCH can put out.

SMN eventually gets the damage role they seek, so I don't think that's an issue, the job's weaknesses lie in places most SMNs don't want to admit because they just want to be uber DDs.

[Malacite]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

SMN is a problem job. As the Dev team has said, it's simply too easy to make it over powered if they tweak it. While I'm infinitely annoyed it's taken this long, I remain hopeful that they will finally come through on it.

I just wish it would be sooner rather than later.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

SMN is a problem job. As the Dev team has said, it's simply too easy to make it over powered if they tweak it. While I'm infinitely annoyed it's taken this long, I remain hopeful that they will finally come through on it.

I just wish it would be sooner rather than later.

See, negative feedback does work! I made fun of Mal for his emo SMN fits and now he's posting with sanity about SMN!

[Nuriko]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

See, negative feedback does work! I made fun of Mal for his emo SMN fits and now he's posting with sanity about SMN!

...we're all going to die, aren't we?