Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

[Armando]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

If your shtick is to accept everything they do, every time, with no disclaimers, and be completely happy with it, more power to you. What I don't get is why you bother getting so frustrated with everyone else here for speculating and discussing other alternatives. The only harm it does you is the harm you let it do. Why put yourself through something that makes you so unhappy?

Come on, it's Kailea. 7/10 Kailea posts end in -.- even when they're not about the game.

Highly off-topic, but something that has always bugged the crap outta me. If Soulflayers are the transformed state of a Blue Mage who lost control of it's humanity....then why the hell are they all Black Mages? Every single Soulflayer, NMs included, are all Blm, yet the entire concept around their story is that they were once human and once Blus who let the "beast within" take control. Hell, it was even rumored that Flans were once Blus as well but again, they're all Blms. To me, it just makes more sense that at least some of these mobs would be Blus. If Mamools can be Blus, then why the hell can't mobs who used to be Blus be Blus.

I'm just grasping at straws here but I don't think monsters can cast Blue Magic. Flans don't exactly qualify as a rationalizing, beastman-like race. Soulflayers may be humanoid in form but hell, but that doesn't necessarily make them any more rational than a gorilla. If a hecteyes (which isn't even arcana so it doesn't have that excuse going for it) can cast Black Magic I suppose just about any beast in the game qualifies for it. Only the 5 races and the beastmen seem to have any sense of higher intelligence associated with the more exotic jobs (well, ok, and Undead, but they were formerly living members of the 5 races as well.)

Tl;dr who cares? Only SE knows. Maybe they didn't even think it all the way through. That happens sometimes when you create a world of fiction.

I also totally forgot that Colibri don't have casting time, so Fast Cast wouldn't be much of an indicator. The only way to confirm RDMness besides their stats would be the presence of MDB, which the Wiki claims they have 10% of. That would be about right for a RDM - but the Wiki is stupid and doesn't make the distinction between MDB and Magic Damage Reduction -X%.

There IS a difference between the two, though, so it's not impossible to double-check. MDB only applies to things that are affected by MAB. Things like SC damage completely bypass MDB but are still affected by Shell and mob's inherent Magic Damage -X% statistics. If Colibri resist spell damage by 10% but SC damage goes unresisted, then they truly have MDB and not some Magic Damage -X% trait.

[Ziero]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

But that's the thing though, Soulflayers are highly intelligent and sentient monsters, some of which are "highly trained and experienced". And it's a proven fact that they were once humans as you fight one after watching it transform. It's just one of those things that makes no sense to me. =(

[Armando]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

But that's the thing though, Soulflayers are highly intelligent and sentient monsters, some of which are "highly trained and experienced".

Don't take the wiki's flavor text as canon. They had some nonsense in the Puk family page about them possibly being bloodsuckers since they drop Chimera Blood, when the reason they drop Chimera Blood is that they're chimeras themselves (as evidenced from the description of a Puk Wing: "A lightweight, transparent wing from a variety of chimera.") Wiki flavor text is just that - fan-made flavor text.

There are "highly trained and experienced" skeleton and ghost BLMs, that doesn't make them sentient or intelligent. Then again I'm not too far into ToAU missions so I wouldn't know how smart the Soulflayer you fight is.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

Those are absolutely horrid arguments. Sch's AoE status heals are inferior to Whm because they can use charges for something better? Well guess what, so can Whm. Using Divine Veil means you can't Divine Seal a cure for another 10 minutes.

I didn't say our status cures were inferior, I said we have better things to do with Accession than use them on status cures. Damage mitigation is a big part of the game, why not use SCH to that end when you're playing a healer with it? I pass out status cures without Accession since I don't like blowing a charge on them.

WHM should never be using Divine Veil outside of Stona and things that you really need erase for, they should mostly be using DS for cures.

Of course, most WHMs I've seen will just cure any damn thing that lands on people. If a melee gets INT down, man we have got to get rid of that

And the reason Melees don't all sub /Dnc is because they're supposed to be doing Dmg. It's your job as the healer to heal the melees. And in a PT situation, something you yourself stressed in this very same topic, you shouldn't have to be self reliant when other people with jobs built specifically to do so can help you.

You're clearly not listening to the context here. In places like Dynamis-Jeuno, where they throw cannon-fodder mobs at people that spam status ailments there is absolutely no reason to leave the bulk of status cures on mages anymore in that particular situation except for poor strategy. Most SAMs I've seen in this situation use DNC because they're TP whores to start with and there's quite a few other jobs that could pull it off as well.

City fodder mobs are laughably weak, there's no reason not to sub /DNC most of the time. You'll still be using TP for weapon skill most of the time and mages can cure you, but you can at least micromanage your own status cures with /DNC and use a reraise item so we don't have to babysit your ass. I COR/DNC or will SCH/RDM in cities - its better than going /WHM.

Charges refresh in a minute at 70, Divine Veil takes 10 minutes to recharge. So even if you do choose to do something else with those Charges, you can still use those AoE heals AND do those other things far more often then Whm could. So while a a Sch can AoE Erase, then cast an Enhanced, AoE Cure IV, then AoE Stoneskin while their recast is less then a minute, Whm can only AoE a single status cure OR cast a single enhanced cure.

WHM still has superior Healing skill, don't bullshit here. There's a reason SCH doesn't get a bit of Cure potency gear and WHM and DNC do outside of Light Staff and that's Rapture. Even then, we're not quite a match. I have to blow two Strategm charges and a Cure IV at double the regular cost to get close to a WHM's curaga.

True, I could stack a Divine Seal on that myself, but usually there's little reason for us to be subbing WHM.

No matter how you try to color it, Sch got the far better end of that stick, even if they do have to be in a specific "Book" to do so.

So we're just going to ignore SCH's dependancy on Arts is the balance that justifies what they can do?

Still funny to mean that its WHM, RDM and SMN that are butthurt about SCH, but not BLMs. SCH actually gets closer to BLM in performance than they do any other job. If any job should be worried, it should be BLM, but they welcome us to manaburns with open arms because, like COR, we're also one of the few jobs in the game that can buff a BLM with something besides refresh.

Regarding Soulflayers.

Flayers are something Final Fantasy ripped from Dungeons and Dragons ages ago.

A wizard who loses his mind when exposed to the elements of the underworld would become a Flayer. Blue Mages who lose control basically have the same fate. Why don't they use Blue Magic? Well, I don't think SE intended to stick to any script but the traditional use of a flayer after that.

[Ziero]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

Don't take the wiki's flavor text as canon. They had some nonsense in the Puk family page about them possibly being bloodsuckers since they drop Chimera Blood, when the reason they drop Chimera Blood is that they're chimeras themselves (as evidenced from the description of a Puk Wing: "A lightweight, transparent wing from a variety of chimera.") Wiki flavor text is just that - fan-made flavor text.

There are "highly trained and experienced" skeleton and ghost BLMs, that doesn't make them sentient or intelligent. Then again I'm not too far into ToAU missions so I wouldn't know how smart the Soulflayer you fight is.

While I won't spoil anything, Soulflayers aren't just mindless mobs. And the fact that they do come from Blus but never cast and Blue Magic has always bugged the hell outta me.

I didn't say our status cures were inferior, I said we have better things to do with Accession than use them on status cures. Damage mitigation is a big part of the game, why not use SCH to that end when you're playing a healer with it? I pass out status cures without Accession since I don't like blowing a charge on them.

WHM should never be using Divine Veil outside of Stona and things that you really need erase for, they should mostly be using DS for cures.

The fact still remains, even if you *do* have to AoE a status cure, you still have 3 other charges left that you can use to do any of the other "10 things" that you deemed better. Whm on the other hand not only has to choose between AoE status cures or an Enhanced Cure, they have to do it at the cost of a 10 minute timer. Which you yourself point out as being wasteful....which is the entire reason people complain.

You're clearly not listening to the context here. In places like Dynamis-Jeuno, where they throw cannon-fodder mobs at people that spam status ailments there is absolutely no reason to leave the bulk of status cures on mages anymore in that particular situation except for poor strategy. Most SAMs I've seen in this situation use DNC because they're TP whores to start with and there's quite a few other jobs that could pull it off as well.

City fodder mobs are laughably weak, there's no reason not to sub /DNC most of the time. You'll still be using TP for weapon skill most of the time and mages can cure you, but you can at least micromanage your own status cures with /DNC and use a reraise item so we don't have to babysit your ass. I COR/DNC or will SCH/RDM in cities - its better than going /WHM.

Babysit? As a healer, that's pretty much the entire point of the job. If you're main healing and not watching the melee then what in the hell are you doing?

And no matter how "weak" the mobs are, if I had the choice of having 5 melee sub DD jobs to enhance their DD output while one healer was in charge of their status and HP or having 5 melee sub Dnc and fend for themselves while one healer did...whatever...I would go with the healer actually healing. I mean, I can understand if a Sam/Dnc was helping support a lone Sch or even Whm, but the fact that both Dnc and Sch can AoE heal status better then a Whm is even more reason for Divine Veil to have it's own, short, recast. Which, iirc, was the entire complaint in the first place. Why not give Whm a Divine Veil JA since two other jobs can do the same thing only better.

So we're just going to ignore SCH's dependancy on Arts is the balance that justifies what they can do?

If you're main healing as a Sch, why would you need to go into Dark Arts? Aspir? Maybe sleep? Unless it hit the fan, if you go into a roll knowing what you're needed to do, how often are you switching between books and Addendums?

Regarding Soulflayers.

Flayers are something Final Fantasy ripped from Dungeons and Dragons ages ago.

A wizard who loses his mind when exposed to the elements of the underworld would become a Flayer. Blue Mages who lose control basically have the same fate. Why don't they use Blue Magic? Well, I don't think SE intended to stick to any script but the traditional use of a flayer after that.

While I agree that FF stole flayers (and many other mobs) from D&D (but who hasn't?) and has generally kept them the same as they always been, right from the start SE pegged Soulflayers as being the unleashed form of long-time Blue Mages. I know it's not really a big deal, but it's always bugged the crap outta me that SE would set a story like that...and then ignore it completely. (yes, I know they've done it before, and those times bug me too!)

[Malacite]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

I'm just grasping at straws here but I don't think monsters can cast Blue Magic.

Other than Mamool Ja Mimers you mean? >.>

[Mhurron]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

Technically, Beastmen aren't monsters.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

If you're main healing as a Sch, why would you need to go into Dark Arts? Aspir? Maybe sleep? Unless it hit the fan, if you go into a roll knowing what you're needed to do, how often are you switching between books and Addendums?

If I go into a situation where I'm a healer, but still need access to Sleep II, then I'll be switching out to Dark Arts + Addendum: Black quite a bit. One could merit Enlightenment to get around this, but you'd still be facing cast, recast and MP penalties for doing so. And its only usable every five minutes at 5/5 at pretty worthless if its 1/5.

If I'm frequently reapplying Addendas, it will come at the cost of stratagem charges and it may be difficult to do AoE status cures on moment and a Sleep II the next. Either I can settle for the first Tier Sleep and hope it pans out or I switch arts, apply Addendum: Black and use Sleep II.

Constantly switching between arts is difficult, even with 5/5 Grimorie recast merits. And again, with 5/5 Enlightenment, you're still not getting much lee way.

For everything SCH can do, there's an opposing penalty. People seem content to ignore this very simple fact. I cannot do everything at once. RDM can heal, enfeeble sleep, nuke without switching roles. WHM can pretty much say the same thing, minus the nuking. SCH cannot do all of these without incuring a penalty.

A Dark Arts raise will cost me 30 more MP than average and have a longer recast. A Light Arts raise will be 15 MP cheaper with some time shaved off the recast.

I don't complain about my restrictions, I accept them as part of the deal. I get to do some really amazing things, but at the expense of limiting what I can do elsewhere.

[Ziero]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

And yet, even if you had to go from Dark Arts to Light Arts you could still AoE status cures faster and more frequently then Whm.

Yes, Sch has it's limits, but even with them, it's still has a better method for healing Status then Whm does. No one is saying to take away from Sch, they're saying give Whm something comparable because Divine Veil *sucks*.

[Balfree]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

That sounds like a good basis for an entirely new job rather then tweaks to the existing ones.

Yeah I think so too.

At first it was just gonna be a simple suggestion but then the ideas started popping up and I'm like WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE... and stuff.

[Vyuru]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

and I'm like WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE... and stuff.

/sniffle

FINALLY! Someone who understands what it means to be me!

[Karinya]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

Why not give Whm a Divine Veil JA since two other jobs can do the same thing only better.

What level do DNC get aoe status curing? I only know about the level 35 single-target one. (Or maybe you're referring to Spring Water?)

Personally, I think they should just give WHM -naga spells, starting a few levels above stona (thus all non-subbable) and continuing every few levels in the same order as the original -na series. Give them about the same casting cost/time/recast as accessioned na spells, but without needing any charges or abilities. White mages are supposed to be great at healing and status restoring - it's not only the job concept, but also a tradeoff for all the things they're bad at like melee and nuking. (Which are permanent disabilities, not temporary like arts switching.)

You could still use DV for effects that you were too low level to have the appropriate -naga spell for, or for Erase if it wasn't included.

[Malacite]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

Give them about the same casting cost/time/recast as accessioned na spells, but without needing any charges or abilities.

Just do them in the same way Protectra and Shellra are done, but otherwise I agree 100%.

[Firewind]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

The main problem with WHM not having AoE -na spells outside of a 10 minute timer is that the melees keep feeding the mob TP regardless of what you do. if you're burning something then that mob will get getting TP back faster than Maat. I've seen Soulflayers in Nyzul literally stand there spamming their TP moves because the melees were feeding the mobs TP constantly.

If a TP move that inflicts an AoE status pops up this forces WHMs to either burn a 10 minute recast JA and pray that either a Cure does need DSing or another AoE status effect comes up or spam -na spells or Erase.

Spamming Erase believe it or not is NOT good for the party as Erase produces a large amount of CE and WHMs having excessive CE when the tank is healthy is generally a bad idea in the majority of cases. Erase also costs about 30-something MP a cast so the costs very quickly add up if you have to spam it on the party multiple times. Spamming -na spells is counter productive as if you're spamming -na spells you are fulfilling your primary duty of curing. Nine times out of ten the AoE status effect is usually reapplied and when it's something like Paralyze, Slow, Blind or Petrify that is being spammed and can't just leave a party member with that status effect on.

Tha main argument here is why is does the premier healing class in the game have to rely on a 10 minute job recast timer while two jobs can AoE status cure many more times in the same 10 minutes and in a much, much more efficient manner to boot? If I was a DD or tank in a party I would think the SCH losing a strat that they will get back in 1 minute is a fair trade for risking a potential wipe due to a nasty AoE status effect. Yes AoE status cures aren't necessary for ANY job. WHMs and RDMs got along fine without them before SCH and DNC came along. But why is it that the dedicated healing class in the game can't do it?

[Kailea]

Re: Forthcoming Job Adjustments (i.e. vague developer details from JP button)

I know this is not a complete 100% solution... but bring your own meds...

people should not have to rely on the healer 100% even in parties.

As DRG/SAM I bring..
Antidote
Eye Drops

and as Mage or DRG/mage I bring...
Antidote
Eye Drops
Echo Drops
Yag drinks