A couple Enmity questions

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

I'm fairly aware of enmity works for the most part, but there are a couple cases I have some questions about. I'm also have tried talking a friend down from having enmity merits since they never use thier tank job. I suppose you could say its a "pet" endgame job for them, but they never play it so I don't see why they keep the merits.

They rationalized that thier +enmity merits would be useful for THF and BST... I'm just not seeing how, really. THF and BST can take and transfer enmity in thier own ways, sure, but that wouldn't apply to the constant +/-enmity from merits and gear, would it? To clarify, that +enmity merit would just apply to the THF and not the person they plug WS emity onto with Sneak Attack, right?

Additionally, they've taken interest in levelling SCH and RNG, both of which I can say from experience are enmity magnets if you're not careful with them. I'd actually would think you wouldn't want enmity merits if you had these jobs.

The other reason I'm asking is that, looking where both of my characters stand it seems that -enmity would benefit both. SCH, RDM, BST and RNG, COR, DNC will be the jobs they have. Where DNC is concerned, I'd actually like to not have to put too much into -enmity gear so I could prioritze Accuracy/Haste/Attack and not waste time or inventory on -enmity.

If negative enmity did affect my BST's Snarl in some way, maybe its justs best to not merit enmity in either direction.

[Nuriko]

Re: A couple Enmity questions

Given that the job is never played, I don't see much point (and a fair bit of harm) to +enmity. Safer by far to just stick with the + and -crit ones ... and -interrupt just might be a bit handy if either doesn't apply well. I'd say only merit enmity EITHER way if it's not going to hurt any of the jobs you'd like to focus on...

[Kittyneko]

Re: A couple Enmity questions

Well, I've had Enmity capped all the way while playing Red Mage, and now while playing Bard. It never bothered me that much.

Enmity does help with Thief's trick attack. When Thief uses Trick Attack, Thief will be the one generating the enemy, so yes enmity merits are helpful then.

Also, in emergency cases, the Enmity bonus helps keeping(Not getting) hate using Accomplice.

[Armando]

Re: A couple Enmity questions

Enmity does help with Thief's trick attack. When Thief uses Trick Attack, Thief will be the one generating the enemy, so yes enmity merits are helpful then.

I've never actually seen any proof of this. Care to share some?

[Kittyneko]

Re: A couple Enmity questions

I've noticed a huge change using the well-known Crow Jupon Set and normal gear and merits. How to proove this.. it's just something I know by experience.

And well, I'm not really up for proving it.. so I'm fine with you taking my statement as an opinion. An opinion from a person who played Thief and this game a lot, though is able to make mistakes like everyone else.

[Cerealkiller]

Re: A couple Enmity questions

I know im new to these forums, but i saw this and just had to reply.
+enmity is horriable for any DD jobs (assuming you do good dmg), i probably wouldnt want it for my rdm either, cure IV is alot of hate without a good tank.
As for your proof of enmity merits working for thf, i dont have any screenshots anymore to prove this, but i used to do sky with a thf who had full enmity merits since he was usually nin if he wasnt on thf. Typically our tanks would stand on each side for sata, and while he used a str setup compaired to my dex setup, dmg was negligable since regardless of dmg his sata would always place more hate, even in that rare instance when i did drop a 900 sata ws and his was much lower. Our dmg was pretty much the same on avg, but the enmity merits would be about the only real difference. So accept that as proof or dont, it was from about a yr ago and i lost the SSs i had from then lol

[Kittyneko]

Re: A couple Enmity questions

Well hello Cerealkiller. I believe you're Aksannyi's hubby?

To support Cerealkiller's opinion, he's on my server and I know him to be one of those players that play Final Fantasy XI at the highest possible level.

[Aksannyi]

Re: A couple Enmity questions

I wouldn't suggest hubby. I might get /slapped for that. Boyfriend onry - hubby was ex. And now I have to watch what I say about people we both know. XD

Also, lolmadhybrid. XD

[Yellow Mage]

Re: A couple Enmity questions

Y'know, THF AF has +Enmity on it, so . . . you never know.

[Akashimo]

Re: A couple Enmity questions

Generally, unless a thf is doing insane damage over time and SA's for higher spike, the enmity+ isn't that noticable to the thief himself unless constantly spams collaborator. Course during that, spamming TA would also help control then. So just a matter of opinion for enmity merits.

Bst, I would assume the pet gets hate ability would zero the masters, even when having extra enmity until a hit lands. So I guess that would also include merit/gear.

[Cerealkiller]

Re: A couple Enmity questions

idk i can pull hate without collaborator or accomplice off pld and nin tanks, it really depends on the mob, the thing is when u get the hate its keeping it, i myself have no enmity merits but i can hold it long enough to lose 6 shadows lol, it really depends how hard the nin or pld is trying, cause anyone can get hate when no ones really tryin to hold it lol.

Also, yes thf af does have enmity, also check out the sexy relic accesory cape with enmity, its all for placing more hate with TA, however you cannot use collaborator or accomplice and place that hate, only the hate generated in the single TA, all other enmity is not included.

p.s ty for the welcome :D

[Ameroth]

Re: A couple Enmity questions

Speaking of enmity merits, I jsut recently hit 75PLD and have been meritting my ass off. Is it worth it for a PLD to merit enmity at all? I don't have much trouble holding hate in most parties, but I've come to realize most parties for me will have DDs that will peel hate from me with most weapon skills and I'm really only there for first voke and to try and hold hate.

I'd rather merit something like MP and sword skill, but are enmity merits worth it for a PLD75?

[Cerealkiller]

Re: A couple Enmity questions

if you plan on making it your main, and more to the point plan on going for the best gear for it, YES absolutely, it will help you maintain hate, but you still have to do all the things you do to build and maintain hate, you cant just expect voke every 30sec to do the job, so you throw in all your jas and flash and cures, with the enmity merits it makes those things more effective

[Armando]

Re: A couple Enmity questions

I'll have to take you guys' word for it for now, but I still don't quite buy it. Enmity Merits are only +4 Enmity - and that's only a 4% increase in enmity. There's no way for anyone to notice such a small difference (though noticing the effects of the Crow Set wouldn't be out of the question), and it's also impossible for a SATA that did "much less damage" to plant more hate on the person just because of an extra 4% hate.

Ameroth: I don't consider it worth it, but that's just me. I'd rather get +Crit merits and +Sword merit firsts, and even after that I would still take -Enemy Crit rate over Enmity merits.

[Ziero]

Re: A couple Enmity questions

Kanican - Enmity Testing (Part I)

Isn't this basically the best reference for how hate works available?

It all seems to make sense to me, as Voke could never pull hate on a slept mob and knowing what is stated there would explain it...

Personally though, wouldn't crit merits be better then enmity? I was always under the assumption that messing with Enmity was more harmful then useful. I know as both Thf and War, there are times when I want hate and times when I don't.

Also, any hate generated by a hit from a thf using TA, including any +enmity, will be transferred over to whoever it lands on.