Post your job adjustment wish lists!

[Rain_Blade]

Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!

BSTs and SMNs generally don't care at all if their pets die, or even use it to their advantage, the PUP is somewhere in the middle.

Depends.

If I'm doing a mission that may require my avatar to be left out, I care.

If I'm in a party, I shouldn't care, because it's not suppose to be out (in today's case) unless it's an emergency to hold hate long enough for the tank to heal himself/herself...itself.

If the pet is protecting me or someone for awhile, I care.

If I'm soloing, I definitly care.

And well...if my pet dies, I have to resummon it lol and I'd like for it to keep living as long as it can knowing that it will die soon =(

To be honest, I can't really think of many moments of when I don't care if my pet dies knowing that it's taking hits for me or someone else.

For Pup, I wouldnt really say "in the middle." Knowing the job that they are, everyone would definitly need for them to have their pet alive because their damage together is great but if the pup dies, the party (and/or the pup) will not be happy about the slowness in fights.

I don't know too much about bst. Hopefully I didn't misunderstand you. o.O But I care

[DakAttack]

Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!

And as Icemage pointed out, SMN has been broken from day 1 (originally it only had carbuncle until Zilart came out shortly after) and it's taken them forever to admit to their screw up, much like with Rranged Attacks and Call Wyvern.

If I'm not mistaken Summoner was a job released with Zilart.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!

I keep Feba on filters just as a general rule that he's going to say something smarmy or largely uninformed about the game because its need so long since he played. (See comment about BST and SMN: Like hell I use my pets like tissue, I want them to stay alive).

CoP Rings are level 30 because it fits in with the level cap scheme of the missions and, additionally, the rings benefits grow over the course of levelling up or doing those caps with friends. Also, SE put lots of reasons to go back to these zones, such as pop NMs and the like. Why put me through all these capped missions and give me a ring I can't use until i'm 72? THAT would be stupid.

And they're pretty damn good rings, it saves a lot of hassle in rebuying rings for missions and levelling up, not to mention they offer a compilation of stats you cannot get from any other rings out there.

Likewise, the ToA Rings work much teh same way. Most of the content in ToA is 50+, Assaults are doable by players as early as level 50 and on top of the great stats you get from them, there are also stats for using them within Assaults.

Given the structure of these missions and what you're sometimes made to work with, I think the way these rings are fashioned brilliantly and encourage people to take up new jobs and return to this content.

[Malacite]

Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!

I found the ToAU rings to be very lackluster in comparison to the CoP/Zilart rewards to be honest.

And SMN was released just prior to Zilart in a patch I believe (I still remember seeing the JP POL website before the NA one came up, and it showed pics of DRG SAM and NIN but no SMN)

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!

The only dumbness in obtaining the CoP rings is how much of an utter joke SE has turned CoP into. I'm glad I beat it when it was still a challenge ; ;

Missed this one.

You beat them when Snoll Tzar and Tenzen Fights were a matter of luck. If you want to gripe about anything, gripe about what a joke the Promyvion zones are to navigate now. Nothing else about CoPs aside from those, Snoll Tzar and Tenzen has changed. The majority of the missions are still challenging, if you think they're super-easy now, I encourage you to lead a group from start to finish again.

Promy bosses didn't get easier, navigating the promys did.
Mammets are still a pain in the ass.
Ouryu still wipes groups.
Mithra Trackers has not changed.
Mine Shaft BCNM is still the same.
Ultima/Omega battles the same.
Snoll Tzar still can be a matter of luck if it doesn't Berzerk.
Tenzen now just gets beaten senseless.
Everything in Chapter 8 is the same.

BC items are now AHable, the forced farming of the items was rather stupid to start with.

I've experienced the before and after. CoPs are still the toughest set of missions in the game.

[Malacite]

Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!

You beat them when Snoll Tzar and Tenzen Fights were a matter of luck. I

Luck nothing, the group I was with kicked the asses of those BCs because we planned it out well in advance. In fact, after promyvion the only BC I didn't go 1/1 on was Promathia.

We raped Snoll because our PLD hit invincible right off the bat and then used his salt while the rest of us went apeshit on the Snoll (RNG/WAR using guns and 2 BLMs). We came prepared to deal out teh spike dmg. And SE did make the later missions a good chunk easier when they adjusted the items and such. I still maintain CoP is not that hard, it just requires a lot more premeditation on our part. Not like lolZM that was just absurd (you can beat it in a matter of hours with a good group, barring DM of course. Though I gotta admit ZM17 was actually a bit of a challenge since we didn't have a RDM with Slow II or a BRD)

Gessho wasn't that tough either, 1/1 on pretty much every BC in ToAU except 42 and 44. Alexander took me 13 tries @_@ but that was largely due to the fact that everyone was still struggling at the time to figure out how to even beat the BLU, never mind Alex and his BS 1k+ heals every 1-2 minutes. Now there are solid strats against him and I have friends who went 1/1 and 1/3 > <;;


So far WotG has been lolZM, but I'm hoping that's going to change fast. Please, please let Xarcabard and Castle Z be epic > <

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!

Luck nothing

Thousands of players would argue otherwise. Especially those who tried to beat it before you did. Some people get the run where it Berzerked, some didn't.

You got the run where it zerked. I know people who tried several times before they got a run where it zerked.

It was luck.

But you think the whole thing comes apart because a couple of BCNMs changed, but then, the world came apart when they readjusted two-handers, too.

[Malacite]

Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!

Believe what you want BBQ. If I had a recording of the video I'd gladly share it but I don't. It's not my problem if others can't make up for their short comings.

It wasn't fucking luck, so please shut up about that. It took me a good 10 minutes just to convince our RNG to /WAR and use guns (he was originally going to /NIN and crossbow...). We spent another 5-10 double checking our battle strategy just outside the BC. We knew what to do.

PLD WAR WHM BLM BLM RNG was our set up, and it worked wonderfully. I honestly can't recall if it berserked or not, I just remember that our PLD died at some point because it did nothing but spam that insane AoE that it has (how I didn't is still a mystery to me given that I was right at the frontlines with him...that my friend, would be the only piece of "luck" in the whole thing.) The changes to promyvion, some of the items (and I'm positive a few of the bosses, could be wrong on that one though) and the removal of the EXP penalty from the BCs = wussyfying the whole experience IMO. Now if people die in a BC it's not as big a deal anymore.

[Feba]

Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!

(See comment about BST and SMN: Like hell I use my pets like tissue, I want them to stay alive).

I didn't say you used them as tissue, and the 'not caring if they die' bit is being misunderstood. What I mean is, if a BST or SMN pet dies, they can easily get another one in most situation, DRG is not so lucky. BSTs and SMNs sacrificing their pets is almost routine, whereas a DRG would hardly ever send their wyvern to slaughter.

CoP Rings are level 30 because it fits in with the level cap scheme of the missions and, additionally, the rings benefits grow over the course of levelling up or doing those caps with friends. Also, SE put lots of reasons to go back to these zones, such as pop NMs and the like. Why put me through all these capped missions and give me a ring I can't use until i'm 72? THAT would be stupid.

And they're pretty damn good rings, it saves a lot of hassle in rebuying rings for missions and levelling up, not to mention they offer a compilation of stats you cannot get from any other rings out there.

I'm not saying COP rings are a bad idea, I have no problem with them, just as I have no problem with SMN being a job for people that already have another job at endgame. The fact is, though, that a COP ring is something that you can USE at level 30, but you can't really unlock until you already have a job over 70, which is the closest thing to SMN I could think of. I understand perfectly that COP rings are level variable to fit COP level caps-- that's not the point.

as a general rule that he's going to say something smarmy or largely uninformed about the game because its need so long since he played.

At least one of us has an excuse.

[DakAttack]

Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!

Just the basic differences in job mechanics between Summoner, Beastmaster, and Dragoon suggest that both Smn and Bst have throwaway style pets. The closest I can get to throwing away my wyvern is using Super Jump and hitting dipmode.

[Malacite]

Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!

I still think the overall power level of the avatars is too low compared to the other pet jobs. SMN is at the bottom of the list in terms of physical prowess vs pet.

A DRG without it's wyvern is still a deadly fighter. A BST is like a toned down WAR (and to be honest, with the right pet is borderline broken) and even PUP can fight decently.

SMN has zero combat traits to aid itself in battle, combined with the lowest physical stats (HP, STR, DEX AGI evasion etc) and poor gear selection (for combat) basically leaving the job SOL and JWF against pretty much any mob EP or higher by end game unless maybe if you're /DNC or something.

Given that the job is so damn weak in comparison to the other pet jobs, I don't see why avatars shouldn't get a boost. Just because they have a low recast is not an excuse. You still have to stand there and spend the time & MP to get said avatar back out and hope the mob doesn't kill you between the time you try to get it back and transfer hate back to your avatar/spirit. I'm sure anyone else here who's tried soloing on SMN knows that a lot can go wrong in those few precious seconds > <;

[Feba]

Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!

BST is like a toned down WAR (and to be honest, with the right pet is borderline broken)

Yeah. Damned good thing BradyGames managed to give them such a negative opinion off the bat as a solo job to get them stuck in that rut, or they would've been gimped so hard that RNG would feel sorry for them.

SMN, in FFXI, never really struck me as a job that was meant to do damage. It's not just because SMN don't do it and what they have is weak, it's just that they seem so heavily inclined towards balancing buffing and using occasional damage things. Closer to an RDM or BLU than the WHM/BRD role it's stuck in.

[Phanex]

Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!

1- WHM gets auto-refresh @ lvl 40
2- SMN gets auto-refresh II @lvl 60
3- WAR Maybe an auto-regen for Tanking Duties @ 40
4- BLM Conserve MP II @ 65
5- RDM Attack Bonus I at least

I know my wish list might cause more harm than good, but these are things that can make these jobs a bit easier to play as. Well except maybe SMN, then they’d be picked for full time healing with so much mp to use. But meh…

I can’t think of anything for DRK, SAM, DRG, or NIN, and the other jobs I barely lvl.

[Malacite]

Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!

The thing is, I look at SMN as a long-time fan of the FF series and while I really don't like to come off as a fanboy, there is the inescapable fact that this is a Final Fantasy Game.

Online or not, I don't care for one of my all-time favorite classes to be robbed of one of the things it's best known/used for, which is wiping the floor with mobs at the expense of loads of MP.

The problem with FFXI though is that most of the time you're facing a single enemy, where as SMN was always meant to deal with mass groups (when not buffing or healing. That's always been a big part of the job too and SE's done a mostly fine job with the buffs at least) and jobs like BLM were better at taking down single, hard to kill targets (i.e. bosses and other high def mobs lime slimes)

SE has always changed the mechanics of how summoning works in each title from 6 and on, but they've always managed to maintain the proper level of power/coolness until now. Granted it's probably the hardest job in the game to balance (NIN and RDM aside) because by nature the job's meant to be proficient in just about everything.

The problem lies in giving the job enough of a power boost without driving it to the point where everyone just plays SMN and forgoes the other jobs. That's why I say SE should actually raise the MP cost of avatars. Not their perp costs (those should be lowered), but the cost of pacts and to actually summon them (increase the time it takes to call them out too maybe?) in order to offset the relative power of their abilities.

That's how SMN's always been, except maybe in X. (Aeons were rather broken IMO, though their offensive magic sucked ass just like in FFXI > <) You call them out to wipe out big groups (Ifrit), Protect the party from damage (Golem), Raise (Phoenix) or really put the hurt on bosses. (Bahamut) But you go to the well too often and you soon find yourself out of MP.


In a nut shell, I'd like to see it so that it's not a huge drain on MP to keep your avatar out to do whatever (DD, Tank, Heal) but rather putting the emphasis on careful use of MP on pacts. Putting all the pacts on their own timers wouldn't hurt either.

I mean, if I could hit Healing Ruby as often as say a Cure I/II that'd be sweet. Then /WHM could be used more for the status spells as opposed to whoring out the cures. We'd be healing through our avatars and not our subjob. Don't go saying that'd be broken either. Avatars can take a decent hit, but they still have less HP than we do so if you go BP happy that's going to leave you low on MP, and possibly with an angry mob in your face once your avatar is down and out.

While I"m on the subject, wouldn't a provoke BP be awesome?

There's a lot of things SE could do really, I'd just like to actually see them do something already.

[Ziero]

Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!

I still think the overall power level of the avatars is too low compared to the other pet jobs. SMN is at the bottom of the list in terms of physical prowess vs pet.

A DRG without it's wyvern is still a deadly fighter. A BST is like a toned down WAR (and to be honest, with the right pet is borderline broken) and even PUP can fight decently.

SMN has zero combat traits to aid itself in battle, combined with the lowest physical stats (HP, STR, DEX AGI evasion etc) and poor gear selection (for combat) basically leaving the job SOL and JWF against pretty much any mob EP or higher by end game unless maybe if you're /DNC or something.

Given that the job is so damn weak in comparison to the other pet jobs, I don't see why avatars shouldn't get a boost. Just because they have a low recast is not an excuse. You still have to stand there and spend the time & MP to get said avatar back out and hope the mob doesn't kill you between the time you try to get it back and transfer hate back to your avatar/spirit. I'm sure anyone else here who's tried soloing on SMN knows that a lot can go wrong in those few precious seconds > <;

Which is funny, because Smn still seem to be able to solo just as well as all those other Pet jobs.

Smns pets can buff better then any other pet, deal more burst damage *on command* then any other pet, be called, killed then called again faster then any other pet and on top of all that stuff just with their pet they can sub Whm and be a damn fine healer.

If a Pup's pet dies, it can be gone for 20 minutes

If a Drg's pet dies, it can be gone for 20 minutes

When a Bst has no pets around that can be charmed, they're reliant on a 5 minute JA and pets they have to pay for.

When a Smn's pet dies, they can call them *near instantly* as long as they have MP.

Where as you point out, other jobs can still be ok without a pet in a party (because if they're soloing without a pet, they're dead.) they also have to deal with much more restrictions on how often they can call their pet. While Smns have *total* control over when they call their pet, when they release their pet and when they resummon it. The lack of physical stats for a Smn is in no way shape or form an unbalanced disadvantage to the job. Pups, Bst and Drgs are melees who can summon pets to their aid and have fairly little control over what they do. Smn is a mage who summons a pet to their aid and tells it *everything* it should do.

And it's certainly not the Avatar's abilities on their own that are "too low compared to the other pet jobs" because Avatars are some of the strongest pets. Wyverns can't heal on command, only when certain conditions, including low HP and proper SJ, are met. Bst pets can't buff pt members *at all*, let alone once a minute with no TP. And Pup's automatons can't bust out hate free, TP free, TP-less dmg once *every* minute on command and have no negative effect on anyone in the pt including the Automaton themself.

Smn is a very unique and very powerful job, but it's certainly not all about the damage. And infact, up until FFVII, Summon was never a pure DD, but a mix of Dmg and Support abilities. So their roll as Support and Damage Dealer in this game certainly fits with their history as the same class.

However, I do think Avatars and Spirits could use some tweaks, I certainly do NOT think it is anywhere near as big a problem as you make it out to be.