Post your job adjustment wish lists!

[Feba]

Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!

I'm not sure of your experience with Dragoon, but I can't count on one hand how many times I've had a party in Bibiki Bay where the first goblin tossed a bomb and dropped her.

I only got mine up to 37 or so, but I feel your pain. Had that happen on too many occasions fighting goblins and flies. You can imagine how much fun I had in Gustav.

Definitely agree on your suggestions. Would also be interesting to have an ability replace spirit link-- instead of transferring HP from the DRG to the Wyvern, something that would make HP levels equal, be that averaging the health, or bringing the lowest up to the highest (would be useful to be able to use your Wyvern as a health reserve in some situations, too)

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!

Anybody who has no problem leveling Summoner already has another job at 75. Period.

You can wave all of your Carby Mitts and Fenrirs and Diaboloses all you want, but who honestly has those without already having a higher-leveled job? Everybody know's Summoner can do some pretty powerful stuff at endgame, but getting there is far from newbie-friendly.

Summoner at endgame only needs a few tweaks at most: before that, it needs a flippin' overhauling.

Also, ultimately, I would like to see Scholar evolve in to what people have been treating Red Mage like, whereas I want to see Red Mage become more of a front-line caster (as S-E expressed their desire in doing).

[Feba]

Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!

ym, as I recall it, SMN as a job is really made for the people already at endgame.

I mean, look at how it was at release, no minifights. You *had* to do the Lv60+ battles in order to have any real usefulness. There's really not a lot in SMN that's lowbie friendly; even the minifights can be hard if you aren't well prepared.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!

ym, as I recall it, SMN as a job is really made for the people already at endgame.

I mean, look at how it was at release, no minifights. You *had* to do the Lv60+ battles in order to have any real usefulness. There's really not a lot in SMN that's lowbie friendly; even the minifights can be hard if you aren't well prepared.

Well, that's dumb.

[Feba]

Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!

Not any dumber than having items you can use at low levels, but have to be high level to obtain (COP rings, for example)

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!

I disagree. An entire job which requires you to already have a high leveled job to play effectively is on a whole other level of dumbness beyond that of the COP Rings.

[Feba]

Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!

By that logic, what's the point of extra jobs at all? Why not have all jobs available from the start?

SMN is a job that's made for players that already have another job at high levels, same as other extra jobs are made for players that already have another job in mid levels. SE was gracious to not set the unlock level to 60, and to introduce the minifights.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!

By that logic, what's the point of extra jobs at all? Why not have all jobs available from the start?

30 != High level (no matter how lazy I am to getting there . . . )

SMN is a job that's made for players that already have another job at high levels, same as other extra jobs are made for players that already have another job in mid levels. SE was gracious to not set the unlock level to 60, and to introduce the minifights.

And again, I must say you're nuts. What point does S-E have in designing a job specifically for players who already have high levels in other jobs?

[Feba]

Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!

Yes, why is it that it's ok to have jobs that are only available to mid-level players but not newbies? How many times have you seen someone come on the forum wanting to be a Dark Knight or a Ninja out of the gate, but they have to level to over 30 (which requires leveling at least two jobs to over lv15) to get them. Why is it ok to force them to level jobs they don't care about at the start of the game, but not force someone who wants to level a special job past that point?

What point does S-E have in designing a job specifically for players who already have high levels in other jobs?

Why not? Why shouldn't there be jobs that are inclined towards higher level players? There are areas. Quests. Missions. Specialized armor. Plenty of stuff isn't available to lower level players. +1 armor is only really available to people with a lot of money to burn, certainly not someone on their first job.

And again, why is requiring someone to have a high level job for a single job in the game, which quite a few people would tell you has been left gimp by SE for a long time, such a bad thing compared to requiring midlevels for the majority of jobs?

Heck, it's not even that out of place for expansion jobs-- DRG, SAM, and NIN all require players in the 40-50 level range or higher to clear parts of their quest. BLU, COR, and iirc PUP all require going into fairly high level dangerous areas to unlock, although they're kind enough not to include fighitng. I'm not familiar with DNC and SCH quests obviously, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see they also require things beyond the ability of a lv30.

Heck, iirc, the ice effect for SMN can't be obtained in Qufim, which means the only places where you can go for it are Xarcabard and glacier, neither of which is friendly to low levels (you CAN get it in Batallia, if you don't mind growing old and having a family before you ever get it, I suppose)


Why is it so bad that some jobs are inclined towards people with lv40, 50, 60, or higher on another job? Isn't that the entire point of having extra jobs that you don't have unlocked from the get-go?

[Malacite]

Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!

Originally Posted by Pteryx View Post
RDM: OK, so enfeebling accuracy starts acting screwy at the top? RDM's nukes aren't worth the MP spent on them? Swapping out staves for a sword makes your spell accuracy go down the tubes? There's a simple, appropriate solution to all three problems: give RDM Magic Accuracy Bonus traits. This could even make RDM more attractive as a subjob.

If SE truly wants RDM to be "used more as magical swordsmen", though, they need to do more than just make our buff cycle even longer; they have to make it so that for us, spellcasting and sword-swinging can be done at the same time. Give us a job trait, nice and subbable to make it catch the eye of those BLUs and DRKs too. Standing back and using staves would still mean better spells, but if we're extra-accurate elven bladesinger-alikes, then us stepping out front instead wouldn't be such a ridiculous notion in the right situation.

Another way us meleeing could be made situationally useful would be to give us Enstatus spells roughly as accurate as our normal enfeebles. While this may sound bizzare, consider this: What would be a better way of sticking Silence on Kirin -- spending time and MP over and over again from the back lines until it finally lands, or spending time and MP once and daggerburning Kirin until it sticks? The latter would certainly be faster, more MP-efficient, and would leave the RDM freer to react to problems. Basically, balance things such that Enstatuses are a better idea on magic-resistant mobs than the regular spells are. The ability to enfeeble colibri by this method is also a plus.

This is exactly why I wanted but apparently there aren't many others who the job as much as I did in FFV.

EDIT: http://www.ffxionline.com/forums/sum...ate-ideal.html

SMN:

What I've said before

*sigh* may as well get my rant on (got nothing else to do) Also, I don't want to hear any crap about balance issues. Some of my ideas may be going too overpowering, but such has always been the nature of SMN and I don't understand why SE shies away from it. SMN should wield immense power (they summon gods!!!) but at a cost (Fragile body and intensive MP).

I've always loved how in the previous games SMN was so powerful, but also required careful use of their MP lest you be left with naught but a fragile little mage. A veritable glass cannon (more so than BLM)

More Variance in Avatars:

- Seeing as Ifrit is the god of fire, and fire governs STR, why does Ifrit not deal the most physical damage? At least out of the current avatars anyway? The same should really apply to the other avatars. It would make them that much more unique and flavorful, and really give SMN more versatility.

Ifrit (STR + DD/enmity) Titan (VIT + Physical Def) Garuda (AGI + Speed) Ramuh (DEX + Critical Hits) Leviathan (MND + Magic Def) Shiva (INT + Magic AttacK) Carbuncle (CHR(?) + Healing)... Fenrir and Diabolos are bit harder to place since Darkness is a bit of an enigma and the only stat it pertains to is MP, but you get the idea.

No tanks seeking? Have a SMN whip out Titan or Ifrit and try it that way. Ifrit would follow the kill or be killed strategy given that should be offensive oriented (making him good for burn set ups), while Titan would last much longer due to his defensive nature but also generate less enmity.

I think this would be awesome, since the SMN would have to be very careful in regards to what the party does and how long their avatar lasts. If they're not careful or don't put enough distance between them an the mob, well, they're gonna end up dead unless the PT does something. People want a new and unique way to tank? There, I just gave it to you.


Summoning Magic Skill:

- This is probably one of the biggest issues SMN has. This skill does jack shit. No one bothers with spirits in parties, and IMO, requiring more skill than your current skill cap to get any kind of performance boost out of blood pacts is an outright insult.

Why doesn't SE change it so that an Avatar's stats and performance scale more appropriately according to skill level as opposed to just SMN level? This goes double for Blood Pacts. A lv 75 SMN with capped skill and one with much less should not both do the same or similar damage with their blood pacts. That's BS.


Blood Pacts:

- The bread and butter of the job. Why oh why SE do so many of them suck horse cock? Tier 2 and 4 nukes well before BLM gets them and they are out damaged by said BLM with spells of lower tiers? WTF is that? Rolling Thunder, Warcry and Frost Armor are all pretty damn useless. In fact, a lot of the damaging BP's pre-70 don't even match the damage of your average weapon skill.

If we're going to spend the MP to summon our avatars (possibly even *gasp* keep them out) and then spend more MP for special attacks, how about some bang for our buck? Why the hell should we have to wait until 70 to do any real damage? (And even then most Melee can easily out damage them either through DoT or other abilities and enhancements. Never mind the crazy MP cost of the 70 BPs) The fact that they can hit HNMs for good dmg is a crap excuse
.

WHM v.2

- This is my biggest gripe of all with SMN in this game. Being relegated to subbing WHM and main healing for any chance of decent EXP in a party setting sucks. period. The lack of being able to DD or other party functions aside, it's not even so much the main healing aspect.

It's that we basically act as a second WHM with a bigger MP pool with a cute little neon squirrel and his friends. Why not just level WHM then? I think that Carbuncle should undergo a massive rehauling. Let Alexander (if we ever get him) bring the Light Elemental smack down (as he damn well should).

Carbuncle's always been a support avatar, let's keep him that way. I'd like his Astral Flow changed back to Ruby Light or some variation of it, but then that'd screw up the Mini-Forks pretty badly (Good Job SE...)

So for now, how about we buff up his support and healing abilities. I don't mind tossing the occasional cure as a SMN, but if I'm going to main heal I think it would be a lot more fun and interesting if I could do that via Carbuncle.

Separating all blood pacts into individual timers would be a huge help. But in lieu of that, I propose we pump up his healing pacts. Maybe add a Regen Effect (that goes up with TP) to Healing Ruby so that people aren't dying inbetween pacts. ANYTHING that encourages keeping the little guy out and using him rather than lolCures to keep the party alive. You know, like a summoner.


Strategic use of MP and pacts should be the focus of SMN and not whoring out Cures.

[Icemage]

Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!

And again, I must say you're nuts. What point does S-E have in designing a job specifically for players who already have high levels in other jobs?

Yellow Mage, you haven't been in FFXI long enough to understand the history behind the Summoner job.

Believe you me, if you think Square-Enix didn't have exactly this sort of mechanic in mind when they first added the job, you weren't around back a few years ago.

- The only way to get any avatar aside from Carbuncle was to win the fight against the Prime Avatars (something that was much, much harder to do when the level cap was 60). Mini-fork battles weren't added until very much later, after a large percentage of newbies complained about being unable to complete said Prime Avatar fights.

- There was no Fenrir or Diabolos. For that matter, Diabolos is probably the most difficult job-related spell or ability to acquire in the game, aside from weird stuff like relic-specific weaponskills.

- Spirits were laughably weak. They got a bit of a boost a while back in their spellcasting repertoire and casting frequency.

- Elemental Staves weren't around for a very long time as well. Good luck keeping any summon in play for more than a short while, Carbuncle included, without those all-important staves.

You can complain all you like about it, but this is the way the Summoner job has been since day 1, and only in the last year or two has Square-Enix made any concession whatsoever toward making the job more playable mainstream.


Icemage

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!

I disagree. An entire job which requires you to already have a high leveled job to play effectively is on a whole other level of dumbness beyond that of the COP Rings.

You're entitled to your opinion about how avatars were obtained, but now that they're obtainable two ways, your complaint is null and void. However, I hope SE doesn't even dumb down the Fenrir and Diabolos fights the same way, especially after all the work it takes just to challenge both of them.

You're going to have to explain the CoP ring complaint, though. All expansion content leads to mission completion rewards and I see nothing wrong about the path you must take to obtain them.

[Malacite]

Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!

The only dumbness in obtaining the CoP rings is how much of an utter joke SE has turned CoP into. I'm glad I beat it when it was still a challenge ; ;


And as Icemage pointed out, SMN has been broken from day 1 (originally it only had carbuncle until Zilart came out shortly after) and it's taken them forever to admit to their screw up, much like with Rranged Attacks and Call Wyvern.

[Pteryx]

Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!

My experience in endgame activities is minimal, so I;m curious. Where/how would my proposed changes to Arts/Manifestation infringe on RDM's turf more than SCH already has?

I feel you've entirely misunderstood my post, if you've read it at all. It doesn't even have anything to do with endgame, and I have to wonder what you're expecting me to say about endgame that would be remotely relevant to the point I was trying to make.

If you need me to make that point again, here it is: RDM and SCH both focus on using both black and white magic. However, they do so in opposite ways. RDM is best at where black and white magic are similar. SCH is better where black and white magic are different. Making the Arts focus on skills instead of the white/black divide, and making Manifestation and Accession work with black enhancing and white enfeebling, would weaken the distinction between the swirl mage and the neapolitan mage. -- Pteryx

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Post your job adjustment wish lists!

You're entitled to your opinion about how avatars were obtained, but now that they're obtainable two ways, your complaint is null and void. However, I hope SE doesn't even dumb down the Fenrir and Diabolos fights the same way, especially after all the work it takes just to challenge both of them.

Well, yes, but I don't want Fenrir and Diabolos to be easy, either, since before that a Summoner already has 7 Avatars to work with.

What I'm talking about is stuff like Carby Mitts only being available from a level 70 Tonberry NM, Spirit Pacts not being that much easier to obtain, and the fact that, before 70, a Summoner is laughed at if they actually Summon and maintain an avatar instead of being a happy little White Mage, despite the fact that if they wanted to be a White Mage, they would have leveled that in the first place.

You're going to have to explain the CoP ring complaint, though. All expansion content leads to mission completion rewards and I see nothing wrong about the path you must take to obtain them.

The CoP Ring comment actually originated with Feba, as seen several posts above.