Ninja or Paladin Which one to be????

[Talek]

Hi, I recently got to lvl 30 and now comes the fun part of playing FF XI and thats being able to pick an adv job. But I don't know which one to be, Ninja or Paladin.

I know ninjas are expensive and they can do alot of things that paladins can't, but I don't know what paladins can do besides heal and keep some hate. While I've also heard that ninjas can sometimes steal the hate from paladins. So I'm don't know whats to be and I guess it all comes down to end game stuff.

All insight is welcome and I hope I can find the right tank to be.

Thanks...

[nanatsu]

Re: Ninja or Paladin Which one to be????

Nin tanking is all about evasion, counting your shadows and reapplying them in order to not take damage, and using your ninjutsu and attacks to keep hate. Nin isn't really a great solo tank until around level 37 when you get Utsusemi:Ni. Until then, PLD easily beats out NIN (in my opinion. Your mileage may vary. I've seen a lot more reliable pld tanks than nin tanks in those early levels though).

PLD has a great deal many hate tools at its disposal, so it's noticeably easier to keep hate on your own. PLD also has the option of healing others. They use high defense and shield blocking to lessen damage taken and it's easier to be a reliable tank as a pld than as a nin. I've found that taking hate from a nin is a breeze unless you have a thf tricking onto them, while PLD seems to be better able to hold onto the monster and grab hate right back if they lose it. They are limited by their MP, tho.

Honestly, if for some reason a nin can steal hate from a pld, that pld would be better able to snatch it right back. But there are some situations where having a nin tank is better. Ninjas are also better soloers, due to their ability to negate damage completely. You'll end up having to constantly pay for that ability however, which is supposed to be the limiting factor. And once your shadows are down, if you can't get them back up you'll die a lot quicker than a pld would. But that would only be a major problem before Utsusemi:Ni.

And that's the gist of it. It mostly comes down to your playing style, so just pick which one appeals to you more.

EDIT: Forgot to add that when shit hits the fan, PLDs have a great 2hour at their disposal which makes them invincible to physical damage and dumps a large amount of hate on them. NIN can only blow themselves up and can't really use their 2hr to save the party.

[Silent Howler]

Re: Ninja or Paladin Which one to be????

I found tanking with Nin to be difficult. Not that I couldn't keep hate, but my shadows always went down a few seconds before I could cast it again, which left me open to attack. And even when I could recast I would get interrupted over and over. {Provoke} {Yes, please.} Until Utsusemi:Ni you kind of have to relay on someone else to take hate from you while you try to get your shadows back up, and then take it back from them afterwards. A little tricky to do if you aren't Nin/War.

[Armando]

Re: Ninja or Paladin Which one to be????

What they said. It's all about personal preference and style. NIN can tank things PLD isn't as suited to tank. PLD can tank things NIN isn't as suited to tank. NIN can generally take less damage, but PLD can hold hate a lot better and in good parties later on they can do a lot of their own healing with the amount of Refresh that's available.

A few things of importance:
- Like Nanatsu said, NIN can't solo tank properly 'til 37. 'Til then, most people get two NINs or WAR/NINs and they bounce hate back and forth so that one's shadows are up when the other is recasting. Don't pass judgment on NIN based on its performance from 1-37.
- NIN is a useful sub for PLD at 75 so regardless of which you pick you'll probably end up taking NIN to 37 anyways.
- PLD sucks at soloing early on (whereas NIN doesn't) but can solo very well at high levels.
- Don't let costs or "difficulty" scare you away from NIN. It's not as bad as you think.

But really, it boils down to style and personal preference. I like taking hits to the face. Other people like being all ninja and evasive. Which do you prefer?

[Icemage]

Re: Ninja or Paladin Which one to be????

It's far too early for you to worry about endgame when you're just hitting level 30. Plenty of time to worry about endgame once you have one (or preferably more than one) job at level 75.

It's been said before on this board many times but it bears repeating: play what you enjoy, not what other people want. Playing into what you think other people want is a pretty good recipe for burnout.

That said, of the two jobs specified, for the relatively new player, Paladin is a better choice simply because of fewer inventory and finance complications. Ninja is a pretty expensive job to maintain, and requires a ton of inventory that most new players simply will not have access to for quite some time because of fame requirements for gobbiebag and storage quests.


Icemage

[Pteryx]

Re: Ninja or Paladin Which one to be????

One key thing about tanking as a NIN as opposed to tanking as a PLD is that it takes more effort to do it well. This is one major reason that PLDs are typically better at holding hate than NINs -- PLD tanking is harder to screw up. Heck, you can get a nice hate feedback loop going on PLD by healing yourself, whereas NIN has to go out of its way more to keep the mob's attention all the way to the end of each battle.

So if you want tanking to be relatively easy, I suggest PLD, whereas if you want more of a challenge, I suggest NIN. -- Pteryx

[Malacite]

Re: Ninja or Paladin Which one to be????

I'd like to note that Mijin Gakure is not useless when a party is in a dire situation. If it looks like you're all going to die, the NIN can make an attempt to steal hate and run off with the mob while everyone else goes the other way and simply kamikaze just before the lethal blow so that no XP penalty is taken.

It's not always possible, but I feel it ought to be noted.


Also, like others said NIN is very versatile compared to PLD. Most of the time you'll end up subbing WAR and tanking (as it's the cheapest and most preferred style by the general populace @-@) but you can also use RNG sub for guns and shuriken (Shuriken are insanely powerful and equally as expensive ><) and later on (ideally 51+) BLM and RDM subs for spamming elemental ninjutsu.


NIN is also a very sic DD by end game if you can get enough haste and dual wield gear, while PLD's DD abilities don't increase quite as much (They do go up, but NIN was meant to DD. PLD wasn't)

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Ninja or Paladin Which one to be????

NIN is also a very sic DD

I know I'm not the only one who found that funny.

[Icemage]

Re: Ninja or Paladin Which one to be????

NIN is also a very sic DD by end game if you can get enough haste and dual wield gear, while PLD's DD abilities don't increase quite as much (They do go up, but NIN was meant to DD. PLD wasn't)

I'm sorry but... no.

Paladin should do better than NIN with nice gear in a damage parse at level 75. Of course, they'll take a lot of damage unless they're using /NIN, but even there the combination of something like Joyeuse + Company Sword should still win over a NIN + Haste build.

No one invites NIN/WAR to merits for their damage potential. It's the fact that they're a blinktank with Provoke that's the appeal, not their mad damage.


Icemage

[KoukiRyu]

Re: Ninja or Paladin Which one to be????

I agree with Icemage. PLD can do quite a bit better, just due to higher damage weapons, and especially with Joyeuse

And before you reply Malacite, he's talking about normal NINs. Not your leet NIN friend with 500+ :San's just the normal NINs.

[Malacite]

Re: Ninja or Paladin Which one to be????

Idk about that Icemage, I've seen some NIN hit the haste cap and do some awfully nasty dmg... let's keep in mind that a NIN can pretty much full-time Berserk while a PLD can't (well, a PLD could, but that might not be productive.)

[Icemage]

Re: Ninja or Paladin Which one to be????

Idk about that Icemage, I've seen some NIN hit the haste cap and do some awfully nasty dmg... let's keep in mind that a NIN can pretty much full-time Berserk while a PLD can't (well, a PLD could, but that might not be productive.)

Eh... when you're hanging around in an LS full of people with godly gears doing merits all the time, you get a pretty good feel for what works and what doesn't. Neither PLD nor NIN output staggering amounts of damage over time.

NIN in full Haste gears does only mediocre damage due to lack of base damage even with Berserk on 3 minutes out of every 5.

PLD doesn't do tons of damage either because of general lack of attack gears.

That said, the high end 1H swords are better than the high end 1H katanas. Blade: Jin is about as good as Savage Blade (maybe a shade better).

And for the Haste advantage, no amount of Haste is going to erase the speed advantage of Joyeuse.


Icemage

[Malacite]

Re: Ninja or Paladin Which one to be????

Didn't think it was that bad. I mean, I've seen some pretty high Blade: Jin's before, and I figured with a NIN attacking non-stop (which I've seen) the damage would be pretty decent.

[Talek]

Re: Ninja or Paladin Which one to be????

Thanks everyone for your advice.

I decided to play Paladin and for change my race for the Elvaan Knight kinda roleplay.

Thanks again...

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Ninja or Paladin Which one to be????

1. There's no "Advanced" job. Every job has its intricacies, just some more than others--like Red Mage, which is available from the start. (S-E's terms are "Standard Jobs" and "Extra Jobs"--very neutral sounding, no?)
2. Play both PLD and NIN. There's no real penalty for switching back and forth, except for the inventory crunch. (PLD felt more natural, and I plan on taking it to 75 before NIN, but I wouldn't have known that without trying both.)