Subbing a /NIN

[isaac17]

Just a quick question,
What are the different classes you can sub ninja on and still get invites to parties? I'm talking about getting the ability to dual wield, so I'm just wondering, what are the classes you can sub ninja on for dual wield and not lose invites to parties?

Thanks

[Murphie]

Re: Subbing a /NIN

Let's see.

During the low-mid level range, you're mostly going to see it as WAR/NIN, THF/NIN, RNG/NIN or BLU/NIN. BST sometimes sub it as well, but most BST don't join EXP parties (though there are exceptions).

After 74, it becomes common to see lots of different jobs subbing it. Mostly for solo play, meripo, or special battlefields.

Really, having a variety of subs available to meet the various needs of your party is best. There are level ranges where one sub is going to prove more useful than others, or party setups where having a different sub available will help the party to achieve more.

[LilithAngel]

Re: Subbing a /NIN

Your subjob selection for a job is based more on what it benefits from more than party invite rates. Ninja, while good for Dual Wield, isn't always the best subjob of choice, depending on the situation. In general, it's a viable SJ for any job that deals mainly with single-handed weapons, as it allows for two of them, but the drawback there is that it does not "double" your Attack, and you add both delays together (and end up with roughly what amounts to a two-handed weapon delay; later upgrades and gear to Dual Wield reduce this delay, however). You also only gain the Weapon Skill set of what's equipped in the main hand, and skill up rates tend to be lower for off-hand weapons (if they're not the same as the main-hand one).

Only certain jobs really benefit from it, mainly Warrior, Thief, Ranger, Blue Mage, and endgame Paladin tanks (for raid purposes, really, and only for certain monsters). While other jobs can DW, they really don't gain any benefit from it that surpasses the main weapon types that they're designed for.

[Murphie]

Re: Subbing a /NIN

Well, most /NIN'ing at later levels isn't for dual wield, but for Utsusemi. Which is a whole other discussion. But suffice it to say that it's used a lot for that reason alone.

[LilithAngel]

Re: Subbing a /NIN

While true, it's still doesn't change the fact that /nin is for two things:

1> Dual wield
2> Utsusemi

Nothing else really matters as far as /nin goes. The two go hand in hand, and might as well be lumped together. There are rare instances that you take /nin for Utsu alone, but those don't happen often enough that it's significant. DW is the main draw in this situation, though.

EDIT: in an interesting twist, I just thought about how I personally use /nin, and my own BLU smacked me in the face like a Mack truck. I tend to use BLU/NIN for DW more than Utsu, actually, and spell spamming. Solo I rely on Utsu, true, but in party play (the focus of this discussion), I rarely use Utsu unless I just decide to be irresponsible in my hate control.

[BurningPanther]

Re: Subbing a /NIN

Yeah, no lie that /NIN's primary use is Utsusemi, but to be honest, I wouldn't bother with it if I could get my Dual Wield fix by another means.

[Olorin401]

Re: Subbing a /NIN

Well, most /NIN'ing at later levels isn't for dual wield, but for Utsusemi. Which is a whole other discussion. But suffice it to say that it's used a lot for that reason alone.

It's also useful to have for Tonko, especially when those merit parties invite you to the Greater Colibri Camps off Alzadaal Ruins..

You can /NIN for just about any job out there because it's so useful..

MNK/NIN - it doesn't add much to their job damage-wise, but it's good for protection and extra evasion when they yank hate away from a tank.
WHM/NIN - heh.. love doin this.. great for soloing or the rare WHM burn party.
SAM/NIN - A well-skilled and well-merited player can tank NMs and Sky Gods with this combo.
BLM/NIN - Again it's good protection when soloing, and your INT gets a small boost from it tho not as much as /RDM

[Pteryx]

Re: Subbing a /NIN

The jobs that benefit the most from /NIN, IMO, are THF, BLU, and RNG.

THF and RNG both pull and both have a tendency to suddenly get a lot of hate through spikes in damage; thus, both benefit significantly from Utsusemi. The ability to dual wield is particularly good for RNG, because they can wield two Archer's Knives, vastly improving their ranged accuracy, and since RNGs don't melee, the downsides of Archer's Knives don't matter. (A THF, by contrast, needs to take melee damage into account much more.)

BLU can also pull hate in a hurry, but they have other means of dealing with that problem; what makes /NIN so great for BLU is Dual Wield itself. While many melees get moderate benefits from Dual Wield in the form of minor net attack speed improvement and getting an additional hit added to multi-hit weaponskills, BLU also gets the bonus of an extra hit added to multi-hit physical spells, which can be used much more than weaponskills. Thus, no one gets more out of Dual Wield than BLU.

The melee jobs that get the least out of /NIN are DRG, SAM, and PUP. All of these jobs use both hands for their best weapons, so Dual Wield is completely useless to them. Furthermore, all three of these jobs have viable means of dealing with pulling hate other than Utsusemi; a DRG can use Super Jump, a SAM can use Seigan + Third Eye, and a PUP... well, not only is it the puppet (resummonable every 20 minutes) that would take hate and not the PUP proper, but the puppet can have a number of effective defensive attachments.

In XP, don't sub /NIN to a mage job; high MP totals are far too vital. However, in other situations it can work. Specifically, RDM/NIN and WHM/NIN are good soloers and BLM/NIN can use elemental ninjutsu to soften enemies up for their spells and then get protection via Utsusemi. (SMN/NIN is totally pointless, though.) -- Pteryx