/RDM vs. /BLU

[Spider-Dan]

So I've decided to use my Anniversary Ring for the purpose of making the excruciatingly tedious task of leveling a subjob slightly less so. I would like to level a SJ with MAB for QD on my COR, but /BLM is out (even though I already have BLM to 17) because my MP would be completely useless, and 4 extra MAB (MAB I to MAB II) isn't worth throwing away my entire mana pool.

I'm trying to decide between /RDM and /BLU, but I'd like to hear if anyone else has anything to add. So far, this is what I've come up with:

/RDM
- Fast Cast II
- Cure III can be cast outside of party
- Phalanx
- stronger Stoneskin
- Blink
- additional (mediocre) Dispel
- Pro2/Shell2
- MAB and Fast Cast I work in 40cap (for NIN/RDM on Under Observation)
- Resist Petrify (again, BC40)
- Sneak/Invis

BLU
- Auto Regen
- Healing Breeze
- Wild Carrot is reportedly more potent than Cure III
- Cocoon
- can stun with Head Butt (?)

Although /RDM certainly wins the laundry list battle, the primary use I'd have for my MP would be curing, so Healing Breeze/Wild Carrot are a bit more important than just another line item. However, I'm wondering if anyone else has any other insights. I'm looking at this primarily from the perspective of a RNG/THF/COR player, although some small consideration (very small) may be given to 40NIN/x in Under Observation.

[Armando]

Re: /RDM vs. /BLU

Regarding Wild Carrot: You might not be able to make it more powerful than Cure III depending on your MND. At least I think I remember that when I was levelling BLU, I needed some Healing Magic Skill to make it reach full power in the 30's. Can't even remember how efficient Healing Breeze was, since I hardly ever got to use it as BLU.

You can stun easy things with Head Butt (probably BCNM mobs as well) though it'll be a bit flakey even then. Although, in BCNM setups where you have a BRD, a lightning threnody should (haven't tested it, but should) decrease the Stun resists.

Can't think of much else.

[Sabaron]

Re: /RDM vs. /BLU

All offensive Blue Magic is useless except against the very weakest creatures when off sub--no other class has native Blue Magic and resists are too common to even bother.
Cocoon is awesome, but not as awesome as Phalanx and Stoneskin combined.
Wild Carrot is like Cure III and can be more potent than it depending on your MND. COR is not well known for their high MND.
Healing Breeze is excellent, half price Curaga (if you can push it that high, don't know how far COR can push HB).
/BLU gives access to the "upper tier" of Sword WS's (Red Lotus, Seraph, and Vorpal).
/BLU will have a much smaller MP pool than /RDM.
So basically, I' ve narrowed the benefits to:
Sword WS
Healing Breeze

[Hyrist]

Re: /RDM vs. /BLU

Phalanx is the only thing with a fast enough cast to equate out to be better than Cocoon. However, Cocoon's potential for reducing damage is greater than that of Phalanx, 10 MP.

Stoneskin with RDM is indeed more potent, but it also far more MP expensive. If you're needing Stoneskin of that caliber though, you may want to consider what you are doing. Same goes for Wild Carrot, which one could easially swap on a pair of MND rings to boost to full or near-full effect.

Another unspoken advantage of BLU is the stat bonuses on spells. STR, AGI, MND, DEX are all available to any job to help increase your main stat more on top of all your rings and things. This also helps with stats like low MND for those cure Spells.

Also, Sheep Song and Soporific being cheep, low level AoE sleep spells can be very effective in a pinch. The nice thing about this is even there are some resists, being AoE, even a few falling asleep will easially help change the tide to allow for main sleepers to carry the weight. For Cor, I'd say use INT more and Soporific.

All offensive Blue Magic is useless except against the very weakest creatures when off sub--no other class has native Blue Magic and resists are too common to even bother.

Offensive BLU magic is dependent on main weapon accuracy and raw stats as well as Blue Magic skill. Provided you have strong accuracy and some decent stats, you can generally override your subbed skill level all the way up to VT and still have decent accuracy. Granted, it's no where near as effective as a main BLU would use, but it isn't any less effective than a PLD/RDM using enfeebles: They have their situations where they work.

If you're playing corsair, you may want to focus on more Agi based abilities and spells. Mainly Feather Storm for poison effect and a quick ranged hit, and Wild Oats for a brief VIT down.

In the end, you might want to level up both subjobs. RDM and BLU are versatile and very powerful if used correctly, take advantage of that and you'll have an easier game all around.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: /RDM vs. /BLU

Having used /RDM on my BRD in the past, I wouldn't rate Dispel under /RDM as mediocre, I've hardly ever seen it resisted under sub. It can be very handy to have as a fallback to a resisted Dark Shot or Finale.

All things considered, though, I'd skew to the strongest party support sub and not the strongest self support sub. I fully agree with you about bypassing /BLM, there's no use for that MP even if BLM's MAB would offer the best Quick Draw damage for Corsair.

My fundamental problem with both /RDM and /BLU is they both lack what /WHM has - status cures, but I am looking to level one of them as well because of the nice MAB they get as well.

I'd personally go with /BLU for its curative abilities and stat/trait alterations. These cures would be limited to your own PT, but with COR also able to still perform DD elements with a mage sub, its really your call.

I've rarely seen an instance where things like Blink/Stoneskin/Phalnax became a major life-saver when you're in a mage PT, which COR typically is. Cocoon would work in a pinch if you really needed a high level of protection for a brief period of time.

I think Fast Cast and MP aren't really big issues here, both jobs cast quickly and you have nothing under main that would benefit from Fast Cast. MP merits and Mithra RSE take care of many MP issues. The Mithra RSE are very nice, I'm forgoing the Savage Separates to keep Dusk Trousers in the leg slot, but if you're going /mage, you can use Jungle Rope, River Gaiters and lose almost nothing in performance for your other COR duties. Crimson Finger Gauntlets are a no-brainer in this build.

[Spider-Dan]

Re: /RDM vs. /BLU

All offensive Blue Magic is useless except against the very weakest creatures when off sub--no other class has native Blue Magic and resists are too common to even bother.

I thought physical blue magic was based on the accuracy of your mainhand weapon?

/BLU will have a much smaller MP pool than /RDM.

According to the stat calculator, /BLU and /RDM have exactly the same MP pool. After spells are equipped, I imagine /BLU would win.

It bears mentioning that I already own a LOT of +MND gear for my RNG. Not that I'd be particularly interested in lugging it along, but it is available.

P.S. I should point out that I'm not considering either of these as a substitute for /WHM. I leveled /WHM long ago. So I suppose that does affect the comparison a bit; for any activity where I needed stoneskin, blink, sneak, invis, pro/shell, curaga, or auto-regen, I already have a SJ available for that (it just doesn't give MAB).

[Armando]

Re: /RDM vs. /BLU

The accuracy of physical Blue Magic is based on your melee accuracy. Its damage, on the other hand, is based mostly on Blue Magic Skill. The spell's DMG and the "Attack" value used when figuring pDIF both come from Blue Magic Skill, so they can be pretty underwhelming against T+ mobs. They still do ok damage and Damage/MP on weak things. Oh, yeah - it looks like the accuracy of the added effects is based on Blue Magic Skill as well.

According to the stat calculator, /BLU and /RDM have exactly the same MP pool. After spells are equipped, I imagine /BLU would win.

That's correct.

[Sabaron]

Re: /RDM vs. /BLU

As for the RDM + BLU mp pools being the same... I did not know that <.< >.>

As for the effectiveness of the offensive spells, again, I was referring to whatever is most appropriate for the spell. For physical spells, that is the damage: Damage from physical spells is quite unimpressive--you'd do better saving the mp and attacking with a ranged or melee weapon. As for magical blue magic (and special effects of physical magic), you will not get a lot of mileage out of them. While they can be very impressive (especially if you have +MAB) on lower-level monsters, performance against higher level mobs is not generally worth the mp since the main job will have a better outlet for dealing damage (usually melee). This means that these spells are "useless". Not that they're completely so (against weak mobs) but in anything that counts.

This leaves you with a couple of very efficient curative spells--Wild Carrot and Healing Breeze, both of which perform exceedingly well with RDM/BLU, but I have no idea how they perform on COR/BLU. With +MND gear, you could probably make up a lot of the MND differential, but remember that RDM can push very high MND, and that's what I'm basing my efficiency off of. COR/BLU will not be as efficient as WHM/BLU, RDM/BLU, or BLU/WHM, but if WC is still better than Cure III, it may still be worth the slot. Healing Breeze, as I mentioned, is already half price which means that it, hands down, beats Curaga (except for the self-target only and recast time aspect--HB is 15sec recast, Curaga is 10).