A new opportunity for Necromancer?

[Murphie]

Re: A new opportunity for Necromancer?

There is a huge difference between "thinking" and "forcing players to discover an extremely specific and limiting strategy".

[Wise Donkey]

Re: A new opportunity for Necromancer?

Regardless of whatever strategy SE intends in a fight, someone will always think of the easiest way out, i.e. bring a bunch of SMN, RNG, BLM, etc.

[Murphie]

Re: A new opportunity for Necromancer?

Regardless of whatever strategy SE intends in a fight, someone will always think of the easiest way out, i.e. bring a bunch of SMN, RNG, BLM, etc.

Plus, once someone figures out the specific strategy required, is anyone else going to "think" about other methods? Unlikely. They'll just do what is required to beat the encounter and complain that there's no difficulty in the game.

Happens in every MMO. FFXI is no different.

[Kirsteena]

Re: A new opportunity for Necromancer?

The problem is that that is a strategy for offline games. MMO, where you have to have people think, is different.

Don't get me wrong, I would love to have something like this. I like thinking out of the box, coming up with something different - part of the reason I like small manning stuff (my ls does some small manning in salvage, sea - far more fun). People have to think. However, FF has too many sheep =( I know, I used to lead a ls full of them.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: A new opportunity for Necromancer?

Well, Limbus plays up some of the approaches i'm familiar with from other FF games, as to some of the ZM fights. CoPs have a more unique approach. Hell, i've done more CoPs with a balanced setup than I've done with the SMN or BLM x5 approach.

I'm even looking into pet-based statics for EXP and merit out of the interest of just experiencing it and to get some data on how Corsair's rolls would play into them.

Getting back on topic, I do have an attraction to pet jobs, I doubt I'd ever go SMN, but a Job like Necromancer - if given some other utility to PTs besides pet DD - would be one I'd likely play. If you mix in the ability to summon demons and chimera on top of undead you'd have some variety in damage types (Blunt, Slash, etc.) and they could do various spells.

We've already got other pet alignments, the elemental ones are covered by SMN the majority of others are used by BST, PUP's Automation can be customized for various functions while DRG has a Holy Aspect to face dragons. SAM, PLD and DRk oppose Demon, Undead and Archane respectively. We have nothing that really opposes Holy/Light as agressively as these other aspects.

You could also flex to many subjobs if it was capable of soloing, along with giving it the right spells. Weapons could be daggers, sword and staves. It wouldn't be too unrealistic to add Alchemist elements, either (the job not the craft skill), taking various items to create something only they could make to use through Job Abilities. Perhaps it could be used to call demons, create refresh items, emulate spell effects and the like. They're already calling the undead, it wouldn't be out of reason to think they dabble in the darker aspects of Alchemy.

I will concede another consumable-based job would make it less attractive to the general player, but the job might be able to overcome that better than RNG or COR would, as people do pay to play NIN partially due to its image, solo aspects and the like. People like "dark" jobs, after all.

[Akashimo]

Re: A new opportunity for Necromancer?

Well written on the concept. I am interested on the idea of it being implemented.

If we look at jobs based on what they oppose in terms of cities, DRK vs Bastok(zeid), Summoner(windurst, smns are heritics after all), Corsairs vs Blu & Aht Urhagan, even Dragoon vs San d'Oria to an extent(gotta love the CS).

Looking at jobs as what they represent, DRGs are Demons due to the fact Demons having Dragon Killer, yet could also be Dragons because of Spirit Surge and call wyvern. Paladin with undead killer and Dark with Arcana Killer based on chart, Paladins are Arcana and Darks undead. Also generally Drks do behave like the undead where as they steal from the living. Paladins with high defense and white magic. Most arcane with casting abilies do use Cures and an in effect defend more than attack. (AoE Stuns/bind to lower dmg).

To have Necromancer would be in a logical sense the next step for job oppositions to whats around and already here in the game. Lets wait and see. =3

[Mhurron]

Re: A new opportunity for Necromancer?

I know SE said Necromancer would be a difficult job to implement due to the whole daylight thing,

So they created PUP as a way around it.

They already took the idea of 'necromancer' and changed it to fit the game. They won't add the job again.

[Akashimo]

Re: A new opportunity for Necromancer?

So they created PUP as a way around it.
They already took the idea of 'necromancer' and changed it to fit the game. They won't add the job again.

Meh, still its the idea of being able to control more than just charm able mobs, automations, wyverns, summons and elemental spirits is what to look for. As much as I love summons from the console games, smn here was a let down, so was people perception and acceptance of Pup. If anything add a job to become a Fomor so in a sense, at 40 gain a trait to become immune to aggro from undead, yet, carry job abilities that changes with your sub. Unfinished yes, unoriginal, maybe, compromise idea, probally.

[Neomage]

Re: A new opportunity for Necromancer?

Necormancer would likely come out looking much like PUP, and we see how well that went.

Now isn't that odd now... PUP plays almost exactly like Necromancer would...

Oh wait. Puppetmaster is SE's incarnation of Necromancer. They said it themselves.

[Akashimo]

Re: A new opportunity for Necromancer?

Now isn't that odd now... PUP plays almost exactly like Necromancer would...
Oh wait. Puppetmaster is SE's incarnation of Necromancer. They said it themselves.

And its the loljob of the game, yea, real nice, next we see STP for stool pigeon >_>; I really fail to see the concept behind PUP, and its take by people really poor. Crash and burn, lets see something made by the players as a whole for a new job with little input by SE other than small limitations. Maybe a new job contest hosted by FFXI forums?

[BurningPanther]

Re: A new opportunity for Necromancer?

PUP has potential, people just need to warm up to it. I've seen PUP deal pretty consistent damage through melee and support, thought it seems to lack the strength to necessary at higher levels. People are only just now coming around to the worth of DRG(though some remain close-minded), and PUP still has some growing to do.

The only thing I'd have wished different is being able to control Arcana puppets. Now that would have been cool.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: A new opportunity for Necromancer?

Now isn't that odd now... PUP plays almost exactly like Necromancer would...

Oh wait. Puppetmaster is SE's incarnation of Necromancer. They said it themselves.

SE also said BSTs weren't intended to solo and NINs weren't intended to be tanks... look how that worked out. PUP strikes me more as a homage to the Mime Class, as it would be totally broken and exploited in an online game if it performed the literal function.. WAR does Rampage, MIM does Rampage. you get the picture. It would actually be trump WAR as the most AFK job in the game.

So they gave the new job an Automation that emulated job functions through the use of attachments. The AF, too, reeks of Gogo, even if the color scheme is totally different. Addtionally, MMOs aren't strangers to automations being pets, you don't have to look far in others to see that. So I don't quite buy SE's claim this was its substitute for Necromancer. Why not just do Necromancer in the first place it that's what people wanted?

Anyway, I think PUP and BLU aren't played to potential. Even popular jobs are not commonly played to potential, I mean, how many WARs do you know that have capped every weapon they can equip? The job is a weaponmaster. How many do you know that have subbed /SAM or even /MNK? Met any that acutally use a GA? Or keep a DEF build on hand in case they're asked to tank?

The instances are few, but we don't dump on WARs about not doing it since they've been around so long and we think DD defines that job. That's not true.

[Murphie]

Re: A new opportunity for Necromancer?

SE also said BSTs weren't intended to solo and NINs weren't intended to be tanks... look how that worked out. PUP strikes me more as a homage to the Mime Class, as it would be totally broken and exploited in an online game if it performed the literal function.. WAR does Rampage, MIM does Rampage. you get the picture. It would actually be trump WAR as the most AFK job in the game.

So they gave the new job an Automation that emulated job functions through the use of attachments. The AF, too, reeks of Gogo, even if the color scheme is totally different. Addtionally, MMOs aren't strangers to automations being pets, you don't have to look far in others to see that. So I don't quite buy SE's claim this was its substitute for Necromancer. Why not just do Necromancer in the first place it that's what people wanted?

Anyway, I think PUP and BLU aren't played to potential. Even popular jobs are not commonly played to potential, I mean, how many WARs do you know that have capped every weapon they can equip? The job is a weaponmaster. How many do you know that have subbed /SAM or even /MNK? Met any that acutally use a GA? Or keep a DEF build on hand in case they're asked to tank?

The instances are few, but we don't dump on WARs about not doing it since they've been around so long and we think DD defines that job. That's not true.

In that case, we definitely don't need any more jobs in the game.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: A new opportunity for Necromancer?

In that case, we definitely don't need any more jobs in the game.

well, we do have a lot, but there are a few remaining with great potential and an opportunity to add something unique. I won't rehash Dancer or Geomancer as those have been covered on this forum rather well.

But what of Chemist/Alchemist? It would be another consumable job but if you had a job with the ability to make unique, temporary items, that could be a fun one. If you remember Rikku's Overdrive in FFX, she took any combination of items and provide and offense of support ability to the PT in that turn. That was directly based on Chemist from FFV and the options for Rikku's Overdrive required a massive chart. There were so many possibilities. If they made it so it played into alchemy without disrupting the craft skill itself, that could be something.

Mystic Knight is a hard sell since so much of what it did got absorbed into Red Mage in its design. The en-spells and spike spells are what I'm referring to there. Time Mage, same thing. WHM, SMN, BRD, RDM all have thier main spells. Oracle = boring. Viking is too obscure. Mediator is basically BST with a different name.

Engineer/Machinist... that one's always been tricky to nail down a definition for. In FFT the guy had a gun. FFIV Cid used mallets and had that Scan ability (also known as Libra). FFVI had Edgar, with a variety of DD/status inflicting ranged attacks (Bioblaster, Chainsaw, Flashbulb). SE could really make whatever they wanted out of that one.

[Murphie]

Re: A new opportunity for Necromancer?

well, we do have a lot, but there are a few remaining with great potential and an opportunity to add something unique. I won't rehash Dancer or Geomancer as those have been covered on this forum rather well.

But what of Chemist/Alchemist? It would be another consumable job but if you had a job with the ability to make unique, temporary items, that could be a fun one. If you remember Rikku's Overdrive in FFX, she took any combination of items and provide and offense of support ability to the PT in that turn. That was directly based on Chemist from FFV and the options for Rikku's Overdrive required a massive chart. There were so many possibilities. If they made it so it played into alchemy without disrupting the craft skill itself, that could be something.

Mystic Knight is a hard sell since so much of what it did got absorbed into Red Mage in its design. The en-spells and spike spells are what I'm referring to there. Time Mage, same thing. WHM, SMN, BRD, RDM all have thier main spells. Oracle = boring. Viking is too obscure. Mediator is basically BST with a different name.

Engineer/Machinist... that one's always been tricky to nail down a definition for. In FFT the guy had a gun. FFIV Cid used mallets and had that Scan ability (also known as Libra). FFVI had Edgar, with a variety of DD/status inflicting ranged attacks (Bioblaster, Chainsaw, Flashbulb). SE could really make whatever they wanted out of that one.

No. All of those ideas sound stupid.