Fleshed-out Job Concepts

[Malacite]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

http://pc.ign.com/articles/821/821965p1.html

Square said FFXI fan events in Osaka, Japan and in the United States will give players a chance to try out the Dancer, as well as reveal another job.

Will they be revealing the same job at both? (most likely ) or will it be a different job at each event <_ < And why would want just 2 new jobs rather than 3? More jobs = more variety = more fun. I've said it a million times; the ppl who don't want new jobs need to STFU and ignore them. I personally love it whenever they add more to the game since it means yet more play styles ^^

[Lmnop]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

You word that in a manor to automatically vilify anything said by the opposition. =(

I don't want to start an argument with you. New jobs are cool. I want 2 jobs because I don't want puppetmaster round 2. I want 2 jobs more than anything, to show that S-E is no one's bitch. Everyone running around assuming there are 3 jobs coming out is proof that they're letting us discover how formulaic they've become.

Btw, let's make 7 new jobs. Barbarian, Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Rogue, Sorcerer, Wizard. You know you'd be pissed if they announced that. You know that as soon as you started reading this paragraph that it was BS. Why? All good things come in moderation. And with good reason.

P.S. I want a tank.

[Malacite]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

The hell do you mean PUP round 2? Just because it was the 3rd one introduced is not indicative of the problems it had.

It was because the fans were screaming for Necromancer, which just didn't work and so SE decided to pull something out of their ass.

[Ziero]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

Time Mages weren't weak in Tactics, they were annoying in the levels where you had to face armies of the little bastards Slowing you and and Hasting their side.
SE is supposed to announce the next job at another japanese event, I don't think we'll be waiting until the last minute to learn of it.

I thought it would be confirmed that at least one more job would be announced at the US Fan Fest which is on nov 17(?). If that's the case, and they were going to add a third new job as well, it would probably appear on the site around Oct 18-20th. It would be about a month since Dancer was announced while leaving a month before the third job would be announced.

My guess, and yes I'm repeating myself, Geomancer and Time Mage. Geo was the number two most wanted job last expansion behind Blu and Time Mage was up there as well.

Well I agree... They were annoying. However, you couldn't annoy your enemy to death, so I only ever had a Time Mage in my party in Tactics in order to learn the job traits and apply them to other jobs -_-
It could be made very useful in FFXI, though.

Meteor was pretty darn deadly

You word that in a manor to automatically vilify anything said by the opposition. =(
I don't want to start an argument with you. New jobs are cool. I want 2 jobs because I don't want puppetmaster round 2. I want 2 jobs more than anything, to show that S-E is no one's bitch. Everyone running around assuming there are 3 jobs coming out is proof that they're letting us discover how formulaic they've become.

Pup sucks because it has crappy base stats and limited abilities, not because it was a 'third job'. It also suffers from the 'pet job syndrome' where it's full strength is divided in half and in the process left severely weakend when compared to 'full' jobs.

I doubt SE cares about people predicting small things like the amount of jobs coming when they can surprise us with bigger things like what jobs are coming. Dancer was a shot to left field and caught everyone by surprise, as were Cor and Pup last time. I know I keep saying what I expect, but I doubt that both of them will be coming because SE can be bastards like that.

[Lmnop]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

Pup sucks because it has crappy base stats and limited abilities, not because it was a 'third job'. It also suffers from the 'pet job syndrome' where it's full strength is divided in half and in the process left severely weakend when compared to 'full' jobs.

No, PUPs deficiencies stem from the fact that ramifications were not foreseen. Maybe they did a good job of playtesting, probably not. But they certainly did not take into account the way their playerbase would (dis)use it.

[Malacite]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

So? You think SE saw NIN tanking coming? It's kind of the opposite end of the spectrum, but it's more or less the same deal. What the player base does to/with a job is not entirely SE's fault.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

You word that in a manor to automatically vilify anything said by the opposition. =(

I don't want to start an argument with you. New jobs are cool. I want 2 jobs because I don't want puppetmaster round 2. I want 2 jobs more than anything, to show that S-E is no one's bitch. Everyone running around assuming there are 3 jobs coming out is proof that they're letting us discover how formulaic they've become.

Btw, let's make 7 new jobs. Barbarian, Cleric, Druid, Fighter, Rogue, Sorcerer, Wizard. You know you'd be pissed if they announced that. You know that as soon as you started reading this paragraph that it was BS. Why? All good things come in moderation. And with good reason.

P.S. I want a tank.

I find this whole statement funny, as its said and thanked by people in jobs that likely aren't as concerned about job variety as they are about their jobs losing more ground or gaining competition. RDMs are already tossing hissyfits about another potential enfeebling specialist being added.

This whole "they shouldn't add jobs for no good reason" arguments is all rubbish anyway. SE can and will release jobs when and where they see fit, nothing you can do about it.

And, if anything, all this talk about PUP and its "deficiencies"... you guys need to get out and PT more. They're main healing, manaburning and soloing. This on top of also being a decent mid-level tank. The job is coming into its own and very in line with SE's original vision for it, despite what fucktard melee players wanted it to be.

Anyway, none of this has anything to do with the subject of the thread and is largely semantic nonsense.

[Dymlos]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

I personally want to see three jobs just for the sake that I might not like the other two jobs. I really want to see them bring out Mystic Knight since it can be a good tank job. (If S-E does it right.)

[Mhurron]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

Pup sucks because it has crappy base stats and limited abilities, not because it was a 'third job'.

Whether pup sucks or not is not a problem of the job (as I understand it I can be played very well just like every other job) but more that SE had no idea what to make pup in the first place. They listened to a playerbase that said they wanted necro but had no idea why. SE saw that someone controlling the undead wasn't going to work in FFXI so they had them control the automoton.

But that's all the playerbase ever said they wanted, to control dead things. Control it to what end? What was it supposed to do? What abilities should it have? SE listened to the players, the players never answered these questions because they didn't have any answers. So you ended up with a job that no one had a use for.

But it was as close to what was asked for as was possible in the games mechanics and environment.

[Lmnop]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

I find this whole statement funny, as its said and thanked by people in jobs that likely aren't as concerned about job variety as they are about their jobs losing more ground or gaining competition. RDMs are already tossing hissyfits about another potential enfeebling specialist being added.
This whole "they shouldn't add jobs for no good reason" arguments is all rubbish anyway. SE can and will release jobs when and where they see fit, nothing you can do about it.
And, if anything, all this talk about PUP and its "deficiencies"... you guys need to get out and PT more. They're main healing, manaburning and soloing. This on top of also being a decent mid-level tank. The job is coming into its own and very in line with SE's original vision for it, despite what fucktard melee players wanted it to be.
Anyway, none of this has anything to do with the subject of the thread and is largely semantic nonsense.

Thank you for your wonderful input. I can never say the right thing, can I? I knew this would happen and it's why I told Malacite that I didn't feel like arguing. Any time someone mentions not wanting jobs, they get burned at the stake by righteous freedom-lovers.

PUP is a pretty decent job right now. Honestly, I thought it was pretty decent when it first came out. But it obviously needed work. In fact, a lot of work. It wreaked of being pushed out the door too early.

Omg, if you say

This whole "they shouldn't add jobs for no good reason" arguments is all rubbish anyway.

Then, verily, I say to you that you are flat out wrong. You're taking the stance that S-E can do whatever they want and you're not going to back it up any further.

Then I will take the stance that S-E will do their best not to fuck up their own game. They're in the business of making money. Making money means keeping a quality product. A quality product means not introducing something to said product that will ruin it for everyone.

Let me recap, before the next to posts of retorts:
1) I'll happily take 3 jobs.
2) I won't deny kinda wanting 2 just because it'd be a change of pace and well, I don't want something rushed out the door (I think PUP should have level reqs to attachments, but it's too late to make that change now that it's in the game, eh?)
3) If they made 7 new jobs, I'd honestly see how it plays out (unless any of them were Necromancer. Ugh) but frankly, I bet I'd have quit within a month. And most of the RDM population with me, it seems...
4) If they made 30 new jobs, one of which had "LOL" as an abbreviation, I'd fly to Japan to punch someone in the face.


My vile vile keyboard.

[Wiseman40]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

What job could possibly have lol as an abbreviation? Lolita?

The only complaint anyone could have that I would consider reasonable about the creation of a new job is it is suddenly trumps theirs in whatever role it played in a party previously.

All the roles are filled, so whatever we see that's new people will say one of two things.
a. It's a useless hybrid monster thing that no one should invite
b. omfgnerf it! they took our job! 'derkajobs!'


Also: I haven't been able to look through all of it but has anyone considered the possibility of a Royal Knight as a job? It seems to present in part of the WotG theme. If you think it's too Sandy specific just look at Blue Mage.

We won't be seeing 'chocobo knight' but there's a possibility of seeing a knight-type (be it mystic knight or otherwise).

I have trouble thinking of exactly how they would do this, though.

[Ziero]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

Whether pup sucks or not is not a problem of the job (as I understand it I can be played very well just like every other job) but more that SE had no idea what to make pup in the first place. They listened to a playerbase that said they wanted necro but had no idea why. SE saw that someone controlling the undead wasn't going to work in FFXI so they had them control the automoton.
But that's all the playerbase ever said they wanted, to control dead things. Control it to what end? What was it supposed to do? What abilities should it have? SE listened to the players, the players never answered these questions because they didn't have any answers. So you ended up with a job that no one had a use for.
But it was as close to what was asked for as was possible in the games mechanics and environment.

I'll agree that SE listened to the fans on pup, but they listened to them with Blu and Cor too(there was a big push for a 'Pirate' job class at the time). So it's not really that SE didn't know what they wanted from it, it's more that the players didn't know what the hell to do with it. And as you stated yourself, it 'can be played very well', but regardless of that I feel that the limitations SE imposed on it were too much in the eyes of the playerbase. So again, it's not SE making a 'bad' job, it's the playerbase feeling it was too weak. And after the past few updates the job has been coming into it's own and seeing far more versitility.

*snip*

So basically your only reasons for wanting two jobs instead of three is because you don't want them 'rushed' and you want things to be changed up? Well I can assure you, as far as SE is concered, the first thing won't happen and the second one is just inconsequential at best. I can also state that if SE did add 7 new jobs and they all turned out fun to play, unique to use and balanced with the other classes, it would not be something that would cause people to quit the game en masse. I'm not saying it's a good idea to do that, and I know SE feels the same, but if it was done right it would be a praised decision. But as we all know SE isn't that dumb and would never add so many jobs in one expansion.

Though if there ever was a job with the acronym LOL, I'd pay for your ticket to Japan to punch someone in the face.

...and maybe grab me some cheap anime while you were there

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

stuff

The point is it is absolutely ridiculous to worry about jobs being "rushed" when SE just recently got around to fixing jobs that have been broken for 3-4 years longer than PUP.

Tired of all this "woe is PUP" crap, I can't even do the "woe is BST" nonsense right now because both jobs have it really nice right now. Only complaint I could possibly have is both lacking some feasible role for endgame, but that's more of a issue the endgame community likes to impose on all jobs than an issue with levelling and merriting it to 75. BST can go the the melee side of endgame and PUP to the BLM-ish/support side.

[Mhurron]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

I'll agree that SE listened to the fans on pup, but they listened to them with Blu and Cor too(there was a big push for a 'Pirate' job class at the time).

Both of which were just rehashes of the same classes from previous FF. SE had already created them, they didn't need to listen to the players as to how it should work. Of course all the requests for them were just "I wanna play Quistis or Gau or Setzer" anyway.

PUP on the other hand was a creation of the players outside of anything from previous FF. The players only idea was "I wanna control a skeleton lolz." The job they got is what they asked for, no specific trait or use was requested, no specific trait or use was created.

[Ziero]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

Both of which were just rehashes of the same classes from previous FF. SE had already created them, they didn't need to listen to the players as to how it should work. Of course all the requests for them were just "I wanna play Quistis or Gau or Setzer" anyway.
PUP on the other hand was a creation of the players outside of anything from previous FF. The players only idea was "I wanna control a skeleton lolz." The job they got is what they asked for, no specific trait or use was requested, no specific trait or use was created.

So if anything it should be even less of a worry that they'll be screwing up Dancer, an older job, or any other potential classes they could still add, including Time Mage, Geomancer, Mystic Knight and hell even Mime.

And even then, the job has been tweaked to be more useful and actually helpful to a party and will receive more balances and boosts over time. So I fail to see how Pup is an example of, well....honestly I don't even know why Pup is involved in the discussion right now. Regardless of any past jobs, SE will always add more as long as FFXI runs.

So...yeah