Fleshed-out Job Concepts

[Ziero]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

Judgemaster

Judgemasters are masters of law and able to create and change law as they see fit on the battlefield. Whenever the allied forces were in dire situations, Judgemasters would help turn the tide of battle in thier favor by using enchanted cards to bend the law. These cards are not unlike the ones the lawless corsairs are known to employ.
Great Sword A+
Polearm B
Shield B
Club B+
Parrying C
Evasion D-
Magic Type - Advanced Law (Tool based, employing elemental cards)
Blunt Truth - Makes enemies weak to Blunt weapons. Cost 1 Earth, 1 Light Card
Piercing Justice - Makes enemies weak to Piercing weapons. Cost 1 Ice, 1 Dark Card
Cutting Law - Makes enemy weak to slashing weapons. Cost 1 Wind, 1 Ice card
Objection - Sends one detrimental effect cast on the Judgemaster or ally back to the enemy. Cost 2 Dark Cards
Reverse Ruling - A negative status ailment on any ally or judgemaster is changed to its opposite beneficial status. 2 Light Cards
Overrule - Returns the next attack made on Judgemaster to the enemy, be it magical or Physical. One light and one Dark card.
Turnabout - Weakens the target enemy to its own element, allies gain resistance to that element. 2 Light Cards + card of the enemy's Element.
Immunity - Allows an ally to ignore potential weather/day penalties. 2 Dark Cards.
Two Hour Ability - Death Penalty - Inflicts Doom status on the target enemy. Doom not effective on NMs. Additional effects: DEF down VIT down, Choke.

Honestly, I like this concept. A melee DD/debuffer that alters the stats and affects of mobs based upon the mob itself. Though I will admit it would need a few more abilities to be truely useful, maybe some that weaken/remove a monsters specific abilities. Like say, Double Jeopardy, which weakens a mob's double attack rate or something that could prevent a mob from using a certain class of WSs like self buffs or AoEs. Or a line of spells that penalized usage of a certain element when casting spells or using attacks

Though at the same time, I would limit their best offensive weapon skills to B or B+ max. I feel it would be better to have them focus on their Debuffs while being able to melee and with an A+ Skill they would rival a Drk's strength while being able to assist a party more.

Another thing I noted, you gave them a decent shield skill, but only one type of one handed weapon. Was this intentional or an oversight?

[DakAttack]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

Judgemaster



Judgemasters are masters of law and able to create and change law as they see fit on the battlefield. Whenever the allied forces were in dire situations, Judgemasters would help turn the tide of battle in thier favor by using enchanted cards to bend the law. These cards are not unlike the ones the lawless corsairs are known to employ.

Great Sword A+
Polearm B
Shield B
Club B+
Parrying C
Evasion D-

Magic Type - Advanced Law (Tool based, employing elemental cards)

Blunt Truth - Makes enemies weak to Blunt weapons. Cost 1 Earth, 1 Light Card
Piercing Justice - Makes enemies weak to Piercing weapons. Cost 1 Ice, 1 Dark Card
Cutting Law - Makes enemy weak to slashing weapons. Cost 1 Wind, 1 Ice card
Objection - Sends one detrimental effect cast on the Judgemaster or ally back to the enemy. Cost 2 Dark Cards
Reverse Ruling - A negative status ailment on any ally or judgemaster is changed to its opposite beneficial status. 2 Light Cards
Overrule - Returns the next attack made on Judgemaster to the enemy, be it magical or Physical. One light and one Dark card.
Turnabout - Weakens the target enemy to its own element, allies gain resistance to that element. 2 Light Cards + card of the enemy's Element.
Immunity - Allows an ally to ignore potential weather/day penalties. 2 Dark Cards.

Two Hour Ability - Death Penalty - Inflicts Doom status on the target enemy. Doom not effective on NMs. Additional effects: DEF down VIT down, Choke.

OK, the spells are semi-inspired by FFTA's Judgemaster and FFXII and I'd put most of the recasts up at 2 minutes due to power. Duration effects would be skill based - Law skill namely. In a way, this would be the yin to COR's yang. CORs play off the skills and spells of thier allies to turn the tide of battle, yet also bend the rules, giving some allies skills they wouldn't normally have. Judgemaster would change the playing field itself and reverse or null existing rules.

The weapon damage laws couldn't stack, you could only have one of the other and if the mob was already weak to a particular weapon type, the spell would not change anything for that mob. However, the application of another type would open up a new weakness for allies of a different weapon type.

Same thing for Turnabouts, the mob would only be weakened to its own element, something like Threnody or Elemental Ninjutsu could stack.

Objection is a sort of pseudo-Erase/Reflect while Overrule is a pseudo-Parry/Reflect. Reverse Ruling would turn Slow into Haste, DoTs to Regen, Blind to an Accuracy boost, etc. I guess you could say instead of a direct support class they're an indirect support/DD class. Indirect support spells I'd put at 1 minute recast.

I'll try to think of a few more spells and add them later, I didn't cover each elemental card.

Best concept yet. Hybrid DD/support?

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

To keep with the theme of "judge" I thought having having access to club/hammer type weapons would be rather appropriate and to keep with the idea of their blunt, piercing and slashing spells, I thought giving them access to each type would serve to compliment that aspect. And with all the sword users in the game, it seemed a bit much to give them swords, too. I had even considered Archery instead of Polearm, but thought Polearm seemed more appropriate as they'd be in heavy armor. Most Judges in FFXII used two-handers, if I recall correctly.

I wanted the theme behind them to be "turnabout" but to conform them a bit more deeply to Vana'diel, too, so many of the powers FFTA's Judgemaster Cid used aren't highlighted to true form. He was able to remove law penalties placed on allies (yellow cards) by other judges so I skewed that into reversing/reflecting attacks and penalties placed on allies.

I also wanted something that gave support, but didn't directly take away from the likes of RDM, BRD, WHM, DRK, BLM and thier enfeebling magics, so I though taking the elemental cards COR uses - which keeps in the theme of law cards from FFTA - and using them to play around with the rules instead. I thought this would also be a great way to get those cards a little more action.

I have a few more ideas, but I have some errands to run at the moment, I'll repost the original idea and expand on it a little later.

[Malacite]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

^^ sorry to derail this again, but realistically, the two most damaging weapons in FF should be Gun and Polearm.

Spears and Lances were the most deadly weapons around with Greatswords (or sword + shield) coming in at a close second. The reason for this was because of the functionality of the weapon. A reach weapon with a sharp metal tip acting as a focal point for all the energy of the attack.

Unlike other weapons, for example a sword, where any built up kinetic energy (or force of momentum, however you want to word it) is discharged upon striking an object along the entire blade (thus dispersing/spreading the force of the impact) a spear or lance forces all of it one point. This would often be enough to kill a man outright and possibly even damage whomever may have been behind the poor bastard (assuming the initial target was not wearing plate)


So DRG (and to a lesser extent SAM) really get the shaft in game. (hell even RNG)

The various jumps and polearm weaponskills should be second only to gun in power, but they're not. Bah! (Guns are fairly underpowered too I find, despite their already impressive damage. But this is a fantasy game made by SE so yeah, some things are going to get fudged)


Back on topic, that Judgemaster build is pretty cool.

[DakAttack]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

They should give bonuses to different kinds of damage. Piercing should have an increased critical chance.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

I'm liking the Judgemaster build. My only gripe is the Two-Hour: it seems kind of . . . weak and unnessecarily broken, at the same time. Of course, I'm glad it wasn't just a cop-out (forgive the pun) "Enhances Laws" sort of thing, either. How about something like "Arrest - Bans your opponent from acting for the duration of the ability?"

FFTA was an awesome game, by the way.

[Malacite]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

I don't agree with the 2-hour either, especially since there's a good chance SMN will be getting Zantetsuken as a new astral flow ^^ (Well, one can hope anyway)

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

OK, gonna do the revison here now.

Judgemaster



Judgemasters are masters of law and able to create and change law as they see fit on the battlefield. Whenever the allied forces were in dire situations, Judgemasters would help turn the tide of battle in thier favor by using enchanted cards to bend the law. These cards are not unlike the ones the lawless corsairs are known to employ.

Great Sword A-
Polearm B
Shield B
Club B+
Parrying C
Evasion D-

Job Abilties

Level 10 - Heart Strike - Next Attack is converted to HP and heals the nearest ally behind the Judgemaster. If no ally is present, the Judgemaster gains the benefit. Level 10 ability, Recast 2 mins

Level 20 Change of Venue - Using one elemental card, the Judgemaster may grant the weather effects of a day to its allies, ignoring current bonuses or penalties. Effect Duration 2 minutes, Recast 5 minutes.

Level 25 - Soul Strike - Next attack steals a buff from the enemy and grants it to the nearest ally behind the Judgemaster. If no ally is present, the judge is granted the benefit. Recast 3 Minutes.

Level 35 - Judgement Seal - Enhances the accuracy of next Turnabout spell.

Level 40 - Mind Strike - A fraction of the next attack's damage is converted to MP and granted to the nearest ally behind the Judgemaster. If no ally is present, the Judge gets the benefit. Recast 3 minutes

Level 50 - Elemental Turnabout - Using 2 element cards, the Judgemaster Weakens the target enemy to its own element and allies gain resistance to that element. Duration effect 3 mins, Recast 5 minutes.


Spell Type - Turnabout - Learned from books of law, employed with elemental cards.

Level 5 - Blunt Truth - Makes enemies weak to Blunt weapons. Cost 1 Earth Card, 1 Light Card, Recast 3 minutes

Level 10 - Objection - Sends one detrimental effect cast on the Judgemaster or ally back to the enemy. Cost 1 Dark Card, 1 Wind Card, Recast 2 minutes

Level 15 - Reverse Ruling - A negative status ailment on any ally or judgemaster is changed to its opposite beneficial status. 1 Light Card, Recast 2 minutes

Level 20 - Piercing Justice - Makes enemies weak to Piercing weapons. Cost 1 Ice, 1 Dark Card, Recast 3 minutes

Level 25 - Overrule - Returns the next attack made on Judgemaster to the enemy, be it magical or Physical. One light and one Dark card. Recast 2 minutes

Level 35 - Contempt - Amnesia Status placed on the enemy, Duration 30 seconds. 1 Dark Card, 1 Thunder Card. Recast 5 minutes

Level 40 - Cutting Law - Makes enemy weak to slashing weapons. Cost 1 Wind, 1 Ice card, Recast 3 minutes

Level 45 - Reverse Ruling II - The next three attacks made on an ally, physical or magical, will heal the ally instead of damaging them. 1 Light Card, 1 Water Card. Recast 2 minutes

Level 50 - Overrule II - The next three attacks made on the Judgemaster, magical or physical, will heal him instead of damage him. 2 Light Cards, 1 Water Card. Recast 2 minutes

Job Traits

Resist Silence I - IV
Accuracy Bonus at Level 10 and 30

Two Hour Ability - Death Penalty - Inflicts Doom status on the target enemy. Doom not effective on NMs. Additional effects: DEF down VIT down, Choke.

In this revision, I changed some of the spells to Job Abilities since I didn't give Judge any the first time around. I thought rather than load them up with Turnabout magic, I'd balance it with JAs. I'm allowing the potential for the more powerful abilities to be silenced, but left most support abilities as Job Abilties that cannot be silenced.

Much like Quick Draw and Phantom Roll, Elemental Turnabout and Change of Venue would be used in the same fashion and submenu, but would be treated as AoE buffs. The Judge would simply pick the Element and the cards would be consumed.

The Job abilites bring some positioning into play, similar to THF, but instead of stealing a buff as a THF would with Aura Steal, the Judge is acting as a conduit for its support abilities. This is to encourge some SATA play again and get mages to hop into the frontline on occasion for a cure or MP fix.

The tier II Turnabouts are placed just out of subjob reach not only to avoid abuse by /NIN whores, but hopefully to help Judges feel safe enough to go without /NIN. While the benefits of /NIN would still be there at 74, they could still have a means to mitigate damage and use a more appropriate subjob.

As before, I see this themed as a DD with indirect support abilties, but also the ability to turn the tables on the situation. The spell list looks skimpy, but overall I think when contrasted with the JAs, its just about enough. The recasts are long because of the power these abilities have and, really, I still want it to focus on DD.

50+ feels a little empty, but there's lots of jobs that are in that area as well. I think it would have enough tools by 50 to not need more til merit levels.

As for the Two Hour, I didn't want to get too generic. No job can really Doom anything right now and two hours are supposed to be for a pinch save/win. I loathe the idea of making it like Soul Voice or something, where Turnabouts just got stronger. A strong Defense down added effect also keeps in the theme of "turnabout." It would be stronger than Angon at first, like 40%, but the effect diminish over a two minute period.

[Malacite]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

As for the Two Hour, I didn't want to get too generic. No job can really Doom anything right now and two hours are supposed to be for a pinch save/win.

True, but like I said, SMN may yet get Zantetsuken (Odin's Astral Flow, assuming SE doesn't fudge things). It's still a novel idea though ^^b

[Dymlos]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

I've love your idea for Judgemaster job omg, it's awesome. ^^. But for Mystic Knight. The problem we have right now is S-E bastardize the job after FFV by weakening it to hell by throwing it in other job combos. I didn't mind how they did it with Steiner/Vivi in FFIX but I absolutely hated how they threw it in WAR in FFX-2. WAR was the worst job in FFX-2, throwing three different jobs into one. -_-.

It's great how you want to combine Mystic Knight with Swordmaster Ziero, but I personally would like to keep it the way it was in FFV.

[Malacite]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

Ditto

[DakAttack]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

Here's my submission, work in progress:

Duelist
In combat a Duelist strives to strike without being struck, and as such makes an excellent adventurer. Their rigid training and honorable nature rivals that of even the most loyal knights.

Purpose
The Duelist is another blood tank, and will provide other tanks with another sub option other than Warrior. The Duelist as a sub job is meant to provide very little in the way of offensive potential. Even a Warrior should have the ability to tank efficiently when subbing Duelist. Paladins and Ninjas may continue to sub Warrior for offensive ability, but may find Duelist more effective in different situations. Red Mages, and to a lesser extent Blue Mages, may also find the job a useful sub.

Skills
Sword: A
Shield: C+
Parrying: A
Evasion: C+

Job Abilities
Level 1: Black Card. Penalize an opponent. Lowers defensive skills.
Level 5: Salute. Challenge an opponent with a show of respect. Increases enmity.
Level 10: Lunge. Deal damage to one enemy with an increased chance of a critical strike.
Level 25: Body-to-Body. Increase tension by drawing closer to your opponent. Increases enmity and attack, but lowers defense.
Level 40: Disarm. Disarm an opponent. Lowers attack.

Job Traits
Level 1: Freehand. With the use of a single sword increase evasion skill by five.
Level 10: Parry Mastery. Increases parry skill by two.
Level 15: Parry Mastery II. Increases parry skill by an additional two.
Level 15: Footwork. Increases evasion skill by two.
Level 25: Riposte. Counter an opponents attack after a successful parry.
Level 25: Parry Master III. Increases parry skill by an additional two.
Level 35. Indirection. Redirect an enemy's attack after a successful parry towards another enemy nearby.
Level 40. Parry Mastery IV. Increases parry skill by an additional two.
Level 40. Footwork II. Increases evasion skill by an additional two.
Level 50. Remise. Attempt to strike again after missing an opponent.
Level 60. Parry Mastery V. Increases parry skill by an additional two.


I know this is going to seem like a shot to the head for Red Mages, but I believe a job like this will be beneficial to everybody.

Comments and suggestions are definately welcome.

[Dymlos]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

Hey Dak, your Duelist Job sounds alot like Fencer from FFTA. Did you thought of trying to convert some of those abilities into Duelist? http://www.ffcompendium.com/h/jobs/ffta.shtml#fencer

[DakAttack]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

Fencer is more offensive.

I know Rdm AF is called Duelist, so that's a problem, and I think the job needs something a little more to help define it.

[Lmnop]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

Indirection has the ability to be absolutely awful, and Remise is just Zanshin. Perhaps change the latter out for some sort of "follow-through" attack that's actually the opposite of Zanshin. i.e. On a successful hit, small chance (probably 5% like Trick attack) to attack again. I'll leave the dueling terminology to you for naming it, since obviously Remise doesn't fit.

Actually, it'd be interesting if the job had lots of direct job abilities that could miss (you already have 1, but potential to make 3-4). And then Remise could actually be a job ability that calls back one just used, for another shot at it.

In general, I like the idea, but considering where the game is, I wonder if we could get something similar to this with a completely out-of-left-field background.