Fleshed-out Job Concepts

[Ziero]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

Awesome ideas Zero ^^b I never considered the FFT Sword Arts, and I had completely forgotten about Shock and how freaking brutal that ability was back in FF6/9
One thing I noticed that you did differently though was the spellblade selection; you took out the tier 4 nukes. I can't say I approve of that since the job previously had access to them along with lv 6 magic. (Flare/Holy/Aspir sword) Now they could be done as merits I suppose, but I loathe the very concept of merit spells.

Mainly this is for two reasons:
1) I want to keep Tier IV magics something unique to Blm

2) Tier I nukes, they're not that strong, so Tier I Spellblades need a bit of a boost to be effective as a DoT attack. As such the other Tiers would get a slight increase as well sort of lessening the need for a Tier IV of the spells.

Over all great job I have to say ^^ I hate to admit it but I must tip my hat to you sir. One thing still strikes me as odd though; You gave the job access to Great sword and Great Katana as opposed to dagger.
Since spellblade works off of weapon damage, wouldn't giving the job access to those kinds of weapons be pushing the envelope? Sure they have higher delay, but that might not matter when you have 80+ base damage and cast something like Thunder 3/4 on your weapon >. >b

The lower skill level and limited weapon types will be the limiting factor in their use of Gsword and Gkatana weapons. I just gave them access to those weapons as I saw Mystic Knights as the masters of sword, and those are types of swords to me. Daggers are daggers, and I don't see them being as needed by Knights.

Yes I realize BPs work the same way, but at the same time those are the SMN's spells, they dont get BPs AND extra spells along with it.
Edit:And not only that, but you have 3 different types of these abilities (Mighty, Magic, and Mystic) which leaves the Mystic Knight with the ability to do three different kinds of attacks, in addition to the Spellblade. SMN can only do 1 attack and 1 buff every min (not counting the BP- timers.)

But that's the thing, a Smn can do 2 specials per minute where the Mystic Knights shortest duration recast is two minutes on it's own for it's, arguably, weakest set of Sword Techniques. The Mighty Sword set is mainly for the Status attacks, which can't stack seeing as none will last the 3 minute recast. The Magic Sword set only finds true strength in being Bursted, or the Drain one for some slight HP regain. And the Mystic Sword set, which is the strongest, has a 4 minute recast, which is every two to three fights in an exp pt and is also limited by the fact most have an AoE affect and need to be used sparingly in certain areas. I see no real difference with this compared to a Drg/Sam using WS+Meditate+Jump+high jump+WS or a Blu using a self SC+Burst every minute or so.

The Spellblades are the MSKs main attack and do the majority of the damage, the Sword Techniques are bonus damage when an instant hit is needed. I see it as a nice balance.

[Tokitoki]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

I see it as an overkill. The fact that they haev attacks to do damage on top of their Spellblades is totally different from a SMN who does damage every minute. In a single minute it's more than possible to gain 100% TP with a sword. Think about how many attacks that is with the designated tier of spellblade. Now think about the added damage that could be done with the use oft he abilities you gave them. If you really only wanted the Mighty Sword techniques to be about the status effect, then don't have them do damage.

As far as the comparison to DRG/SAM and BLU. BLU uses the spells as it's main source of damage. The extra melee attacks and what not are usually not the strongest attacks. As far as SC+MB goes, Ive yet to see any BLU, even in my own LS, do a self-SC and then a self burst. Most of the time the damage is better when it's just the spell alone and they aren't worrying about bursting.

The DRG in that scenario can only do that once every 5 mins, unless they want a great deal of hate. You have Mystic Knight set up with abilities such as Stoneskin to keep the consequences to a minimum for doing a large amount of damage in a small amount of time. You also gave them access to heavy armor which will increase their defense.

If you want it to be a DD then make it a DD, don't make it a Fighter/Tank/Mage that can do large amounts of damage, wear heavy armor, and cast stoneskin.

[Ziero]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

I see it as an overkill. The fact that they haev attacks to do damage on top of their Spellblades is totally different from a SMN who does damage every minute. In a single minute it's more than possible to gain 100% TP with a sword. Think about how many attacks that is with the designated tier of spellblade. Now think about the added damage that could be done with the use oft he abilities you gave them. If you really only wanted the Mighty Sword techniques to be about the status effect, then don't have them do damage.

From my understanding, the only way to get 100tp with a one handed weapon in under a minute reliably without Meditate is with Tons of haste, Double/Triple attack gear, Multi-hit weapons and Dual Wield bonuses. Since Dual Wield is already ruled out of the situation, Da/Ta aren't reliable, Multi-hit weapons are rare(they wouldn't gain access to Ridill with this set up anyway) and anyone can get ubar haste, I don't see this as too big of a problem. And the Dmg from the Mighty Swords is to offset the 3 minute timer for some basic debuffs.

As far as the comparison to DRG/SAM and BLU. BLU uses the spells as it's main source of damage. The extra melee attacks and what not are usually not the strongest attacks. As far as SC+MB goes, Ive yet to see any BLU, even in my own LS, do a self-SC and then a self burst. Most of the time the damage is better when it's just the spell alone and they aren't worrying about bursting.

The Blu in my LS does it CONSTANTLY, as in every chance he gets. And it does great dmg. Blus self SC+Burst better then Sams.

The DRG in that scenario can only do that once every 5 mins, unless they want a great deal of hate. You have Mystic Knight set up with abilities such as Stoneskin to keep the consequences to a minimum full doing a large amount of damage in a small amount of time. You also gave them access to heavy armor which will increase their defense.
If you want it to be a DD then make it a DD, don't make it a Fighter/Tank/Mage that can do large amounts of damage, wear heavy armor, and cast stoneskin.

Drgs can jump all hate away and can wear most heavy armor except plate, but it takes more then heavy armor and SS to be an effective tank anyway and a MSK can only fire off all his abilities once every 4 minutes. The similarities are there, the precedents have been set by other jobs. Though I do understand how this can be seen as overpowered. Pehaps adding an extra minute to Mystic Sword, which would mean a MSK couldn't only self SC+Burst once every 5 minutes, while adding MP costs to Magic Sword would help limit their power some.

[Lmnop]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

Some duration spells (giving very little reason to be casting a lot) and a job ability roughly once/minute. That's not bad.

You want overkill? Go take a look at BLU's spell list. Go watch them "cast" Weapon skills with around 16 times the MP efficiency of BLMs. And then check out how they get to have fun finding their own traits, as well as choosing what stats they get.

And don't try to keep comparing this to SMN. Summoner isn't the pinnacle of incredible job development.

[Ziero]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

Smn isn't a bad job, but it could use some tweaking. My best idea, as someone who's never lvled it past 1 mind you, is to just give each Avatar it's own BP timer. Their limiting factor could be it's MP cost plus Summoning time.

Also, making Avatar melee efficiancy based on Summoning skill would probably help out, a lot.

[Tokitoki]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

A one-handed weapon doesn't take long to attack. Before I had Triple Attack on THF I was able to get TP in around 50seconds. With one Triple Attack usually around 45 secs, and so on. This was admittedly with Dual-Wield, but even the fact that you are doing multi-tiered Spellblades, gaining TP, and have these Job Abilities that do damage is a little overboard. You're jsut trying to make it keep up with BLU it seems, which is already a pretty broken job. We don't need any more.

I also think you have what a "burst" is confused. Since SAMs can't burst, I believe you are jsut thinking of teh skillchain itself. These two things are totally different.

And, as I said, DRGs can only Jump away teh hate every 5 minutes. Thus leaving this ability to only be available every 5 minutes. So even if they attempted it every 3 minutes, they would be dead unless the mob was killed before they were. DRG doesn't have access to heavy armor btw. They have access to light/medium armors including Harness sets. Scale is a medium armor, plate is heavy armor.

I wasnt the first to compare it to SMN, he was. We shouldn't be trying to make a job that is as broken as BLU is. Just because one job is like that doesn't mean every job from now on should have the ability to self-SC and burst while still using spells and melee to do damage.

[Ziero]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

A one-handed weapon doesn't take long to attack. Before I had Triple Attack on THF I was able to get TP in around 50seconds. With one Triple Attack usually around 45 secs, and so on. This was admittedly with Dual-Wield, but even the fact that you are doing multi-tiered Spellblades, gaining TP, and have these Job Abilities that do damage is a little overboard.

At what lvl with what equipment cause I'm gonna call BS on that. Unless you were dual wielding two 150 delay daggers, making use of the TP floor, all three of which options do not apply to this job idea, AND never missing at all, there's no way to do that. Even against VT mobs with Triple Attack, haste gear, haste spell I can't do that. Dual Wield offers no speed benefiet to this job. Most swords have higher delay then Daggers, especially High Dmg swords which a MSK would prefer to use, and haste gear can be used by everyone so there's nothing unfair there. That and the fact most Sword WS are on the weaker side, it's not that overpowered. The Spells don't stack, you can only have one active at a time so I don't see how their 'multi-tiered' really makes them overpowered.

You're jsut trying to make it keep up with BLU it seems, which is already a pretty broken job. We don't need any more.

Blue is broken because it can Self-buff, Self Heal, SC+MB constantly every minute on top of getting Double Attack, Haste, Auto-refresh/regen, Attack bonus etc etc etc naturally while using numerous multi-hit 'weapon-spells' AND numerous powerful debuffs, that no other job has, that all stack..and stun every 10 seconds all at the same time. If a MSK tries to heal itself based on my concept, it gives up Dmg, if it tries to regain MP it loses the SC, if it blinds the mob it can't lower it's def or stun it. Stoneskin is not that strong on it's own, it needs Phalanx or Cocoon to last against most mobs, but it could save the MSK some HP.

I also think you have what a "burst" is confused. Since SAMs can't burst, I believe you are jsut thinking of teh skillchain itself. These two things are totally different.

And I'm sort of insulted by this. I know what the difference between a Burst and Skillchain is. I know Sams can't burst, thank you.

And, as I said, DRGs can only Jump away teh hate every 5 minutes. Thus leaving this ability to only be available every 5 minutes. So even if they attempted it every 3 minutes, they would be dead unless the mob was killed before they were. DRG doesn't have access to heavy armor btw. They have access to light/medium armors including Harness sets. Scale is a medium armor, plate is heavy armor.

I was under the impression that Scale was heavy armor, that's my mistake for thinkin that. Regardless, it still provides decent Def, moreso then Leather or Banded Mail, which I know are Medium Armors.

As for Drg's ability, regardless of how much hate they can make, they can still lose *all* of it every 5 minutes, and half of it every 3. And they're considered a 'weaker' DD. So being able to pump out a large quanitity of Damage every 5 minutes isn't something that can be seen as overpowered in this game.

I wasnt the first to compare it to SMN, he was. We shouldn't be trying to make a job that is as broken as BLU is. Just because one job is like that doesn't mean every job from now on should have the ability to self-SC and burst while still using spells and melee to do damage.

My only comparison to Smn was how the JA menus and timers work, other then that this class and Smn are nothing alike.

[Tokitoki]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

I wrote out a whole long post but this stupid site said I wasnt logged in and deleted the whole thing. I dont have time right now to write it all out again as I go home in about 10mins and still have a bit of work to do but lets do some quick bullets.

-It's not my fault you cant gain TP quickly Try retweaking your gear. It is entirely possible.
-BLU dont get Double Attack unless you know some secret spell combination I've never heard of.
-If you know the difference between SC and Burst then dont say "BLU can SC+Burst better than SAM"
-DRG cant use High Jump to get TP AND lose some hate.
-I was just pointing out to Lmnop that I wasn't the one who first compared it to SMN. I agree the only thing in common is that it has timed JAs to use different "spells."

[Ziero]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

-It's not my fault you cant gain TP quickly Try retweaking your gear. It is entirely possible.

Pre Triple Attack, the only possible way to get 100 tp in less then a minute is to use Dual Wield w/ 2 150 delay daggers making use of the TP floor, Rap Harness, one of the haste belts, have haste/march cast on you and *never* miss. Out of all those, only two are applicable to this job concept, as they are to *all* jobs in game. Though it's more feasible to gain 100 tp in less then a minute for a haste/Da/Ta pimped out thf at 75, that still is something that's not that unique, special or overpowering. MSK doesn't gain as big a bonus from Dual Wield, can't equip the 150 delay Rdm/Drg Fluerets, and can't make use of the TP floor. None of their special attacks increase their TP and they'll want swords with the highest DMG, which also have the highest Delay, to increase the effect of their Swordspells. And lets not forget that Vorpal and Savage Blade aren't exactly the most powerful WS.

-BLU dont get Double Attack unless you know some secret spell combination I've never heard of.

Coulda sworn they did, if not oh well, they still have everything else I mentioned *and then some* making them overpowered.

-If you know the difference between SC and Burst then dont say "BLU can SC+Burst better than SAM"

A Blu *can* SC+Burst better then a Sam because Sams can only self SC once every three minutes and have no ability to burst at all. I seriously did not feel that concept needed further explination.

-DRG cant use High Jump to get TP AND lose some hate.

High jump deals Damage, gains TP and lowers hate all at once. Super Jump completely erases hate. That means they can do that super-multi-attack I mentioned and have no consequence in terms of hate. And they're *still* considered the weakest melee DD.

This job was to keep up with straight up melee DDs who don't suffer from resists or are limited by MP. As is, having it's JAs on different timers makes it difficult for the MSK to blow all their attacks at once effectively as they will have minor effects in parties. And the Mighty Sword set would be all but useless if it didn't do damage, because being able to blind or Bind a mob once every three minutes isn't that great on it's own, though arguably the Def down one will be used the most. As is, they'll rely more on their Spellblades for most of their DoT while throwing out a MB attack, minor debuff w/ Dmg or a halfway decent 'Weapon Ability', out once a fight. Certainly nothing jobs already in game can't do with far more efficiancy.

[Tokitoki]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

Right SAM can't Burst at all so you dont say "BLU can SC+Burst better than SAM" because SAM is unable to MB. The fact that you even compared BLU to SAM through the use of MB is idiotic.

DRG will still gain a signifcant amount of hate if they are to WS Jump High Jump Meditate then WS again. Meditate and High Jump timers are 3mins, Super Jump is 5 mins. They can't feasible do this every 3 mins because theym would not have SUper Jump ready.

Also, if you're using High Jump you'll shed an amount of hate, then the damage done by High Jump will give you back some of that hate, then you're going to WS again which adds more hate. There is certain hate associated with this chain of abilities, and the consequences are the usage of MP and/or death if the mob is not killed fast enough.

As is, they'll rely more on their Spellblades for most of their DoT while throwing out a MB attack, minor debuff w/ Dmg or a halfway decent 'Weapon Ability', out once a fight.

They should be relying on their Spellblades int eh first place if thats the whole point of this job. Malacite originally came up with the concept because he liked the use of Spellblades, not because he felt the game needed a new debuffer. If you think the Mighty Sword set will be useless without doing damage, then dont make it part of the job. There is no reason that every ability has to do some sort of damage.

Does Shadowbind do damage? no. Does Shadowstitch do damage? yes, but not much more than a single melee attack usually. Acid Bolts are the only thing that do Def down and damage, and you're paying for them.

The fact that you basically want the job to do everything just like a BLU is what I dont understand. If you want the job to debuff, attack, MB, and use WS, then jsut play BLU.

[Ziero]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

Right SAM can't Burst at all so you dont say "BLU can SC+Burst better than SAM" because SAM is unable to MB. The fact that you even compared BLU to SAM through the use of MB is idiotic.

I compared them in terms of SKILLCHAIN AND MAGICBURST effectiveness. Where Sam is supposed to be the 'masters' of WS and SCs, Blu have them beat AND can burst on top of that.

DRG will still gain a signifcant amount of hate if they are to WS Jump High Jump Meditate then WS again. Meditate and High Jump timers are 3mins, Super Jump is 5 mins. They can't feasible do this every 3 mins because theym would not have SUper Jump ready.
Also, if you're using High Jump you'll shed an amount of hate, then the damage done by High Jump will give you back some of that hate, then you're going to WS again which adds more hate. There is certain hate associated with this chain of abilities, and the consequences are the usage of MP and/or death if the mob is not killed fast enough.

The fact of the matter is a Dragoon can *still* do tons of damage with out hate. Even if Super jump isn't used they can *still* shed a LARGE amount of hate *while* doing damage and gaining TP. WS, Meditate, Jump, High Jump, WS again, which can be done every three minutes, means they can lose about half their hate so that when they do land that last WS they're not going to instantly be slaughtered. A Drg's protection is it's ability to shed it's hate, which is a skill one one other job can actually do.

They should be relying on their Spellblades int eh first place if thats the whole point of this job. Malacite originally came up with the concept because he liked the use of Spellblades, not because he felt the game needed a new debuffer. If you think the Mighty Sword set will be useless without doing damage, then dont make it part of the job. There is no reason that every ability has to do some sort of damage.

They *are* relying on the Spellblades for those 2, 3 and 4 minutes between recasts of their JAs. The Mightysword set was an answer to the concepts of Status Spellblades, which would otherwise conflict with normal casted status spells. Giving them some Dmg, and a 3 minute timer, makes them different and useful.

Does Shadowbind do damage? no. Does Shadowstitch do damage? yes, but not much more than a single melee attack usually. Acid Bolts are the only thing that do Def down and damage, and you're paying for them.

There are lots of attacks that deal status Damage, infact there's entire lines of weapons that add status ontop of normal swings...including Defense Down. You can also spam Acid Bolts constantly, can't spam a 3 minute recast JA.

The fact that you basically want the job to do everything just like a BLU is what I dont understand. If you want the job to debuff, attack, MB, and use WS, then jsut play BLU.

Or Drk? Or Nin? Or Smn? Or Rdm? I could go on. Being able to do multiple things isn't something that makes Blu unique, it's the fact they can do everything and do it *better* then most that makes them overpowered. MSK, with this concept, can't self SC better then Sam, can't MB better then Blm, can't debuff better then Rdm and can't flatout out DD most other jobs. But it can do a little of everything with a main focus on damage. Other then using Swords and having the ability to self SC+Burst...once every 4 minutes...this job is *nothing* like Blu. Stoneskin isn't a gamebreaking spell, it can't stack a dozen different unique debuffs on a mob, can't reliably heal itself, can't haste itself, can't use numerous different Stuns AND Dispels, and can't get Auto-refresh/regen naturally. MSK is a melee/magic DD with *some* self protecting buffs and minor debuffs, Blu is in a totally different class of broken.

[Tokitoki]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

-High Jump will not rid them of enough hate. I don't know where you got half from, but from playing with a friend of mine, he can High Jump and still ahve a substantially amount of hate. It is by no means hate-free.
-The add effects on weapons do not proc once every few minutes, you're lucky if they proc once every 20 most of the time. There is a large difference between them.
-Acid bolts cost money and can only be stacked 2 or 3 times. The def down status will then stop. It can also be totally resisted by certain mobs and the damage rating on the bolt itself is not very high.
-The point wasnt it that it could do multiple things, but it does those multiple things with greater efficiency than the jobs you mentioned (in terms of jobs that actually do all these). A DRK is not about to MB, their Elemental Magic skill isnt that high and tehy dont get good spells for it, yet you made a line of attacks with the sole purpose of being able to MB.
The only time NIN has respectable magic damage is early 40s or when totally pimped out on INT and other MAB gear. This causes them to stop meleeing.
SMN we went over a few times already.
RDM doesnt attack in PTs and doesn't have any of the better WS.

Do the NIN's debuffs do damage? No.
Do the RDM's debuffs do damage? No.
Do SMNs have the ability to use 3 BPs at once if they pleased? No.
I'm not even sure why you brought up DRK other than it has magic.

[Ziero]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

-High Jump will not rid them of enough hate. I don't know where you got half from, but from playing with a friend of mine, he can High Jump and still ahve a substantially amount of hate. It is by no means hate-free.

It still sheds hate, erasing some of their hate and allowing them to do more damage with less risk. And of course, 5 minutes or not, Super Jump. I don't see how having a 5 minute limit on Drgs doing obscene amounts of dmg is any different from MSK having the same limits. And again, this is the job that most people in game see as the 'weakest' melee DD. Not counting Pup.

-The add effects on weapons do not proc once every few minutes, you're lucky if they proc once every 20 most of the time. There is a large difference between them.

Some weapons yes, others no. I know acid and Def down weapons like to proc alot. I've seen it myself, repeatedly. Hell my Drain weapons go off all the time.

-Acid bolts cost money and can only be stacked 2 or 3 times. The def down status will then stop. It can also be totally resisted by certain mobs and the damage rating on the bolt itself is not very high.

But they still do Damage and can be used repeatedly. And who said that the MSK's def down couldn't be resisted?

-The point wasnt it that it could do multiple things, but it does those multiple things with greater efficiency than the jobs you mentioned (in terms of jobs that actually do all these). A DRK is not about to MB, their Elemental Magic skill isnt that high and tehy dont get good spells for it, yet you made a line of attacks with the sole purpose of being able to MB.
The only time NIN has respectable magic damage is early 40s or when totally pimped out on INT and other MAB gear. This causes them to stop meleeing.
SMN we went over a few times already.
RDM doesnt attack in PTs and doesn't have any of the better WS.

And who said MSK would do everything with 'greater efficiency' then other jobs? They can only use *one* debuff every three minutes. That already takes them out of the debuffer race. They can only self SC once every 4 minutes, that puts them third, hell maybe even forth with Drg being able to jump for TP, in the self SC ability. They only have *one* tier of attacks that can burst, so they're already behind Smn, Blm, Rdm and Blu in that sense. There are *tons* of other jobs that do things a MSK, under this concept, could do only much much better. I think you're imagining the actual numbers a MSK would do to be far higher then I am.

Do the NIN's debuffs do damage? No.
Do the RDM's debuffs do damage? No.

No, but they stack. They can use Slow, Silence, Blind, Paralyze, Bind, Gravity, Poison etc etc etc all at the same time. That is a HUGE advantage over a one status+dmg per 3 minute ability. Their ability to debuff would be so weak it's gimped, and yet somehow you're making it seem like they could actually *compete* with Rdm and Nins, let alone Blu, in terms of Debuffing.

Do SMNs have the ability to use 3 BPs at once if they pleased? No.

No, they can only use two. Every minute. With stronger and more beneficial effects. Smns can use one BP to do massive Damage then another to give everyone in the party increased Accuracy. And a minute later, do another attack for massive damage and then give everyone Haste. A MSK could use all three abilities at once, then have nothing but Spellblade DoT for 2 minutes until one of their three timers is up. But even then that's comparing two different roles, Smns as the support don't need to unleash massive Dmg in short amounts of time...yet they still can. MSKs as DDs have *no* ability, outside of the Eleshield and Regen spells, to buff or heal their party.

I'm not even sure why you brought up DRK other than it has magic.

Drk *can* WS, Debuff, Attack and Burst. Absorb spells are decent Debuffs, their attack and WS are top notch and their burst may not be the best but they're still there. Just because it's not the best doesn't mean it can't, or shouldn't, use it's skills. And I heard Bursting with Drain is pretty damn sweet.

It seriously seems like you are inflating the concept of what the MSK job concept could actually do. It's Spellblades aren't actually hitting the mob with Fire III every swing, it's four debuffs will *never* be able to stack because none will ever last long enough to do so. It's Burst will be equivalent to tier II-weak tier III spells, and are subject to accuracy AND elemental resists. And it's Mystic Sword attacks, being both magic and melee, have to go through both Magic and Melee defenses as well as having the added penalty of being mostly AoE attacks. The AoE range on them might not be big, but it could still be trouble in crowded zones. Just casting spells on their sword *could*, and is imo, too close to an ability Rdm already have to create an entire job around it, so I added those special attacks to give them a more defining and unique style of attacks. Though the actual damage numbers may need tweaking, the concept itself is far from being broken.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

DRG will still gain a signifcant amount of hate if they are to WS Jump High Jump Meditate then WS again. Meditate and High Jump timers are 3mins, Super Jump is 5 mins. They can't feasible do this every 3 mins because theym would not have SUper Jump ready.

As of October 2006 update, Super Jump was lowered to a 3 minute recast.

Acid Bolts are the only thing that do Def down and damage, and you're paying for them.

Yes, at the hefty sum of 1.4k minimum (Ramuh) and 3.5k max (Quetzecoatl). You make it sound like people are paying out the nose for them.

[Ziero]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

Honestly, I just think he's seeing these abilities doing far more damage then I see them doing. Which if each attack was equivalent to some super strong WS then I could see the problem, but as is that's not what I saw them as. The first ones would be similar to as Status WS, which was noted as doing almost normal damage anyway. The Magic Sword ones I described already and the Mystic ones would be like WS of an equal nature as they should be due to their 4 minute recast and small AoE nature.

But again, as I suggested earlier, if that's still too powerful as is an added MP cost to Magic Sword and added minute recast to Mystic Sword would be more then enough to balance them out.