Fleshed-out Job Concepts

[Aeni]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

I don't think anyone wants it to be essential to be standing on plant matter in order to cast Hell Ivy. If anything, it'd just boost the effect.

I think I already mentioned this above:

However, the elemental day of the week ought to have some say over a Geomancer's effect and should play some role determining the success and failure of those abilities.

Developing a bonus system for using the "correct" terrain with the abilities should be a good step in the right direction. Let's also develop a system of "penalties" for using abilties on the "wrong" terrain as well (but not to severe)

What I was trying to say is that for dungeons and BCs, we need to add something if a job class like GEO gets introduced, because they would be utterly robbed of using their abilities to the fullest potential without advancing past level 1.

Having to factor weather in would be too cumbersome and complicated. That's additional data coming through an already congested 56K-capped line. We don't need it and it's not warranted.

Instead, it's quite easy for SE to replace the texture maps of existing areas to allow for more diverse terrain in dungeons and BCs. They allow for certain abilities of a GEO to receive bonuses from using the right affinity combinations.

In fact, to make it simple as possible, we could create an affinity system akin to the renkei system, where certain types of weaponskills, when their affinity matches, produces different levels of renkei, like Distortion or Gravitation. So, a GEO using an ability from a family of abilities with an affinity for a certain terrain. One ability could possibly receive bonuses from more than one type of terrain, with the reward differing depending on how close or far it is from the optimum affinity value.

If you still want to add in a certain "challenging" element to a GEO's playstyle, then also make it so that their abilities can either participate in renkei or receive bonuses as a magic burst effect. Add in buff/debuff components to those abilities as well, lending additional bonuses to successful renkei. There's still a lot of room here for creativity without adding in complications like the weather system.

All of this does not require additional data, as it's already in place for many job classes already.

[Malacite]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

Not having weather work with Geomancy would be a crime. No FF game has ever had weather effects like this before, so why not take advantage of it?

[Ziero]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

Actually, weather affects already modify in game spells while inside dungeons and such already. That's the reason why elementals can spawn in castles and caves, the weather effects are already in place for those zones. All that would be needed would be adding these influences, though not the weather itself, to a few more zones.

For Promys just give them the same effects as the zones they're found in. (Dem has kon, holla has lathiene, mea has taharongi, vhazl has Xarca/glacier). Starting zones could have weather based on their areas (Gusta = fire/earth, Saru = water/wind, Ronfa = wind/water). Sea has ele weather, as does sky...so what's really left?

[Malacite]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

I posted this just a while ago in another thread.

Dancer

Dancer has always been the reverse of Bard, and I don't think that should change.
>.> it would be cool if they kept their traditional weapons too (Whips) along with daggers.
As for spells...
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/D...asy_Tactics%29
http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/D...l_Fantasy_V%29
Quote:
* Tempting Tango - Confuses every enemy. Always works.
* Jitterbug Duet - Drains HP from the enemy.
* Mystery Waltz - Drains MP from the enemy.
* Sword Dance - Attack for four times the damage.
Quote:
Witch Hunt: Dance causes MP damage with a mysterious costume.
Wiznaibus: Dance causes HP damage with powerful dance steps.
Slow Dance: Dance lowers enemies' Speed level by confusing them
with slow dance movements
Polka Polka: Dance with vivacious moves. Lowers physical attack power.
Disillusion: Dance lowers enemies' magic attack power by distracting
them with a mysterious costume.
Nameless Dance: Dance with unexplainable moves. Causes various
abnormal status.
Last Dance : Ultimate dance. Turns enemies' CT count to 0.
All of those are easily implemented. For Last Dance, they'd just change it to a TP reset, or make it reduce an enemy's TP over time similar to plague but more potent.
As for abilities:
Quote:
A Save: Raise physical attack power.
Brave Up: Raise Brave.
Jump +3: Increase jump elevation by 3.
Fly: Leap over enemies and obstacles.
Quote:
Flirt:Charm enemies to make them forget about attacking.
Confuses one enemy.
Dance: Perform dances that bewitch enemies.
The tactics abilities (above) are a bit tricky. The only thing I can think of is a passive attack trait. As for Flirt from FFV, that's easy enough. It would be a JA that could act like the killer traits and terrorize the mob, or it could be an enmity reducing ability either for the Dancer or for a target party member.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

Off topic, but the Simpsons Movie is one of the funniest movies of all time. Go and see it ASAP!


Back on topic, while giving higher tier enspells would be cool, it's just not the same thing. I really want to stay true to the job mechanically and flavorfully because it's my favorite job ever in the FF series (used to be RDM until SE made it the way it is in 11. RDM was never as weak with melee as it is in 11 and that pisses me off)

Agreed. Even the lolRDM of FFTA could Melee better than the Red Mages in this game, as far as I've seen.

So I think that we can agree that improving Red Mage's Melee in general is more important than improving the Enspells.

As for Mystic Knight vs Redmage...again...seeing as Spellblade and En-spells can be seen as two different types of spells, they shouldn't interfere with each other. A rdm will still have their En-spells if Malacite's MSK is added, and they would still be the only job with them. It's similar to complaining that Drk get soul eater (a ja that ups Att at the cost of Def) to spite War's Berserk(another JA that ups Att at the cost of Def). They're similar ideas, but will be executed differently, creating two unique lines of spells. Seriously, nothing about those two jobs would have to overwrite or compete with each other, both jobs would use their spells for different purposes.

OBJECTION!!

Enspells and Spellblade are, at essence, the exact same thing. You rebuild the Enspells from the ground up, and you have the same thing as your Spellblade. Calling it by a different name would merely be a waste of memory.

Also, it's a fallacy to claim that Enspell:Spellblade::Berserk:Souleater. Enspells and Spelblades are the same thing: power up your sword with a spell. The only other way in the game to fight Melee-style Magically is through physical Blue Magic spells.

Berserk and Souleater, however, are completedly different: Berserk sacrifices 15% Defence for the sake of 15% Attack; Souleater sacrifices a percentage of HP in order to convert that directly in to damage dealt from your weapon.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

RDM doesn't need melee improvements. RDM has all the subjobs and equipment they need to be a formidable melee. RDMs need to make thier own PTs in areas where thier talents can be highlighted. If you want to melee, if you want to keep TP and recover MP too, you need Signet zones.

If you take the easy invites and play the submissive Pink Mage, you will never get to do what you want in PT. No amount of changes SE makes will change that.

And no, Enspells and Spellblade are not the same thing. One is Phyiscial damage + a laughable 15ish magic damage. Spellblade replaces physical damage for a fraction of nuke damage. The spell becomes the sword, replaces the physical element of the sword.

Its not a hard concept to grasp. Go look at Quick Draw. The bullet and gun DMG influence what becomes a purely magical shot. No bullet is actually used, but the elemental card in its stead. Spellblade, when active, would turn the sword into pure magic damage like Quick Draw would for bullets. When spellblade isn't active, the sword goes back to standard physical damage.

[Malacite]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

>.> good point BBQ, I hadn't even thought of the similarity between Spellblade and QD. So I guess a model for it is already in the game more or less. It just needs to be tweaked.

I have to disagree on the RDM melee though. It really wouldn't kill SE to give them a slight boost, or maybe more incentive to sub WAR for more melee power through new job abilities. They need to start with increasing their sword skill to A- and maybe, just maybe, giving RDM a rating in Staff Skill instead of it being non-existent.


EDIT: Maybe Ziero meant Last Resort? It's basically the same thing as berserk but gimped and it generates a stupid amount of hate.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

The thing is, the Enspells shouldn't be stuck at that laughable 15-ish Magic damage that BBQ pointed out. Especially at endgame levels.

But, I see what you mean now. One adds, the other changes. I don't know why it took BBQ to explain that in a way I understood . . . all the other explanations made each technique look exactly the same.

As for Staff Skill . . . NO!

[Armando]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

I don't know why it took BBQ to explain that in a way I understood . . . all the other explanations made each technique look exactly the same.

I know why; It's because you didn't read properly in the first place.

Malacite's original explanation:

About Spellblade:

...

Essentially your physical attacks are "converted" into whatever spell you cast, but still retain the properties of your weapon and are also subject to whatever buffs you have on. This also means that if you're fighting a mob with high magic defense, or using an element they resist, well then your damage is going to go down the crapper.

Still, it seems most people didn't realize the difference when they read that, so it's forgivable that you didn't find that clear enough. However...

From Proposed Builds Part 2: Mystic Knight page 2, post #30 (07-18-2007, 6:22 PM)

In all fairness, the OP's proposed Spellblade model is not physical damage with pitiful elemental damage as a side effect, but rather turning melee damage into purely magical damage, which has very different implications.

That was pretty clear. But just in case it wasn't, Bbq reiterated that point only 4 minutes later just to make sure everyone understood what I meant:

Post #31:

/nod

Armando wins the box of Thin Mints today. The sword would not Enfire, the sword would become Fire.

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

In my defense, an explanation like "the Sword becomes the spell Fire" seemed a little broken the way that was worded.

[Malacite]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

Well, in all fairness... [B]it was broken as hell in FFV ./B] But only when combined with Dual Wield and Rapid Fire which allowed for 8 swings of Holy/Flare Sword in one attack round. You could potentially do over 80k damage per attack round doing this per character I believe. On it's own it's just a unique buff.

And the ability will only work on swords and daggers, so no equipping a Kraken Club (though the low base damage would actually offset the multi hitting somewhat) and abusing it to hell. I'm not so worried about Joyeuse or Ridill, since Ridill is pretty damned hard to obtain and subbing MSK shouldn't give any higher than tier 2 nukes if even all of them (similar to subbing BLM)


at least you finally got my point though and we can stop the silly argument. Though now I have to wonder what RDM will get in WotG, because SE promised all the jobs would be getting new spells (well, the ones that can cast durr) though I wonder if that means new ninjutsu or songs too...

I'd love to see RDM get Regain. Lord knows they'd be able to sub WAR finally in merits and cast regain on themselves along with enspells to bust out some half decent damage. Adjust skillchains so they no longer suck and bam! We have a kick ass all-round class.

That's the big issue with RDM at the moment. It's suppost to be able to take the place of other jobs, but it really lags a bit too much in the tanking and melee departments. Obviously it shouldn't be on par with NIN or PLD in tanking, or a RNG in damage dealing, but they're still far too weak. BLU should not edge out RDM in melee the way it does right now, that's BS. They should really be about even.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

No offense guys, but this thread is about ideas for new jobs. If you're looking for the RDM Bottomless Pit of Wants and Needs, they have a thread for that on the RDM forums.

"I'm a RDM. I have Haste, Dispel, Refresh, Tier IV White Magic and Tier III Black Magic. I can solo almost anything and get lots of invites. Woe is me."

/cue sorrowful violin

[Raydeus]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

Yeah what the heck, RDM is supposed to be jack-of-all-trades.

I want Bow skill raised to B+ and access to Bow WS without /RNG. We'll contribute to the party with our ranged dmg while buffing, debuffing and healing.

If they give us Refreshga we can just forget CORs even exist (not like there are too many of them running around anyway).

[Yellow Mage]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

"I'm a RDM. I have Haste, Dispel, Refresh, Tier IV White Magic and Tier III Black Magic. I can solo almost anything and get lots of invites. Woe is me."

I suppose that's why you quit the job, then.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

I levelled RDM to help a static, with people that ended up stabbing me in the back. Hurts when you do something for friends and they don't appreciate it.

I have no further obligation or reason to play it. I barely enjoyed it while I did. I found RDM solo to be a bore compared to BST and DRG solo, if you want to solo something in 5 minutes that a DRG could kill in one, more power to you, its not interesting to me.

At any rate I played it well, but the fact it was growing into the bitch healer role made it even less appealing to me.