Fleshed-out Job Concepts

[DakAttack]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

Indirection has the ability to be absolutely awful, and Remise is just Zanshin. Perhaps change the latter out for some sort of "follow-through" attack that's actually the opposite of Zanshin. i.e. On a successful hit, small chance (probably 5% like Trick attack) to attack again. I'll leave the dueling terminology to you for naming it, since obviously Remise doesn't fit.

Actually, it'd be interesting if the job had lots of direct job abilities that could miss (you already have 1, but potential to make 3-4). And then Remise could actually be a job ability that calls back one just used, for another shot at it.

In general, I like the idea, but considering where the game is, I wonder if we could get something similar to this with a completely out-of-left-field background.

The terminology is from Fencing, so it wouldn't be a stretch to name it Fencer. A remise is a second strike following a missed strike, so perhaps it's synonymous with Zanshin? I didn't mean for it to occur on every miss though. It would be fine if it only applied to Lunge and Disarm.

Indirection has nothing to do with Fencing, but I thought it would put a twist on the concept of Duelist. One would think dueling is between two people, but that's not always the case in these games.

I suppose Riposte and Indirection should only have about a fifty percent chance of occuring on a successful parry? As a tank the damage dealt from it wouldn't be overpowering, but as a sub job it definately could be. The chance to occur could be lowered when subbed just in case.

Anybody else have a name in mind, or want to write up a history for the job?

[Lmnop]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

To clarify: I like Riposte a lot and honestly would love to see it at 100% parry rate.

I know what a remise is (thank you Wiki), I just meant that in context of the game, another Zanshin with a different name probably isn't warranted. That's why I suggested making it a job ability instead.

Indirection aggroing creatures or even waking up sleeping creatures could be very bad. That's the problem with that.

Also, "Parry Mastery" should technically be called "Parry Bonus." Just like the other skil-increasing traits.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

Well, nine months of speculation and dreaming up our new jobs is about to come to an end. It'll be interesting to see what comes of today's announcements at TGS.

So let's review our hopefuls:

Dancer
Geomancer
Time Mage
Dancer/Geo Hybrid (i.e. Mog's job in FFVI)
Fencer
Berzerker
Judgemaster
Mystic Knight
Al/Chemist
Mime
...Yellow Mage

And now for our shameless TGS predictions.

Here are my three picks for the Most Likely jobs:

Chemist - it would bring a new healer class to the game and dabble in ranged weapons as well. Whether it be tool-based or based on temporary items, I think such a job would have great potential for a mage sub, giving WHM in particular the healing longevity it needs to keep up in fast-paced PTs and make other support classes more viable healers as well.

Time Mage - Its been discussed a lot and this one seems to be all but confirmed by SE. There are plenty of Time Magic left to add to the game and Time Mage could also stand to gain new tiers. This could shake up WHM, BRD, NIN and RDM just a little, but if Time mage is to be added, they should be the masters of that magic. I don't know if I like this addition, but its seems likely

Geomancer - Highly demanded by the players and SE listened to the demand for Blue Mage, so this is a logical job for them to pick.

However,

Wild Card Job - I'm willing to bet that one of those three jobs does not happen and SE suprises us like they did with PUP. It seems that our story is going to center a lot on the three nations yet again.

Geomancer or Time Mage would be a shoe-in for Windurst.
Chemist would suit Bastok.
But San'doria? None of those jobs fit that nation in theme.

Mystic Knight and Judgemaster would be interesting entries, but I think we're certainly going to get at least one curveball out of the three jobs.

Alternative speculation

Looking over the recent adjustments to COR, BST, PUP and two-handers could also be a hint of whats to come. COR got scaled to be as good as BRD or just blow them out of the water on buffs when they're lucky. BST and PUP got some very needed adjustments. And then two handers get buffed up.

So that makes me suspect they may be planning an new support class akin to BRD and COR, which you could push a concept like Dancer, Geomancer and Time Mage into.

I can't really think of why we'd want another pet job, we have four and its taken a looooong time to tweak them all out and the work still isn't completely done, particularly where SMN is concerned. However, BST and BLU still don't have a lot of competiton in the Monster Correlation realm.

Morpher and Pictomancer were other jobs that dealt with or could deal with Monster Correlation, though technically Relm's Pictomancer was really just another take on Beastmaster.

Still, I am suspicious of another pet job coming since SE had initially said in Picco's E3 interview that BST would have to wait until after WotG to be balanced against the new jobs and other changes. Damn, they caught some hell for that statement and did a 180 on that stance in August's update.

Why would they have planned to update BST so late if it wasn't being balanced against something in its realm? Or perhaps they dropped a pet job idea they had in favor of another job concept.

Finally, we have four jobs that mainly deal with two-handers. DRG, DRK, SAM and WAR. Could we see another soon? I don't think SE would have buffed two-handers across the board so hastily if another wasn't coming.

[Ziero]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

After today's news I feel Dancer is all but guarenteed, Which means I have to hurry up and post my Dancer concept before the real thing is fully revealed. And they've also strongly hinted at Time Mage from a previous interview, so I can see those two clearer then any other class being added.

And if they do add a third, I would say it would be a FFT stylized Geomancer. i.e. More of a rugged mountain-man type character over the funky blue-hatted, bell wielding job in previous games. As per my concept, using DD staves and Gaxes with a strong influence from the weather elements around them as well as the zone they're in.

[Ziero]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

I been workin on this for a while now (originally started Jul 24 2007) but never got around to finishing it up. But with the announcment of Dancer, a surprise to me really, I decided it was time to just clean up the edges and toss it out there. We still know very little about the actual class so all this information is 'original concepts' based on some other peoples ideas, but mixed and twisted with my own to create a working and unique job class. I didn't have time to fully lvl orginize the 'spell' list so I just left it categorized based on what the effect is. So, without further adieu, and better late then never, I give you Dancer!

Dancer

Dancer

Where Bards have been the ones singing the songs and raising the spirits of our heroes, Dancers have been the ones mesmerizing our enemies, weakening and destroying them slowly with their rhythmic and exotic movements. This class has always been physically weaker then others, but with speed and grace, they've held their own in battle. These assassins move to their own beats, using their bodies and motion to bring the enemy to its knees and slowly finish them off.

As Bard is a buffer with musical abilities, Dancer is the one who brings the pain. With numerous direct damage maneuvers and a myriad of powerful steps meant to weaken its foes, Dancer will be a strong, yet entertaining addition to parties. Unlike Bard, who can cast a song and move on, a Dancer must keep its motion for maximum effect. Though some songs and abilities will have instant results and lasting effects, the more powerful moves must be kept up to be at peak efficiency. This means a Dancer would have to juggle its damage dealing and enfeebling duties amongst numerous recasts and timers like no other job does. Using a JA, Spell, WS or any other action would result in the cancellation of a dance. Once a dance is stopped, any lasting effects would slowly wear off until completely removed. The longer a Dance is Active(i.e. the longer the Dancer danced) the longer the effects will last.

Job Abilities:
lvl 1 Fatal Fascination: Entices the target with a deadly dance. [2 hour recast/Duration varies]
This Dance allows the Dancer to turn any foe into an ally or at least halt the creatures attack for a period of time. Once used the Dancer will start dancing and the target will be affected by at least one of many, or possibly all, status effects. These effects include a powerful Bind, a non-elemental, longer duration Stun, an Amnesia like status that prevents the use of TP moves or spells, a simple light based sleep or an outright Charm. Once the dance begins, the status effects will take place and will remain until a short time after the Dancer stops, a maximum of 30 second dance with 10-20 second lasting effects, or until it is acted upon by another player. This move will be useful in stopping a battle in it's tracks when things go bad, allowing for either escape or regrouping.

lvl 40 Soft Steps: Allows silent movments to avoid and abandon detection[5 minute recast/Duration Varies]
This is similar to the Thf JA 'Hide' only it works on sound and sound aggro mobs. Just a simple little trick and nothing too overpowered.

Job Traits:

lvl 10/30/60 Subtle Blow I/II/III:

lvl 15 Stealth:

lvl 20/45 Dual Wield I/II:

lvl 25/50/75 Critical Hit Bonus I/II/III: Increases critical hit rate.
Dancer will be more of a frontline, high speed DD that can debuff while dancing rather then a back line 'mage-like' job. The increased criticals, on top of its’ dance induced damage and debuffs, will help make up for its’ lower DMG weapons and attacks.

lvl 50 Musical Affinity:Increased effectiveness of dances when a Bard is present.
Nothing more then a small nod to the two jobs past relationships. All Dance effects will receive a slight boost in strength when a Brd is in the PT. In contrast Brd would receive an 'Artistic Affinity' job trait at the same lvl that returned the favor by being partied with a dancer.

Dances:
This is the real strength of the job. The Dances that could be done will each have special and unique functions and abilities. Mostly focusing on dealing damage and weakening the monster, each Dance's effectiveness will be based on how long the Dancer was in motion, unless otherwise noted. While in motion, a Dancer may Auto-attack when in range with a minor attack speed penalty, but otherwise would be unable to perform any other action without stopping the Dance. And once a Dance was stopped the effect of that dance would slowly weaken until it was no longer in effect. Some Dances would have longer durations while others would wear fast, while others had instant effects that lasted a set time regardless to how long the Dancer was active.

Non-Elemental Damage:
Witch Hunt I/II/III/IV: Deals damage directly to a target's MP [Act]
Winzabius I/II/III/IV: Deals melee damage in conjunction to normal attacks [Act]

Elemental Damage:
Nightshade I/II/III: Deals darkness damage and inflicts Poison [Act]
Mermaid Minuet I/II/III: Deals Water damage [Act]
Fire Dance I/II/III: Deals Fire damage [Act]
Cold Feet I/II/III: Deals Ice damage[Act]
Thunder Roll I/II/III: Deals Thunder damage [Act]
Earth Shaker I/II/III: Deals Earth damage[Act]
Cloud Dancer I/II/III: Deals Wind damage[Act]

Status Down:
Stumbling Steps I/II: Lowers Evasion of the target [Act]
Debilitating Steps I/II: Lowers the Defense of the target [Act]
Defeated Steps I/II: Lowers the Magic Defense of the target [Act]
Thoughtless Rhythm I/II: Lower the Magic Accuracy of the target [Act]
Mindless Rhythm I/II: Lowers the Magic damage of the target [Act]
Writhing Rhythm I/II: Lowers Accuracy of the target [Act]
Staggering Rhythm I/II: Lowers the Attack of the target [Act]

Status Effect:
Restless Motion: Cause the target to Interrupt it's spell casting [Act]
Slow Dance: Reduces the movement speed of the target [Act]
Frantic Twist: Lowers the TP of the target [Act]
Nameless Dance: Inflicts a short duration Amnesia on the Target [Instant]
Disillusion: Removes one benefical status effect from target [Instant]
Flash Dance: Temporarily stuns the target [Instant]
Woeful Waltz: Inflicts a potent but short duration Paralyze on the target [Instant]

Buff:
Victory Dance: Grants TP Gain on one target [Instant/Single]
Enticing Motion I/II: Increases Enimity of the Dancer [Act/Self]
Soothing Sway I/II: Lowers the Enimity of the Dancer [Act/Self]
Nimble Twist I/II/III: Increases the Evasion of party members within range [Act/Party]
Shield Waltz I/II/III: Increases the Defense of party members within range [Act/Party]
Resilient Samba I/II/III: Increases the Magic Defense of party members within range [Act/Party]
Campfire Reprieve: HP gained while resting is increased [Instant/Party]
Moonlight Respite: MP gained while resting is increased [Instant/Party]

[Act] - Dances marked [Act] require the Dancer to continue their motion to keep their effects at their maximum. Once a dance is stopped, its’ effects will slowly wear off unless the dance is started a new. Thus a balancing of Dances will be needed to be at peak performance. If a Dancer chooses to stay with one dance, they'll need to ignore all their other debuffs. If they choose to activate too many, they will each wear off faster then they can be replaced.

Timers – Each [Act] type dance will have two timers, the simple [Recast] timer that all spells and abilities have and the Dance specific [Effect] timer. When an [Act] Dance is chosen, an effect timer will appear, when the timer fills the effect of the Dance will go off, either adding the status of the dance to the target or refreshing it to full strength. Right after the Dance is cast, the effect timer will restart again and start climbing back to full. Every time the timer reaches full, the Dance is refreshed. In the case of DD Dances, damage is done, and with status Dances, the effect is reset to full. The [Effect] timer is affected by Haste and Slow spells and gear, meaning you can increase or decrease the [Effect] timer to a certain point.

However, once a Dance is no longer active, it will still proc but slowly wear off. In the case of DD spells, the damage will be lower and the status spells will be less potent. Also, as soon as a Dance is stopped, it’s actual [Recast] timer will begin counting down. Meaning if you used a Dance with a recast of 3 minutes for a straight 3 minutes, you wouldn’t be able to recast the dance for another 3 minutes. This way a Dancer will be forced to juggle between different Dances for maximum effect.

[Instant] - Dances marked [Instant] are one time effects that occur once the dance is chosen and it's effects will only last for a short time with no way to extend or continue the dance. These Dances provide some of the rarer and more powerful effects in the Dancers arsenal. Once one of these Dances is used, it's effects take place and all other Active Dances will slowly start to wear off as usual and the Dancer themselves would revert back to normal combat actions until a new Dance is selected.

Stacking Dances - Part of a Dancer's uniqueness will be it's need to constantly change and balance the dances it uses to be at peak efficiancy. This means stacking numerous types of Dances on a target, however not every effect can stack. The two Non-Elemental Damage Dances can not be stacked, meaning one must be chosen to be used at a time. The Elemental Damage Dances can stack with Non-Elemental ones, but not with other Elemental Dances. They also only overwrite other Elemental Dances in accordance with the Elemental Circle. For example the Fire Dance can overwrite the Ice Dance, but not the Water Dance. The Darkness Dance overwrites all other Elemental Dances.

The Status Down effects can stack up to two at once, meaning a Dancer could choose to lower any combination of Acc, Att, Macc, Mab, Eva, Def or Mdef they choose. The Status Effect Dances can also stack fully with all other Dances, however using an [Instant] type Status Dance would cause all [Act] type dances to begin their recast count. Weakening the effects of all currently inflicted dances.

The Defensive Dances can be stacked with two lasting Bonuses in effect with a third [Act] effect being used, equalling a potential total of three bonus effects for a single party member. But to accomplish this a Dancer must continue to use a single Dance to gain that third effect.

Skills and Gear
Skills and Gear
B+ Dance
B+ Katana
B- Dagger
C- Sword
E- Staff
A- Evasion
B- Parry

As a light and nimble class, Dancer would gain access to most light and medium types of Armor. Leather, Cloth, Doublet and Harness gear would be their main equipment. They would not however be able to equip Robes or most other Mage class gear. With a strong need for Chr and Int boosting gear, the two basic stats that affect their Dances the most, a Dancer would gear up similar to a Brd or Bst.

Their weaponry would consist of mainly Wakizashi(sp) type Katana, with Kris, normal Dagger and Baselard type daggers. There would also be a new type of Katana added called Chakrams. Similar to the throwing weapons, they would be circular blades and for the most part Dancer JSE weapons. They would feature low dmg, low delay ratios with stats directly beneficial to the Dancers most powerful weapon, the Dances themselves.

[Lmnop]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

Nice work. When I first saw you had a slew of party buffs for them too, I thought only bad things would come. But you made them all defensive in nature, which is a good idear.

I think we have enough Stun in the game, though.

Also, how would this work with changing targets? Think about where the game is now, fast paced exp. Will they have to build up songs on each and every 50 second fight? Or will they have a lingering dance "blanket" which has the effects that you specified. And just have all dance effects apply to all mobs in melee range. Something to that extent is what I expect to make Dancer viable. Debuffs last only as long as the mob. A debuff that has to be worked up would need some method of carryover. By extension, this means they'd also need a method of moving whilst keeping dance effects. Just something like quarter normal movement speed would do, methinks. (Just use the Dusk gear function with higher movement down amounts).

Oh, I also like the lowering of magical stats. If you can't silence it, at least put the Dancer on it to make it's magic weaker.

[Ziero]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

Nice work. When I first saw you had a slew of party buffs for them too, I thought only bad things would come. But you made them all defensive in nature, which is a good idear.
I think we have enough Stun in the game, though.

Much like Brd has some debuffs but focuses mainly on buffs, I felt the Dancer should have some useful buffs. As you stated, though with different intentions, a mob only lasts so long so some useful PT buffs will aid it's roll in a pt. Much like Rdm makes use of Haste and Refresh more then it's debuffs in end game EXP, despite being a master of enfeebles. And as for stun goes, ignoring the WS, that leaves Drk, Blm and Blu so one more couldn't hurt imo.

Also, how would this work with changing targets? Think about where the game is now, fast paced exp. Will they have to build up songs on each and every 50 second fight? Or will they have a lingering dance "blanket" which has the effects that you specified. And just have all dance effects apply to all mobs in melee range. Something to that extent is what I expect to make Dancer viable. Debuffs last only as long as the mob. A debuff that has to be worked up would need some method of carryover. By extension, this means they'd also need a method of moving whilst keeping dance effects. Just something like quarter normal movement speed would do, methinks. (Just use the Dusk gear function with higher movement down amounts).

Basically, when a target is chosen and a Dance is put into effect, it would start out at max strength and over time dwindle down if left alone. As such, it's not the dance becomes stronger over time, but more that it stays at max potency as one danced. As such, a Dancer could switch mid dance between targets and not miss a beat and keep that max effect up on all targets it attacked (hence why there was no sleep dance, as that would be overpowered). So one could choose the Att down dance, then juggle it across three different mobs, targeting each one at a time as the [Effect] timer fills up.

Oh, I also like the lowering of magical stats. If you can't silence it, at least put the Dancer on it to make it's magic weaker.

That's something few, if any, classes can actually do so I felt it would be a nice, unique focus for this class.

[Lmnop]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

That's something few, if any, classes can actually do so I felt it would be a nice, unique focus for this class.

Exactly. And pretty much any casting NM will be immune or highly resistant to silence.

This makes me think of another point -- resists. I think something like this should't be resistible. Or maybe each "dance" has a chance to land every 10-30 seconds. But that'd be a lot of spam after a while. Dunno how to handle that, but a magic acc/attack down shouldn't be resistible.

[Ziero]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

Exactly. And pretty much any casting NM will be immune or highly resistant to silence.
This makes me think of another point -- resists. I think something like this should't be resistible. Or maybe each "dance" has a chance to land every 10-30 seconds. But that'd be a lot of spam after a while. Dunno how to handle that, but a magic acc/attack down shouldn't be resistible.

That's sort of another difference in the concept. All current debuffs are fire and forget, hit or miss attacks, but the Dancer's would be persistant and constant. The Active dances would always land, and any resistance a mob had would just act to lower it's maximum effect. So instead of a static stat-XX or a set percentage down, it would be different values for different monsters.

[Wiseman40]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

Dancer is neat, but I doubt I'll play it. The footage looks nice, though - and I look forward to having one in my parties.

There's still hope for another new job. The SE official WotG site reads 'New Jobs' but only lists dancer in spite of the plural form of job.
They could release a new one any time soon.

I doubt we'll see another pet class. The thing we have the least of is Tank now.
We may even get another class that can DD and taunt, allowing for a new option for NIN and PLD subjob.

I also doubt we'll have another support class this expansion, killing the possibility of a class that will replace /whm for smn >.>

[Malacite]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

We already know there will be more jobs, this was announced months ago. We're just not sure how many.

According to a report from IGN, SE may only be revealing one new job at fan fest (the week before release... yeah thanks SE >_ >) but personally, I think SE was just saying that at TGS. They've always released them in sets of 3, why should this time be any different?

[Lmnop]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

I was kinda hoping we'd only have 2 new jobs just to break with tradition.

Though if the other job is gonna be Time Mage >.> Then I want a 3rd job.

[Wiseman40]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

I would play a time mage in FFXI. Just because they were weak in Tactics doesn't mean it'll be weak here >.>

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

Time Mages weren't weak in Tactics, they were annoying in the levels where you had to face armies of the little bastards Slowing you and and Hasting their side.

SE is supposed to announce the next job at another japanese event, I don't think we'll be waiting until the last minute to learn of it.

[Wiseman40]

Re: Fleshed-out Job Concepts

Well I agree... They were annoying. However, you couldn't annoy your enemy to death, so I only ever had a Time Mage in my party in Tactics in order to learn the job traits and apply them to other jobs -_-
It could be made very useful in FFXI, though.