To All Penny Pinchers

[Murphie]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

Who said anything about wanting to let the thread die? All I ask is that if someone bump a thread from several months ago, they do so with something new to get the conversation started again.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

This is without even getting into the issue of mages being too stingy to cast Protect/Shell, which boggles me to no end. Why do I have to pester a RDM 3-4x to get a full-level Protect that has a 30 min duration? Why do I have to argue with healers about whether or not a 20-50 MP Shellra (that lasts thirty f'ing minutes on the entire party) is "worth it" against the mobs we are fighting?

In some parties, I can see the point of using full leveled Protect and Shell only on the tank and puller and using a half-leveled ra on everyone else. 6x protect and shell can take more than your whole manapool; wasting 2-3 minutes out of every 30 is not insignificant. But a whm never faces this problem.

I'd go further than that; asking a RDM/WHM to put highest level of Protect and Shell on all party members is MORONIC.

At level 60, I think I have less than 600 MP. I forgot the actual number, but let's pretend I have MP merit and extreme good gears, and actually bumped it to 600+ MP.

So, what is full protection? Well, let's see:

Protect III(46) x 6 = 282 MP
Shell III(56) x 6 = 336 MP
Total MP: 618 MP
Number of spells to cast: 12.

That's asking me to burn through one Convert worth of MP. And, force the entire party to stop while I cast a DOZEN spells in a row. (I sure the heck can't stick them in between enfeebs and refresh and cures--not when they take my entire MP pool.)

Does anyone really want to waste a Convert on Protect and Shell? 618 MP every 30 min?! I only have three convert every 30 min, and I have to sacrafic one out of every three convert to only Protect and Shell?

Hell, no.

Put a WHM in party if you must have highest level of Protect and Shell for everyone. >_>

Before anyone protests, even casting Protect/Shell III three party members is silly to ask from a RDM/WHM. (That's 309 MP for the three, and I'd still have to put protectra II/shellra the rest for another 62 MP, to cover these 8 spells which I'd have to somehow find the MP and time to cast between everything else.)


Protectra II(28) + Protect III(46) (for tank) = 74 MP
Shellra(34) + Shell III(56) (for tank) = 90 MP
Total MP: 164 MP
Number of spells to cast: 4

That, I can handle; it's just little more than one Refresh worth of MP, and I can keep the Protect's and Shell's up without disrupting exp flow.

* * *

As for sneak and invisible, I try to save gil--and save other people gil. I can't get experience points very fast without a party, and a party invites me because my contribution is needed to help them get exp--so I contribute gladly. Ta-da!

Just stand there and I'll sneak/invisible you at the zone line. If it drops, get to a safe spot and say something, and I'll put them back up for you--though I would prefer if you can handle it yourself with silent oil and prism powder/Tonko. (I would also prefer if you ask nicely, and say "Thank you" after I cast them on you, but I don't expect such civility from pickup groups except from the Japanese members.)

Don't expect me to sneak/invis five people through an entire zone (we'll die), but one or two I don't mind. Unless there are magic aggro mobs or otherwise very densely packed baddies, that is. Then, I won't risk casting; I'll be using powder and oil--just like you.

Just don't forget to let me rest to full once we reach camp before pulling, or else I'll be very grumpy.

* * *

As a RDM, if you do not want to sneak/invis anyone because you absolutely hate it, tell the party leader before you accept invite. Or, tell people to bring AND use oil/powder before you let them join if you're the leader.

As a support role job, expecting others not asking you for, well, support, is at least unusual. Getting all upset because other people expect normality is neither productive nor good for your own sanity.

[Clever Ninja]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

The only reason the people jumped on the OP is cause he was bitching about THE VERY FIRST SNEAK INTO THE ZONE. Its common courtesy by mages to give the sifrst sneak, as its been said. Even Mog, who posted his own bad experience in a PT, seems to agree that first Sneak is needed, after that your on your own. But considering he went out of his way to help him get there, something most parties won't do(seriously, I've seen people get booted if they didn't know how to reach the camp) warrants at least another Sneak or two IMO, cause he saved you time from having to look it up online or LS mates, walking through it slowly by yourself, etc etc.

And unless your not the tank or not a mage, its never good to go AFK during the fight. With the speed that the text flies by, its possible for people to miss it, which is likely what happened to the RNG. I'm not saying don't take breaks, cause I do it all the time, but wait for the mob to die and right as the exp earned comes up hit enter and go afk. This isn't their fault in anyway, you caused the Ninja exp, downtime for resting and then more downtime to recover that lost exp. And the resting downtime effects the entire PT.

Honestly, the OP complained about having a bad PT experience, but he was the main cause of it with his elitist attitude.

And I agree, I think he sells Silent Oils on the downlow, and just wants more people to buy them

[Aeolus]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

In a TP burn situation, any party in ToAU areas you are just as well Protecting/Shelling the entire party (Not so much shell) Dont do yourself by all means but when your 4 melee a cor and rdm exping Im pretty sure we all want you to burn that extra MP for your highest protect/shell on each member because if the PTs any good your not gonna need the magic neway, our rdm was 80-100% full mp all the time in our last PT and only converted for highest lv protect/shell and it does help in the long run for curing cause we all taking less dmg. Of course your PT could completely suck and then your gonna want that convert for other reasons.

[Visper]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

I did not refuse the sneak, if you would have read it correctly >.> I told him that if he had means to give it to himself, he had better use it. And in my eyes he was rude for having me use my MP on him when he had his own means. It's like saying "can I borrow your gas for my car? yeah, I have some right here, but I don't have to pay you."

Um...I'm sorry but your wrong. MP is FREE, sneak oils are not...

[Murphie]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

Um...I'm sorry but your wrong. MP is FREE, sneak oils are not...

And if you want that "free" MP, you can level a mage job to get it. Otherwise, don't expect to be sneak/invis'd across the zone. If you do get it (which my party members do, at least at the zone line), great. If not, you had better have your own means of getting to the camp site.

[Mhurron]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

And really, complaining about the person who bumped the thread in said thread is, by all means, you bumping the necropost itself. If you want to let a thread die, don't post in it

Well no, since once it's been bumped it is again a live thread.

[eticket109]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

It shouldn't be too much to ask for a sneak/invis at the zone I guess. At the same time, the mage shouldn't be expected to babysit you across an entire zone either. I never really have an issue with it as I have at least a full stack of each with me at all times.

[Kittyneko]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

Well my opinion is just this: A mage does not get those spells for nothing. Its a mages job to help others. I think you are being arrogant on this subject. Im sure its annoying sometimes, but is it so bad? Well i dont know what to say, I just think youre making a problem out of nothing at all, and its arrogant. Its not bad to help someone you know. Even with saving money on sneak oils! It doesnt cost you that much work.

Edit: By the way, I also once read in the manual once, under White Mage I believe, "A white mages job is to provide their healing spells to those in need" I think that counts for all jobs having supporting skills/magic.

[Kittyneko]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

Well, I just talked about this with my boyfriend, who has Whm75, Blm75 and Rdm70. Not that the levels matter much, I just want to show that he has enough experience to give atleast a valid opinion.
Well, the conclusion of the conversation was:
It should be no problem for a mage to sneak and invisible other people, as long as its asked nicely(not begging) and not like people just saying "sneak". Also, the people needing sneak/invisible also have to understand when a mage declines to help, for a good reason. Not just, "nah dont feel like it, get oils". But like, "I cant always sneak because its dangerous for myself here" or, "im the only mage, i cant sneak and invisible 5 other people together".

Edit: with people just saying "sneak", I mean it shouldnt be so expected of mages to do it. Also, melees should understand that its not very enjoyable for mages to look after more than 1 other player, on a long way to camp.
Ow and, we also agreed that if possible, melees should bring oils and powders anyway, even if its expensive for them, just in case. I mean, you cant always count on the mages in all situations.