To All Penny Pinchers

[Mog]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

I tend to have the opposite effect, actually, when I farm TWTBW mobs I hardly ever get inturupted, but then again it's prolly cause I have high magic skills from my parties (I liked to keep them all capped - or rather try )

All depends on the level mob that you're farming. If I were farming bees in giddeus and I cast, I won't get interrupted, regardless of whether or not I cast aquaveil on myself.

[Stockyboy]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

What I don't understand is, how you died so quickly and how come mobs 20 levels or so below you would have inturupted you :x

[Mog]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

What I don't understand is, how you died so quickly and how come mobs 20 levels or so below you would have inturupted you :x

Hard to say. x.x Everything happened in the course of 30 seconds, so even I was shocked by it.

[Stockyboy]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

Anyway, musn't get too off topic otherwise I'll have another warning :x

[Mog]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

Anyway, musn't get too off topic otherwise I'll have another warning :x

{Yes, please} I'm done arguing about trivial things.

[Spider-Dan]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

For an opposing view:
I'm kind of surprised you're upset by somebody wanting sneak when they first enter the zone. I thought it was sort of common that the first sneak/invis is free, the rest you should deal with yourself. Especially when in mount zhayolm where it only takes one sneak to get to a crawler camp anyway, unless you get a bad sneak.

Seconded.

Speaking of stingy mages, something I don't understand is why every mage with access to Reraise doesn't cast it upon entering the zone? I have seen mages die and say "um no RR up" far too many times. One of the first habits I ever developed upon learning Utsusemi: Ichi was putting up a set of shadows the moment I enter any zone that has aggro.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't RR have a duration in the 1-2hr range? As far as I can see, there's no reason for a mage not to have RR up in any situation where dying is even possible.

This is without even getting into the issue of mages being too stingy to cast Protect/Shell, which boggles me to no end. Why do I have to pester a RDM 3-4x to get a full-level Protect that has a 30 min duration? Why do I have to argue with healers about whether or not a 20-50 MP Shellra (that lasts thirty f'ing minutes on the entire party) is "worth it" against the mobs we are fighting?

Although I always make it a point to bring my own sneak/invis, I have very little tolerance for stingy mages who can't even be bothered to cast the spells that they've already bought and used.

[Murphie]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

Speaking of stingy mages, something I don't understand is why every mage with access to Reraise doesn't cast it upon entering the zone? I have seen mages die and say "um no RR up" far too many times. One of the first habits I ever developed upon learning Utsusemi: Ichi was putting up a set of shadows the moment I enter any zone that has aggro.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't RR have a duration in the 1-2hr range? As far as I can see, there's no reason for a mage not to have RR up in any situation where dying is even possible.

I always cast reraise on myself when in an aggro zone. Unfortunately, I do sometimes find myself in a situation where reraise has worn, and I die before I get a chance to recast. That can be frustrating, but sometimes getting a moment to use 150 MP can be tough. That said, I do try and remember to recast it as soon as it drops if at all possible.

I can't imagine why a mage wouldn't keep Protect and Shell up at all times. They are pretty cheap, MP-wise, and a little added protection goes a long way towards saving MP over the course of the party. It's just good sense to use it.

All I want is for people to stop saying "(Protectra) PLZ" the moment the damn spell drops. I can see that it dropped folks. I'll rebuff as soon as I get a second.

[Szkol]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

All I want is for people to stop saying "(Protectra) PLZ" the moment the damn spell drops. I can see that it dropped folks. I'll rebuff as soon as I get a second.

I wish it were that easy. As a mage myself, I understand the frustrations of folks always assuming we can't play our job. You're right; it's VERY annoying when you get the {Protectra} PLZ as soon as the buff wears off. Of course, these are the same DDs and pullers that don't understand that healing is necesary for mages, and always seem to ignore our requests for {Let's rest for awhile.} or our cries of {I have no MP!} They see it as OUR problem and OUR responsibility to keep our MP high, and at the same time buff and rebuff and enfeeble and heal/nuke during the fights. So what I do when some jerk pulls after I repeatedly request to heal MP for myself and other mages, is just let the moron die, and HP halfway across the world so I can get a new, and hopefully better/smarter DD in my party.


The other side of the argument, DDs /tanks telling mages how to do their jobs, I can also unfortunately understand. I had a rather interesting party in the dunes with my 15 WAR the other night. It the party was 2 WAR, 4 WHM. Fine, I know, not exactly the winningest combination, but it was slim pickings in the Dunes that night. And we reasoned that our fights would take a little longer, but noone would have to die that night. How could we possibly, with 4 level 14+ WHM? Well there were 2 uber-noob WHM in the party, and instead of following the plan of Heal, then rest for MP while the other 2 WHM heal, THESE 2 WHM decide to help us WARs with our DD.

If I had $1 for every time I saw these messages:

Noobmage1 hits the snipper for 0 points of damage.
Noobmage2 hits the snipper for 0 points of damage.

I could enter a somewhat early retirement at my current age of 21.

The other 2 mages did their best, but noobmages 1 and 2 seemed like they were trying to burn MP. Every fight began with both WARs near death because the mages spent the first minute of it both casting protectra, both casting slow, and both casting paralyze.

Now here's the best part, noob DD and noob WHM working together, hand in hand.

So inevtiably, I die on an IT snipper, because the fight is just lasting too long. I HP back to Selbina and hury back to the beach to finish off the stupid crab, and the moment I arrive is the same moment that the other WAR forgets how to voke. I'm cursing at the WHM to heal for MP, and for the WAR to voke as I edge nearer and near to death, for the 2nd time on one snipper. Finally, the other WAR managed to pull some hate... I don't know how. Now ALL the mages have No MP, and myself and the 2 smartish mages decide its high time we ran the hell away. So about 10 seconds after we run, the WAR falls... and the dumb WHMs start yelling for us to come back, because "We're killing it! We almost have it dead!" Allk those 0 point hits must have really worn that snipper out, but, it seemed the little guy pulled through, as the 3 of us who ran laughed at the WHMs screaming for help because they were suddenly dying... and couldn't understand why....


So this was a longish post, and if you don't care to read everything the moral is that there are dumbasses on both sides of the line, and the best thing we can do is neglect our responsibilities when it comes to their well-being, and hope that endless amount of HPs across the world gets through their thick, thick, skulls.

[Karinya]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

Seconded.

Speaking of stingy mages, something I don't understand is why every mage with access to Reraise doesn't cast it upon entering the zone? I have seen mages die and say "um no RR up" far too many times. One of the first habits I ever developed upon learning Utsusemi: Ichi was putting up a set of shadows the moment I enter any zone that has aggro.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't RR have a duration in the 1-2hr range? As far as I can see, there's no reason for a mage not to have RR up in any situation where dying is even possible.

Well, the one case I can see is RDM/WHM, BLM/WHM, SMN/WHM or BRD/WHM in a party with a WHM (66+, or it wouldn't be an option). The set of circumstances in which you would actually want to accept your RR1 is so tiny (i.e. the WHM is also dead and their RR was dispelled or they didn't bother to cast it) that it may really not be worth it to cast in the first place.

For the WHMs, though, there are only four excuses: you're under level 33, it just wore and you haven't had time to recast it yet, it was dispelled, or you said "Casting Reraise now, don't pull" and the puller pulled anyway and you got interrupted. Not only is the duration an hour (for the spells; more for some RR items), it doesn't even go away when you escape or teleport anymore.

This is without even getting into the issue of mages being too stingy to cast Protect/Shell, which boggles me to no end. Why do I have to pester a RDM 3-4x to get a full-level Protect that has a 30 min duration? Why do I have to argue with healers about whether or not a 20-50 MP Shellra (that lasts thirty f'ing minutes on the entire party) is "worth it" against the mobs we are fighting?

Although I always make it a point to bring my own sneak/invis, I have very little tolerance for stingy mages who can't even be bothered to cast the spells that they've already bought and used.

In some parties, I can see the point of using full leveled Protect and Shell only on the tank and puller and using a half-leveled ra on everyone else. 6x protect and shell can take more than your whole manapool; wasting 2-3 minutes out of every 30 is not insignificant. But a whm never faces this problem.

As far as stealth spells, I agree with the common etiquette that you should cast one set of stealth spells on party members at the entrance of dangerous zones or just before reaching the first aggressive mobs (except maybe Ro'Maeve, since weapons can be right up at the entrance). Stealth items are expensive and best kept for if the party gets separated or magic aggro mobs are nearby. Expecting someone to spend 3k gil (approx cost of ONE sneak oil) to save you 12 mp is idiotic.

[Soduka]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

A little off topic but it goes along with the moral of this topic. Well I've been playing the game happily for a few days now, and every single person I met has been kind and gracious, lending me support when I need it and I lend them cures and such when they need it. Today just an hour ago I met the first asshole in my FFXi carrer. I was surprised to see his atitude there when before I was with at least a hundred other people all nice and goodwilling. This guy was in need of help, his hp low and couldn't recover. I go over and attack the Fodder, kill it and the guy stands up and just sayf F*** YOU! and runs off.


I know there aren't all nice people out there, but when I help a person out I was expecting just a ty or nothing at all, not being a complete jerk unlike everyone else.

[ultimaknight]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

A little off topic but it goes along with the moral of this topic. Well I've been playing the game happily for a few days now, and every single person I met has been kind and gracious, lending me support when I need it and I lend them cures and such when they need it. Today just an hour ago I met the first asshole in my FFXi carrer. I was surprised to see his atitude there when before I was with at least a hundred other people all nice and goodwilling. This guy was in need of help, his hp low and couldn't recover. I go over and attack the Fodder, kill it and the guy stands up and just sayf F*** YOU! and runs off.


I know there aren't all nice people out there, but when I help a person out I was expecting just a ty or nothing at all, not being a complete jerk unlike everyone else.

The guy may have been trying to die on purpose to port home or something. I have ran into that sometimes when I see someone in danger and help them. Some people don't want help.

Back to the original topic though.

I have a reraise earring and I only use it when I know we are going to camp in an area that has a good chance of wiping the party if something goes wrong. I don't use it just to travel to the location, unless I think its a possibility that I could get ko'ed by a mob.

And I do try to keep Protect and Shell up on party members if I can, especially if I am the main healer. There has been times when I have been in parties with a WHM that would not cast it unless told too, but I would at least make sure that if my Protectra wore to put a fresh one on the tank(s) until the WHM got to it.

Speaking of stingy mages, something I don't understand is why every mage with access to Reraise doesn't cast it upon entering the zone? I have seen mages die and say "um no RR up" far too many times. One of the first habits I ever developed upon learning Utsusemi: Ichi was putting up a set of shadows the moment I enter any zone that has aggro.

...

Although I always make it a point to bring my own sneak/invis, I have very little tolerance for stingy mages who can't even be bothered to cast the spells that they've already bought and used.

I'm sorry, but I find the term "stingy mages" offensive. As a mage, I am expected to enfeeble the mob, cure the party, buff, dispel, refresh (eventually), and nuke. So because I don't cast sneak/invis I am stingy. I don't complain when the tank can't keep that hate and I end up getting killed. At least have a little more respect for what the mages do for your party.

[nickofearth]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

Heh. Always amazing how mages whine about melees having sneak oils and prism powders so they better use them 24/7. I am starting to think said mages are the ones making and selling the powders. lol I always carry a stack of each with me, but if a mage is that much of an ass to not wanna cast sneak and invis on you at the start of a zone... that just pisses me off. I am a Red Mage sure and I have no problem sneaking and invising people at the start.

[Murphie]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

That was really profound. Thanks for bumping this thread to add your insight to the discussion. No one had mentioned that before.

[Mog]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

That was really profound. Thanks for bumping this thread to add your insight to the discussion. No one had mentioned that before.

Truth.

/beats the dead thread with the pimp stick.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

That was really profound. Thanks for bumping this thread to add your insight to the discussion. No one had mentioned that before.

And really, complaining about the person who bumped the thread in said thread is, by all means, you bumping the necropost itself. If you want to let a thread die, don't post in it