To All Penny Pinchers

[Anaki]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

for me i like sneak and invis if im broke D: aka i just bought food for the party now i got 10k and 2 oils left over :x in which case i save oils for emergency (bad area and using magic here just puts the mage at risk of aggro). also er well in xp fior some they dont see wahts said in /p chat so they may not of seen you say brb groceries in which case if it was 10% you coulda waited for mob to die or say it three times because they may of not seen you say brb groceries so of course they are mad. from their view you went afk without saying anything

[Shep]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

you could have waited for some til the fight was over to go help with groceries......

[Shopee]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

When we got to the staging point he went afk for a short time, and when he came back he asked for a new sneak (of course). The moment I casted sneak on him, he said "I love saving on sneak oils, lol"

I wasted no time in telling him that if he had oils he had damn better use them, and that I was not his bitch.

Just because someone asks you to do something kind for them does NOT mean they view you as their "bitch". I think your usage of this indicates you have issues understanding that the ninja was expressing gratitude for something nice you were doing for him. He was not being condescending, he was not treating you as his "bitch".*

*- This is all said based on the information you have provided.

[Omni]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

For an opposing view:
I'm kind of surprised you're upset by somebody wanting sneak when they first enter the zone. I thought it was sort of common that the first sneak/invis is free, the rest you should deal with yourself. Especially when in mount zhayolm where it only takes one sneak to get to a crawler camp anyway, unless you get a bad sneak.

I agree with tirrock and the others on this point.

Almost every PT i've been in, if traversing through an aggro filled zone. The first sneak/invis is usually a nice gesture that is not out of the ordinary and almost a standard.

No, im not saying you have to give me a sneak/invis for free or else and no, i wont pester or hold it against a mage if they didnt do it for me but to ask for one when at the start of a zone should not be considered a pain either.

However, like others have said, once you are in the zone, making your way to camp, the melee should be on his own with oils/powders. now THAT should be a given unless they ask you before hand to help them out.

His comment about saving on oils was sorta inappropriate but expecting an initial sneak/invis is not.

[ultimaknight]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

First off, I have no problem giving a sneak or invisible at the zone if asked for one. BUT I do think that it is very inappropriate for someone to state their reason for wanting it is so they can save money. He could have at least said "I only have a few left and needed to save them for the way back" or something along those lines.

We all have to spend money in this game for whatever reason. Maybe its a one time expense like a spell or something that requires constant resupplying like consumables. Regardless, we all have expenses for your jobs.

And I have been in parties where people would complain because they just ate some food and either 1) died or 2) someone had to go. Yes, its a waste to spend money on food and let it go to waste, but it happens. There has been many times where I would stick it out with a party because I wanted to make sure someone close to leveling would do so, a melee would eat some food and get mad because I said I needed to go; even though I warned I was going to leave well ahead of time.

Even though I have Sneak, Invisible, and Deodorize; I still keep a stack of each item in my inventory because I would much rather use my MP for spells that were more reliable then those three spells that wear whenever they feel like.

As far as going afk, RL does take more importance over the game. I will wait until a monster is defeated if I can, but if the party still pulls after I warn then there is nothing I can do about that. I have been in parties where I was the only mage, so I am enfeebling, healing, and sometimes nuking. And being that I don't have Refresh yet, I am either popping juices or having to heal. And you get pullers that don't seem to understand the concept that a mage with no MP is worthless. People are dying and you are having to rest and heal, rest and heal just to keep people alive because your MP is so low. And from the sound of it, that puller was one such player...more concerned about a chain or keeping the exp flowing that he didn't bother to read that someone went afk.

[Mog]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

You think you had it bad? Look at what I said in a previous thread that I made:

I was pretty bored one day, so I asked my ls if anyone needed help with anything. Someone speaks up and tells me he needs help with a telepot scroll quest, so I offer my assistance.

The party meets at Gusgen mines and we press forward. Since it's full of undead, I'm urging the ls members to tell me when they need sneak, by saying s. So I sneak them all and we traverse the skeleton-filled cave. Everything goes well. until....

someone aggroes a skeleton in the cave. She didn't tell me she needed sneak until the moment she aggroed the damn thing. So what does this mean?

It means we're all in a world full of shit. Once the skeleton aggroed, the mushrooms and other skeletons in the hallway aggro. I figure I'd go out as a noble sacrifice for the party. I didn't bother casting sleepga, since they're undead. So I told the party to quit attacking the skeletons. (They weren't doing any significant damage to them, so there was no point in them attacking each one of the mobs) So I prepare myself and cast the only spell I can: Firaga II.

It's either due or die at this point.Before you know it, all the mobs go down half health in a failed attempt to kill them, and I'm killed in a matter of seconds. So what does the party do? All but one meber continue to attack the mobs, so my effort was in vain. After they get killed off they hp and leave without so much saying sorry. So I wait for a raise and continue to help the last member out.

And this is all because people are too cheap to buy sneak oils.

[Szkol]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

I"m a little confused by the OP... when I enter a zone with my party, I get downright bitchy with them if they don't stop to LET ME CAST sneak/invis on them. From my point of view, it's way more costly for a member to end up dead than to use up the MP.

As for leaving DURING a fight? That's straight up unacceptable. For something like groceries, you could have waited till the monster lost its last 10% before you went to help your mom. And don't go off about your mom being a crazy wench who will ground you if you don't come the second she snaps her fingers, because if that's the case, you KNOW she's like that, and perhaps you shouldn't be playing the game when she may need help with something... or at the very least stay away from leveling with a party... do some synthing or something maybe.

As for the RNG "not paying attention" to your AFK call... I'm not sure about the rest of you, but I know that I very often have toruble keeping up with the chat log, simply for the important battle messages alone... not even including idle chat If you're going AFK, you need to wait till the end of the battle... or if it's an emergancy, then it's your responsibility to make sure the puller or someone knows your away. It's pretty irresponsible to place blame on the RNG by saying "He missed the message"

[nazlfrag]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

And, for the last time, I did not have a problem with casting the spell on him. It was the fact that he had me cast it on me when he had his own means to use it on himself....
And in my eyes he was rude for having me use my MP on him when he had his own means....
I wasted no time in telling him that if he had oils he had damn better use them, and that I was not his bitch.

You obviously did have a problem casting the spell on him, it made you feel like his bitch. While I agree everyone should carry oils and powders including mages, gil is far more valuable than MP. You can't cast 'Refresh Wallet' to replace the cost of oils. You are in the party as a support mage, casting spells that support the party. Why is sneak not on your list of support spells? He would have had every right to reply "I don't need to show you to the staging point, I'm not your bitch." He was doing you a favour, the least you can do for him is cast a simple spell.

It's not like theres any complexity or difficulty to the sneak spell, or perhaps it's a bit too much for you to handle? A bit like letting the puller know you are afk, no difficulty or complexity, but you seemed to be unable to do it. (A line of party chat in pages of battle spam doesn't count, next time please /tell the puller or leader, personally. It's as easy as F2-F6, /t <t> {Red Mage} afk 2 min DON'T PULL, and ta-da! Much easier to spot in the battle spam)

Having to sneak/invis an entire party I can understand, one person I cannot. The nin has his own invisible, and wants you to cast just one spell occasionaly, which should cause you no MP troubles. If he's going to get aggro from sneak wearing, oils won't make much of a difference. Where's the problem?

It is an insult to have sneak oils and yet not use them just because your mage has never been somewhere before.

A bit like the insult to have the sneak spell but refuse to cast it for no good reason. That's the larger insult by far.

I'll haste, regen, cure, and raise you, but I will not save you money

There are items that replicate these effects, are you going to demand their use as well? 'I don't cure, get your own hi-potions.. I don't raise, get your own reraise.. I don't regen, get some aulaits, i'm not saving you money..' Of course not, it would be stupid. About as stupid as refusing to sneak someone because it makes you feel like their bitch.

I feel you had another reason though, that this ninja was probably just the proverbial straw that broke the camels back. After 30+ levels of sneak/invising, everyone starts to groan when they hear '{Sneak} plz'. Just please put things into perspective, this guy was doing the courtesy of showing you to the staging point, at least do the courtesy of sneaking them in return. If it was too hard due to aggro, let them know that. If not, why wouldn't you do it?

As a level 60 rdm, I understand exactly where you are coming from. Just this morning I got aggroed in Kuftal doing the sneak whore thing. This was the party leader who didn't bring oils, or wanted to save a buck. That forgetting or wanting to save a buck could have easily cost both of us a nice chunk of XP. However, I only got aggro because I was being lazy. Frankly, training dozens of crabs to the zoneline doesn't bother me, and I didn't really take any care not to get aggro. With sneak, you get what you pay for ~.^

When I can assist my party, I feel proud to be a Red Mage. When others put their lives in my hands, I pick up a notch, and start to get the most out of this game. That includes sneaking people when I can, when it's not a burden on me or a danger to us. That's most of the time, as rarely (post lvl 40 at least) does anyone outright need sneak, but everyone appreciates getting it. Really, it's not hard at all to do, though it can get annoying. The hardest part I find is needing to stay focused and keeping your wits about you, as daydreaming can be fatal for everyone. Which just makes it a good warmup for the party, where the same thing applies double.

Now how do we convince everyone to say {Sneak} {please} {Can I have it?} {Reward:} 2k? It worked for teleports ^^

[Kailea]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

You think you had it bad? Look at what I said in a previous thread that I made:

I was pretty bored one day, so I asked my ls if anyone needed help with anything. Someone speaks up and tells me he needs help with a telepot scroll quest, so I offer my assistance.

The party meets at Gusgen mines and we press forward. Since it's full of undead, I'm urging the ls members to tell me when they need sneak, by saying s. So I sneak them all and we traverse the skeleton-filled cave. Everything goes well. until....

someone aggroes a skeleton in the cave. She didn't tell me she needed sneak until the moment she aggroed the damn thing. So what does this mean?

It means we're all in a world full of shit. Once the skeleton aggroed, the mushrooms and other skeletons in the hallway aggro. I figure I'd go out as a noble sacrifice for the party. I didn't bother casting sleepga, since they're undead. So I told the party to quit attacking the skeletons. (They weren't doing any significant damage to them, so there was no point in them attacking each one of the mobs) So I prepare myself and cast the only spell I can: Firaga II.

It's either due or die at this point.Before you know it, all the mobs go down half health in a failed attempt to kill them, and I'm killed in a matter of seconds. So what does the party do? All but one meber continue to attack the mobs, so my effort was in vain. After they get killed off they hp and leave without so much saying sorry. So I wait for a raise and continue to help the last member out.

And this is all because people are too cheap to buy sneak oils.

no this is all because a member in your PT does not know how to say "S"

and if I am doing a quest, I would go DRG/WHM and sneak myself ;p

[Mog]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

no this is all because a member in your PT does not know how to say "S"

and if I am doing a quest, I would go DRG/WHM and sneak myself ;p

You're missing the point. These are low level people who don't have the whm job leveled who shouldn't be relying on one black mage for sneaks and invisible.

People should use common courtesy and buy sneak oils and prism powders, to alleviate the pressure of me sneaking and invisibling 5 newbies.

[Kailea]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

You're missing the point. These are low level people who don't have the whm job leveled who shouldn't be relying on one black mage for sneaks and invisible.

People should use common courtesy and buy sneak oils and prism powders, to alleviate the pressure of me sneaking and invisibling 5 newbies.

lol you do have a point, is why I tell everyone to elvel WHM or RDM to 37 at some point :p

[Mog]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

lol you do have a point, is why I tell everyone to elvel WHM or RDM to 37 at some point :p

-.-; Come on, now. You really can't expect every person in Vana'diel to level their whm up.

[Spinnthrift]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

And I don't think you can really compare - a group of new players, who're probably...

a: not financially settled in FFXI.
b: not fully aware of the mechanics of FFXI.

with..

A rant which is out of line.

Secondly.. why bring a full party to Gusgen, for a single player needing sneaking through it. Sympathy hijack?

No - people aren't too cheap to spend money... but damn.. hell will freeze over before people will spend free MP without whining about it. I'm not saying people shouldn't be courteous, or polite or just plain old fashion decent about things, but in all honesty - if I'd just helped someone out.. and said: "Hey.. can you give me a sneak as these things cost a bunch.." and had the reply: "I'm not your Sneak dispensing bitch!!! OK???" Not only would that person be kicked from the party (that fscking second), they'd be blacklisted, and I'd have screenied that conversation and put up on all my LS private forums - as a DO NOT HELP EVER person. Regardless of how much people think we need Refresh.

This isn't a party of 5 other people who've not done it.. this is one person.. who actively helped out the OP, has been labelled: "The Cheapskate", yet - the irony of that is also lost on the OP... and... then there is the AFK.

If anything.. the party should have been considered an unlucky one, as people have bad days (and are allowed them)... but other than that... as rants go, it deserves shooting.

This isn't about some guy being tight fisted.. this is about a Red Mage who needs to pull the stick out of an orifice and start being reasonable.

To the OP: I don't care if you think you can get invites no matter who you upset. It's not right, and truth be told - the guy who helped you out is owed an apology. A serious one. However... having the guts to apologise to someone for being wrong isn't easy. It's much easier to flame them anonymously on a forum.

[Akai]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

:x well, i usually cast sneak on people when they ask, but if someone said something along the lines of that, i would be pissed -.o
but if they have few, and might need them for emergencies, such as magic aggro monsters, i gladly cast sneak and such

[Stockyboy]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

Where did common courtesy go? He spent his time trying to help you advance in the game, and you're too lazy to cast a 3 second spell on him because he had silent oils.

May it have occured he has them for solo? Or for when magic aggro mobs are about? And you saying You aren't his sneak bitch..I think that's out of order, if you're going somewhere where a party member needs sneak, and you have sneak, you're going to be relied on to cast it.

If I was him, I would have left you in the middle of the place all on your own.