To All Penny Pinchers

[Lilani]

*Rant mixed in*

I'm going to come right out and say it: a mage is NOT an exclusive discount on sneak oils. Today I was heading to a party in Mount Zailom (sp?) I didn't have the staging point so me and the party leader (who was a ninja) went to Halvung, escaped, and he took me to the staging point and the camp. After the escape, he asked me for a sneak. I almost pointed it out to him that he should provide his own, but I figured for a level 66 ninja he must have known better and made a mistake, so I let it slide. And it was only one person, rather than half the party, so it wasn't too bad.

When we got to the staging point he went afk for a short time, and when he came back he asked for a new sneak (of course). The moment I casted sneak on him, he said "I love saving on sneak oils, lol"

I wasted no time in telling him that if he had oils he had damn better use them, and that I was not his bitch. Everyone else in the party was quite impressed with the sudden change of mood, and I made it quiet for a while.

Plus, the guy wasn't a very good person in the first place. I went afk within the last 10% of a crawler's health to help my mom bring in groceries, and I did say "brb groceries" before I left. I come back and the ninja (Mr. Cheapskate) is dead, and the party is panicing. I swiftly said back and got to work, and the first thing the RNG says is "WTF BACK?" I apologized a few times for this, and I tried to lighten the mood a little by saying "well, at least we get that full rest now" and the ninja responds with "not funny."

Well, towards the end of the party, I said I should go soon. It was about 4:20 and I told them 30 mins to an hour, but the sooner the better. In all honesty I didn't like the party. I wasn't having a good day, I was getting tired and was messing up on refresh and dispel. At 4:50 I tell them that I need to go soon, but that no red mages were lfp. The ninja asked me if I could last 20 more minutes. I figure he was saying that because our SMN was about 1k from leveling. I say sure, but then he swiftly says that he did not want to waste his sole sushi.

Sole sushi. I'm staying in a sucky party all because the ninja doesn't want to waste his sole sushi?! Come on! I would have gladly stayed for the summoner to level, which I did, but to keep a bad party together just because you're a damn penny pinching ninja doesn't want to waste his sole sushi. If you can't afford to leave a party with 20 minutes of sole sushi left or afford to use your own damn sneak oils then you shouldn't be playing ninja. In fact, you shouldn't be playing any melee job. Or FFXI for that matter.

I apologize for the rant, but come on, this is rediculous

[Sirius]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

I usually have BLMs use their magic on me if we are traveling. We rest at the camp and as I pull I use my Items, letting the mages save mp for the fight. I always pull since I always have RNG somewhere in my job.

As for the ninja... I always let my food go to waste if someone really needs to go (Real Life or Sleep) They are just pixels, data. Though, I am the type of player who doesn't care if I die, just a game. Only time I seemed to get annoyed is when others die with me. That rarely happened...

Point: People need to know it is just a game, but you must also realize that others have thoughts FAR from this. (The one poster on this board: FFXI IS NOT JUST A GAME! over and over.)

[Tirrock]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

For an opposing view:
I'm kind of surprised you're upset by somebody wanting sneak when they first enter the zone. I thought it was sort of common that the first sneak/invis is free, the rest you should deal with yourself. Especially when in mount zhayolm where it only takes one sneak to get to a crawler camp anyway, unless you get a bad sneak.

At least, that's how I and most other mages did sneak/invises for going to camps, or in places like riverne sites, where it's largely a series of small runs.

And if you went afk during the fight and he died, I don't think you can completely blame that on him, even if it was near the end of the fight. Obviously there was enough time for him to die. >_>a One slug shot or an eagle eye shot should have taken care of 10% off a monster's life.

There are two sides to every story. I honestly don't know how good or bad the ninja was. I'm not saying he was good, but I don't think it mattered entirely on some of the things you pointed out. I'm also all for everybody (mages included) carrying silent oils and prism powders.

[Sabaron]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

Why waste money when you can get a spell cast for free? If you're in a PT isn't Sneak/Invis just as ubiquitous as Cure and Regen? After all, it helps the party get things done more efficiently. Oils and Powders are expensive, oil is about 3k each and powder, 5k. That's 8k for full stealth when a mage can expend a mere 27mp and hit you with both and since you're a RDM, it would take 2 ticks resting to get it back if you weren't eating an MP food or Refreshing which you undoubtedly would be.

I see no reason to refuse a PT member this small luxury, especially to a Ninja who's going to be throwing tools left and right to keep the party alive. When does the Ninja get a break from gil-tossing?

It's most unkind of you to refuse him 27mp worth of stealth. You'll probably only have to reapply at most 2 times if you get unlucky.

The sushi is another matter.

[Lilani]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

Why waste money when you can get a spell cast for free? If you're in a PT isn't Sneak/Invis just as ubiquitous as Cure and Regen? After all, it helps the party get things done more efficiently. Oils and Powders are expensive, oil is about 3k each and powder, 5k. That's 8k for full stealth when a mage can expend a mere 27mp and hit you with both and since you're a RDM, it would take 2 ticks resting to get it back if you weren't eating an MP food or Refreshing which you undoubtedly would be.

As a mage, I know how annoying it is to have to cast sneak and invisible on every single melee. It's a headache that shouldn't have to be had. You never know when it is going to wear, and you never know how intelligent the person is. They might be someone who will train 5 mobs before saying that it wore (I know that from experience) or they might be halfway compitant and pull over away from mobs just before it wears (this does NOT happen very often).

It is an insult to have sneak oils and yet not use them just because your mage has never been somewhere before. IMO, sneak and invisible should be the sole responsibility of the player, and the only reason you can cast it on other party members is to compensate for their stupidity/forgetfulness. I do not want to be looked at by anyone as a way to save gil. I'll haste, regen, cure, and raise you, but I will not save you money. Especially if you are a ninja. Ninjas should be ready to spend gil, and lots of it.

I see no reason to refuse a PT member this small luxury, especially to a Ninja who's going to be throwing tools left and right to keep the party alive. When does the Ninja get a break from gil-tossing?

The same day I get a break from refreshing, hasting, and dispeling while trying to heal my party which was almost killed by an AoE fire attack and while I am taking hate from a mere regen.

It's most unkind of you to refuse him 27mp worth of stealth. You'll probably only have to reapply at most 2 times if you get unlucky.

It's not the 27 MP I have a problem with. It's the fact that he could have very well done it himself that pisses me off. He had means to save me the trouble and time of casting, and the worry of it wearing off in some random place that could get us killed. Please, tell me if this is not unkind or rude:

"can I get a sneak plz?"

"forgot your oils?"

"naw jus I don't wanna use them lol"

One your red mage gets to 45 or 50 you'll see that we need them just as much as they need us, and if they can walk on their own two feet then they'd better start walking.

[Neomage]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

I both agree with you and your party.

1) Your ninja was a penny pinching cheapskate.
2) Your ninja probably was an idiot.
3) Your ranger appeared to be a little off-show that day, or just plain bad.
4) You also appeared to be a little off-show that day.
5) You are not anyone's sneak whore. You should not be expected to sneak people. BUT shout SHOULD sneak people, if they request it, at the start of a zone. That includes where you escaped from to get to the staging point, and leaving the staging point.

[Sabaron]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

As a mage, I know how annoying it is to have to cast sneak and invisible on every single melee.

Perhaps I shouldn't have included Invisible. I have been a stealth money for melees before--having to do yourself + 2 melees is a bear if they have to have Invisible up--I did this in Yuhtunga because we didn't feel like doing a blood-port and losing 550ish xp. One person ended up dying because they got lost--it's hard to follow when everyone's invisible even if you're doing the cursor thing. The other person and I met one of his LS mates about half way and he slaughtered the various goblins we encountered on the way back. I, myself, even though I am a RDM find myself using oil and or powder anyway because of the stable duration. Certain tricky situations or high-population aggro areas almost require it (I used this in Beadeaux/Oztroja when doing Rank 5).

The same day I get a break from refreshing, hasting, and dispeling while trying to heal my party which was almost killed by an AoE fire attack and while I am taking hate from a mere regen.

Yikes... sometimes people have bad days, and sometimes they just suck--the party/PL system in FFXI lends itself well to XP leeches allowing even the most abrasive, lazy, and downright stupid players to get to high levels whereupon they seem to become haughty and arrogant while remaining abrasive, lazy, and/or stupid.

IPlease, tell me if this is not unkind or rude:

"can I get a sneak plz?"

"forgot your oils?"

"naw jus I don't wanna use them lol"

One your red mage gets to 45 or 50 you'll see that we need them just as much as they need us, and if they can walk on their own two feet then they'd better start walking.

I still would've cast it for him, but I suppose it would probably get annoying to become known as everyone's favorite "Stealth Whore". That might be really bad in my case since I make my own stealth medicine... "{Silent Oil} {Can I have it?} {Lower the price?}"

[Kailea]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

You should never go AFK during a fight

I have played both mage and Melee and you have the spells, help your PT members, he was a NIN who uses alot of gil anyway for tools, and you want him to us more on a spell you can cast on him? Maybe you need to stop being a mage if you get that bothered by casting spells on your teammates.

[Omgwtfbbqkitten]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

I kinda stopped after that part about going AFK to help mom with groceries.

The NIN was a cheapskate, sure. But is playing a game when you know RL obligations are going to happen in the middle of a PT any better?

[fallenintoshadows]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

That ninja does sound like he was a bit of a jerk, he could of been more polite about it maybe. But at the end of a day, a party is working together, and if it's for the good of the party I'll do loads of things I hate. But it's to contribute to the team as a whole to make it better, right? So yeah, he should use his own oils, but if it means getting the whole pt to the right location quicker so you can start actually pting quicker, you might as well just sneak him.

[Sigmara]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

A guy is showing you the way to a stagging point and you refuse to sneak him at a zone ?

I really dont get why. Sneak and Invisible are a pain to recast once in the area ( and that's where peoples have to use oils and powder ) but not at the zone's entrance. In my eyes you are just beeing plain rude.

You AFKed during a fight ... Really I would not have been wanting to waste good food just for you after all of that, so I get the NIN's point.

[Spinnthrift]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

I disagree with this thread on several counts...

1: When I'm spending 100k+ an hour in Shuriken, and similar amounts in Ninjutsu tools... I appreciate saving the odd 5k here and there. It adds up. And for you to feel bitter and post a rant when someone is glad they've not burned more of their cash is cheap. So you spend 5k in cookies...

2: You criticize others when you go AFK during combat. No way. Don't accept that. You cost the person spending their gil/effort/time to help you level, and decided to lambast them on a public forum.

3: If you read what you said.. he went out of his way to help YOU get the staging point (something you didn't have and he did). And you're complaining about that. If I were that Ninja, I would tell every person I could to never touch you with a bargepole ever ever ever ever again. Never to party or assist you ever. Period. It's similar to when I play Thf and help people out with coffer/key/th whoring... I am not paying for sneak oils, etc... to benefit you unless you're a friend.. and for you to complain about that is very poor form.

As for penny pinching... yes - when I've thrown out more gil in a session in consumables than some people have had in their entire gear as value... spending gil to get other people exp - damn right that gives me (and other Ninja's of similar outlook) reason to be thrifty and worry about how much we're spending.

[Lilani]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

You should never go AFK during a fight

I have played both mage and Melee and you have the spells, help your PT members, he was a NIN who uses alot of gil anyway for tools, and you want him to us more on a spell you can cast on him? Maybe you need to stop being a mage if you get that bothered by casting spells on your teammates.

First, when I went afk, the crawler was nearly dead. The ranger simply didn't see me say I was going afk, pulled another, and things snowballed from there. Yes it was bad on my part for going afk during a fight, but it was also partially his for not paying attention. And, for the last time, I did not have a problem with casting the spell on him. It was the fact that he had me cast it on me when he had his own means to use it on himself.

And, just why else would they have sneak oils in the first place?

A guy is showing you the way to a stagging point and you refuse to sneak him at a zone ?

I really dont get why. Sneak and Invisible are a pain to recast once in the area ( and that's where peoples have to use oils and powder ) but not at the zone's entrance. In my eyes you are just beeing plain rude.

You AFKed during a fight ... Really I would not have been wanting to waste good food just for you after all of that, so I get the NIN's point.

I did not refuse the sneak, if you would have read it correctly >.> I told him that if he had means to give it to himself, he had better use it. And in my eyes he was rude for having me use my MP on him when he had his own means. It's like saying "can I borrow your gas for my car? yeah, I have some right here, but I don't have to pay you."

Yes, I went AFK during a fight, we've established this. However, I had no choice in the matter. If I would have waited fpr the end of the fight 1. the ranger would have had another crawler on the way anyway, and 2. I would have been kicked off the computer altogether.

I kinda stopped after that part about going AFK to help mom with groceries.

The NIN was a cheapskate, sure. But is playing a game when you know RL obligations are going to happen in the middle of a PT any better?

So I shouldn'tve gotten a party for three hours because of a three minute break I had to take at some point? Some people take longer than that to go to the restroom, so should we not get parties if we know we have to pee in the next few hours?

Yikes... sometimes people have bad days, and sometimes they just suck--the party/PL system in FFXI lends itself well to XP leeches allowing even the most abrasive, lazy, and downright stupid players to get to high levels whereupon they seem to become haughty and arrogant while remaining abrasive, lazy, and/or stupid.

Was there a point to this? Or did you just feel like dishing out useless and slanderous insults? If you were trying to establish that you didn't agree with me, I think you did that well before this.

1: When I'm spending 100k+ an hour in Shuriken, and similar amounts in Ninjutsu tools... I appreciate saving the odd 5k here and there. It adds up. And for you to feel bitter and post a rant when someone is glad they've not burned more of their cash is cheap. So you spend 5k in cookies...

Yes, ninja tools are outragously expensive, but (in my opinion) you should just be prepared for that. When I took ninja to level 20 I made sure I had a lot of gil, and I even bought some sneak oils and prisim powders to get around. And the reason I got those was so I could get myself through places, and so that I wouldn't have to rely on the mages for it.

2: You criticize others when you go AFK during combat. No way. Don't accept that. You cost the person spending their gil/effort/time to help you level, and decided to lambast them on a public forum.

I've already said I know that I was in the wrong when I did that. I didn't want to do it, but I'm already on thin ice with my parents as it is, so I simply had to. It was stupid. I didn't have a choice. Get it? I warned them that I had to go, but they didn't see it. It was an accident, and it was my fault. Good enough?

3: If you read what you said.. he went out of his way to help YOU get the staging point (something you didn't have and he did). And you're complaining about that. If I were that Ninja, I would tell every person I could to never touch you with a bargepole ever ever ever ever again. Never to party or assist you ever. Period. It's similar to when I play Thf and help people out with coffer/key/th whoring... I am not paying for sneak oils, etc... to benefit you unless you're a friend.. and for you to complain about that is very poor form.

So, you're saying that him taking me to the staging point made him taking advantage of me right? Yes, I'll admit it was a bit rude of me to blow up on him after I helped him, but it doesn't make it right. Most parties at higher levels have mages, so if all melees relied on them instead of sneak oils, then why not just not carrying them at all? I don't really care what you say, I'm not going to admit that he was not in the wrong at some point or another.

As for penny pinching... yes - when I've thrown out more gil in a session in consumables than some people have had in their entire gear as value... spending gil to get other people exp - damn right that gives me (and other Ninja's of similar outlook) reason to be thrifty and worry about how much we're spending.

Again, sneak oils and powders should just be standard, and should be concidered when taking up an expensive job. I understand that ninjas throw a lot of gil down for their job...but they chose it. There isn't a guy standing behind them with a gun telling them to farm for hours on end to afford the tools and gear. When you chose an expensive job you should be prepared to spend what you buy, and if you don't use it, don't buy it.

[Tirrock]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

The point people are driving home is that the first sneak and invis in a zone costs you 8 seconds of your time at worst. Almost every single mage I know, myself included, gives people a sneak/invis if it's needed at the start of a zone, even if they have oils/powder.

Things get harder after the first sneak/invis, and that's when they should start using oil/powder.

Do you expect your tanks to go out and buy hi-potions so the WHM doesn't have to heal?

I really dont get why. Sneak and Invisible are a pain to recast once in the area ( and that's where peoples have to use oils and powder ) but not at the zone's entrance.

I couldn't agree more.

[Kailea]

Re: To All Penny Pinchers

I keep a stack of oil/powder with me at all times...along with many other consumbales like potions and ect. but I will not use them unless I have to, if there is a mage in PT, then I dont ahve to, and that saves me gil, witch as a DRG, I need alot of