Give the PUPs a chance!!!

[Daryn2889]

Re: Give the PUPs a chance!!!

C rank Hand to Hand as best weapon skill + Mediocre pet damage = lackluster DD without good weaponskills.

The spell spamming ability is OK, but it's a hell of a lot of work for not a lot of payoff.

I'm looking forward to the update and what it holds in store for Puppetmasters. Right now, there's just no tangible reason to play one; no high level attachments, no ability to restrict or expand the spell repertoire if it's in caster mode.

I'd like to see Puppetmasters get upgraded to at least rank B hand to hand, with maybe a second weapon skill at B- rank to give them some flexibility, plus some stronger or upgradable attachments to give them the same sort of flexibility that Corsairs and Blue Mages currently enjoy.


Icemage

Hmm actually you are right, I have a feeling that Corsairs and Blue Mages were worked on long before the idea of Puppetmasters came. Still the update will bring many possibilities for the Puppetmaster, I guarentee it.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Give the PUPs a chance!!!

Let's put this in more concrete terms. Words like "Give PUP's a chance" and "PUP can out damage everyone else" do not tell me very much.

I'm a RDM34, who has a small static party with a BRD34. I know we need a tank, and usually either a main healer or a backup healer (WHM, BLM/WHM, SMN/WHM, etc.). That leaves two, three spots open. If I see PUP seeking at my level, what should I ask to determine if I should invite him? What should I expect if I invite him?

If I want Fusion, MNK would be the choice for closing. For Fragmentation, WAR with Great Axe. (Or, solo Shield Break for evasive mobs.) For Distortion, I can't think of any combo beating DRG to open and THF to close. DRK is flexible enough to open or close Distortion, too, for decent damage. And, if I'm not sure what SC to use, how can I go wrong with SAM? (Esp. SAM x2.)

What do I get out of choosing a PUP over any of those at my level? Can the automaton/puppet/whatever-it's-called and PUP together put up DoT to rival DRG and its wyvern? BST + jug pet? Can the "unlimited" nuking match damage output of a BLM? Can it MB reliably?

I'll admit my experience with PUP in party has been limited (3-4 times total, Qufim and Valkrum Dunes), but for now I just don't know any good reason to invite a PUP when I can have just about any other DD job. =/ (Well, if a decked out PUP is standing before me next to a RNG using Short Bow +1 and Justice Badge, I'd take the PUP, but there's no way to see stuff like that over /search ... )

Educate me? ^_^;

p.s. Yes, I've invited BST to party as DD. (And, yes, BST + jug pet together in jungles are impressive w/out stealing hate from decent tanks.) Love DRG, too. Help me find reasons to invite PUP?

[Raydeus]

Re: Give the PUPs a chance!!!

Give the PUPs a chance!!!

NO!

Mwahahahaha




(Seriously though I've never been in a party with a PUP )

[Icemage]

Re: Give the PUPs a chance!!!

According to the fragmentary rumor I received during the NA FFXI beta back in 2003, Blue Mages were already being tested as early as mid-summer of that year.


Icemage

[Kenki]

Re: Give the PUPs a chance!!!

I don't know why would a PT get a Pup but not get a Bst? I mean, a bst has access to various powerful melee equipments with rank A- (same as Warrior) in Axe plus some powerful Bst only Axe (Warth Tabar).

Bst jug pet aren't as powerful as Bst (maybe only the expensive HQ ones) in pure damage but they are nonetheless can be as powerful as an average damage dealer (not count some pets have very powerful WS like Dark Spore from the mushroom thing or powerful status effect). Also, sometimes you will want a bst to pull on very fast monsters. Tiger pet made really good puller since they are fast. Or when there is a potential link, usually smn or brd would pull though but you don't always have them.

[Raydeus]

Re: Give the PUPs a chance!!!

According to the fragmentary rumor I received during the NA FFXI beta back in 2003, Blue Mages were already being tested as early as mid-summer of that year.


Icemage

While PUPs were a last minute adition once they realized they wouldn't be able to work with Necromancers? That would explain a lot.

[Daryn2889]

Re: Give the PUPs a chance!!!

Let's put this in more concrete terms. Words like "Give PUP's a chance" and "PUP can out damage everyone else" do not tell me very much.

I'm a RDM34, who has a small static party with a BRD34. I know we need a tank, and usually either a main healer or a backup healer (WHM, BLM/WHM, SMN/WHM, etc.). That leaves two, three spots open. If I see PUP seeking at my level, what should I ask to determine if I should invite him? What should I expect if I invite him?

If I want Fusion, MNK would be the choice for closing. For Fragmentation, WAR with Great Axe. (Or, solo Shield Break for evasive mobs.) For Distortion, I can't think of any combo beating DRG to open and THF to close. DRK is flexible enough to open or close Distortion, too, for decent damage. And, if I'm not sure what SC to use, how can I go wrong with SAM? (Esp. SAM x2.)

What do I get out of choosing a PUP over any of those at my level? Can the automaton/puppet/whatever-it's-called and PUP together put up DoT to rival DRG and its wyvern? BST + jug pet? Can the "unlimited" nuking match damage output of a BLM? Can it MB reliably?

I'll admit my experience with PUP in party has been limited (3-4 times total, Qufim and Valkrum Dunes), but for now I just don't know any good reason to invite a PUP when I can have just about any other DD job. =/ (Well, if a decked out PUP is standing before me next to a RNG using Short Bow +1 and Justice Badge, I'd take the PUP, but there's no way to see stuff like that over /search ... )

Educate me? ^_^;

p.s. Yes, I've invited BST to party as DD. (And, yes, BST + jug pet together in jungles are impressive w/out stealing hate from decent tanks.) Love DRG, too. Help me find reasons to invite PUP?

Well I never said the puppetmaster can outdamage every other job. PUPs can do damage, that's for sure, and when monk is subbed, they are even more stronger and can do WS. When equipped with the right attachments, the puppets themselves can also add to Skill chains, because I have done a Skill Chain with my puppet before. Probably the people you partied with didn't have the right attachments equipped, because I have nice attachments and I can command my puppet to use "Flash" on the mob without any MP cost, and the enthunder feature is really helpful as well with Damage. My mage puppet also casts a lot of enfeebles to aid in defeating the mob. I personally think Puppetmasters can turn the tides of battle, but personally that's what I feel.

[Raydeus]

Re: Give the PUPs a chance!!!

I don't know why would a PT get a Pup but not get a Bst? I mean, a bst has access to various powerful melee equipments with rank A- (same as Warrior) in Axe plus some powerful Bst only Axe (Warth Tabar).

QFT if you are willing to invite a PUP there's no reason not to invite a BST, the way I see it BST can do more damage than a PUP

I'm really hoping SE enhances PUP soon, since PUPs in this forum speak of how much the job feels gimped after lvl 40 or so.



Edit > Grrr too slow to get a double post edit

[Daryn2889]

Re: Give the PUPs a chance!!!

Eh Well I am not up to level 40 yet so who knows, maybe I just need more experience but I do know for a fact that it has potential and I am very eager to see what they will do with the job.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Give the PUPs a chance!!!

Well I never said the puppetmaster can outdamage every other job. PUPs can do damage, that's for sure, and when monk is subbed, they are even more stronger and can do WS.

Doesn't that mean I should get a MNK/WAR instead so I get a DD with good WS and Berserk?



There are 6 slots in a party, and only 4 are open on my RDM+BRD static. I won't reject a PUP if we have 1 DD slot left open and no one else is seeking. (Not gonna be doing /sea 32-35 all RNG to bug people not LFG.) However, it's hard to muster much kindness beyond that for PUP's... >_>;

Sympathy for a broken job, yes, but party slot in a P.U.G.? Um...


p.s. Gosh, I sound so mean. Guess I'm bitter about S-E getting me excited about PUP's introduction then dashed my hopes right after.

[Feba]

Re: Give the PUPs a chance!!!

No offense, but unless you're talking about how well a job performs at that level, it's pretty hard to tell how good a job is until 60+

[Daryn2889]

Re: Give the PUPs a chance!!!

Oh well, it's all oppinionated I guess. We'll just see how it goes in the future, but personally I don't think Puppetmasters should just be rejected.

[ItazuraNhomango]

Re: Give the PUPs a chance!!!

No offense, but unless you're talking about how well a job performs at that level, it's pretty hard to tell how good a job is until 60+

I am *only* talking about jobs at my level; how the heck would I know about anything at Lv.60?

[Feba]

Re: Give the PUPs a chance!!!

I was referring to the OP

[Daryn2889]

Re: Give the PUPs a chance!!!

I was referring to the OP

Sorry I have a lot more experience than you think. I was just giving my 2 cents, that's all. Sorry if I offended you in any way.